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 View Poll Results: What do you think about the Fairphone?

I already own a Fairphone (FP).
 
46 Vote(s)
86.79%
I ordered or consider to buy a FP.
 
5 Vote(s)
9.43%
No FP for me yet, but the idea is interesting.
 
2 Vote(s)
3.77%
Fair? Nothing in life is fair.
 
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Fairphone - Technical details, links and Q&A interaction with Fairphone [26 Jul 2014]

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By benkxda, Senior Member on 13th July 2013, 02:49 PM
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15th July 2014, 09:03 PM |#641  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _keesj

Hello Chris,



Having the kernel sources is of course only part of the problem. I did not spend time on replacing the kernel on a device but it indeed might be a little harder to replace the main kernel because there are more dependencies (loadable kernel modules) and things (ramdisks etc) that need to take place when booting. I am currently not even sure in what partition we can find the kernel. I agree that the choice for a non Open Source friendly provider (mediatek) has been a bad one. Other companies, google included, made such "wrong" decisions.

Please keep in mind that Fairphone is a project. The way I look at it is the following: The second batch is there to fulfill a need (Open Source was apparently not the primary one) and provide some sustainability to the company. Do not buy this phone if you want to own a phone where you have access to the source and can install "custom roms". While I do not give up it is not a risk a paying customer needs to take. Fixing this mistake is high on the agenda and I, as software developer, would never have joined a company with no "source code" without the conviction that we can fix this issue, possibly with different hardware, in the future.

It would be nice to "fix" the problem for Fairphone owners who bought the device expecting it to be open source any suggestions?

Open source still will not be the primary goals of the project and other things on the software side like security and privacy might have an impact on how hackable the phones will be. I personally want a "N900" like developer friendly phone with proper security.

I would like to know what you expect in terms of this xda community(I am quite new to xda and forums in general). How does one support the developer's community?

Hi,

thanks for your response. I appreciate the fairphone project as such and their primary goals. That's why I bought one.

Just release the proper kernel sources and write a few lines doc how to build them properly. That's not asked too much: this is in fact an obligation by GPL. Otherwise you could just release any sources and claim that they are "the" sources. Again: I am not saying that fairphone violate GPL or anything else. I just think that they should do an effort in that direction. Maybe I just made a building mistake and the stuff works fine?

Chris

EDIT: And concerning your question how else can you help devs:
- Serial Console: Is there a way to enable serial console on the fairphone? This is extremly helpful when people will try to write/upgrade/debug the kernel and it doesn't boot up.
- Bootloader: is it possible to add fastboot? There are MTK 6589 devices that have fastboot (e.g. wiko stairway). That's __very__ handy.
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15th July 2014, 09:22 PM |#642  
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Hi,
just to add to the discussion, as to me as a non-developer, it looked promising: did you ever have a look at this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2636257 ?
By the way, to me as a batch 2-buyer, this topic around mtk and not having a community-supportable device in the future scares me quite a bit, I would have waited for the third batch if I had known about this issue and to not buy it. (Just to add another argument)
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16th July 2014, 07:22 AM |#643  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrmhoffmann

EDIT: And concerning your question how else can you help devs:
- Serial Console: Is there a way to enable serial console on the fairphone? This is extremly helpful when people will try to write/upgrade/debug the kernel and it doesn't boot up.
- Bootloader: is it possible to add fastboot? There are MTK 6589 devices that have fastboot (e.g. wiko stairway). That's __very__ handy.

It is good to remember *I* don't have the sources!
About serial console. The first thing to do is to enable the Linux framebuffer and output the serial to the framebufffer. In my experience this will be enough to discover what is wrong with your kernel.

Having fastboot would be nice as it would allow to upgrade without special MTK tools. Fastboot normally depends on a non u-boot bootloader as the u-boot support for fastboot is bad. I have looked at the partitioning scheme used on our devices and this is all but trivial. There are hidden partitions and non standard partitioning schemes (the ebr1 and ebr2) and special checks using the scatter files so I currently do no assume it is easy to just "enable" fastboot but I will ask. Using DFU might also be an option. I would like a recovery with a Linux fastboot gadget driver. Is there such a thing?
16th July 2014, 08:11 AM |#644  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _kees

Open source still will not be the primary goals of the project and other things on the software side like security and privacy might have an impact on how hackable the phones will be.

