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HTC models with GPS: abnormal battery drainage in standby

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By BusterTyTN, Senior Member on 23rd February 2008, 02:04 PM
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29th September 2008, 12:40 PM |#251  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterTyTN

The battery drain problem described here is unaffected by the above "tweaks".

Buster

Buster, you should know better because you re the boss here)