Maybe I got you wrong but, are you saying that it will be hard to get both the source, and a privacy-friendly/secure device ?

I would say it work the other way around. If the source get delivered, the port of some secure & privacy friendly OS like replicant will be much more easier.
(actually seeing how mediateck is reluctante to deliver the sources, I am starting to have some thought on what they want to hide, and how unprivacy-friendly and unsecure these sources are)


Quote:
Originally Posted by uedrant

I would have waited for the third batch if I had known about this issue and to not buy it

Yeah Fairphone was also manipulative for it's first batch
-> I bought a smartphone for some price but in the shope, once i hade made my choice, there was some weird price increase to pay for taxes and delivery. Since I hade no way to select other options a fairer sailer would have displayed the real price right from the start. (Hopefully i ordered no charger, earplugs nor did I use paypall --'
-> Even for fairphone 1, they kept advertising it as an "if you can't open, you don't own it" phone even thought it was alread very clearly said in this thread that the open source support would be very bad beause of mediatek

(btw you can probably cancel your order if that's what you want)
16th July 2014, 09:23 AM |#645  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreThanADev

Maybe I got you wrong but, are you saying that it will be hard to get both the source, and a privacy-friendly/secure device ?

What I mean is that we might make it a little harder to install custom mods on the phone e.g. requiring a "oem unlock" like mechanism to prevent malicious actions and this can sometimes be seen as developer unfriendly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreThanADev

(btw you can probably cancel your order if that's what you want)

That is certainly an option and as I said depending on the purpose of the phone this might be the best thing to do. I would hope we can find better solutions, dropping the Fair for the Open is also not very nice. Many buyers of the phone are really happy with the phone and do not want to modify a single thing. My *guess* is that there is a market for second hand or refurbished Fairphones and that their value will not decrease as fast as for normal phones.
17th July 2014, 03:22 PM |#646  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _keesj

Having fastboot would be nice as it would allow to upgrade without special MTK tools. Fastboot normally depends on a non u-boot bootloader as the u-boot support for fastboot is bad. I have looked at the partitioning scheme used on our devices and this is all but trivial. There are hidden partitions and non standard partitioning schemes (the ebr1 and ebr2) and special checks using the scatter files so I currently do no assume it is easy to just "enable" fastboot but I will ask. Using DFU might also be an option. I would like a recovery with a Linux fastboot gadget driver. Is there such a thing?

The code for fastboot (LK little kernel) is already on the phone but entering fastboot is phone specific. Other phones use the camera button but we don't have that either.
22nd July 2014, 04:05 PM |#647  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _keesj

Doing a few more weeks of development would possibly allow us to include more features in the build (mostly taken from this forum) and possibly find workaround the gapps problems.

A few weeks are somehow over.
Any news or updates about the next update @keesj ?



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23rd July 2014, 10:39 AM |#648  
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Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by haiag

A few weeks are somehow over.
Any news or updates about the next update @keesj ?



Sent from my FP1 using XDA Free mobile app

Yes things are looking good. We will to push an update next week. This will include a few requests from here:
-VOIP calling
-The GPS/SMS = bugfix
-A fix for CVE-2014-0224 OpenSSL
-Lower logcat output and possibly the bluetooth
-GPS fixes (using a different ntp server) and I still hope a fixed EPO downloader.

Currently trying to push the bluetooth fix.

Last week we also finalized the partition upgrader. But before we can push that one we need to push an updated updater that warns users to create a backup.
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23rd July 2014, 12:33 PM |#649  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _keesj


Last week we also finalized the partition upgrader. But before we can push that one we need to push an updated updater that warns users to create a backup.

So there won't be a built-in backup function?
The user is responsible by himself?

Will the future updates work without partition uprgader?


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23rd July 2014, 01:06 PM |#650  
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@_keesj
Are you aware of the sms send bug? I mean that it is no possible to send a bulk sms to about 30 recipients. Because of the security system which is blocking this function.

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23rd July 2014, 02:01 PM |#651  
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Package 3: Linux Kernel Source Code
We've uploaded Package 3 of the Fairphone OS Source Code to our Software Downloads section.

Here's the direct download link of the package (170 MB; .gz file).

Please give us your experiences and feedback here!


Cheers,

Joe
FP Community Manager
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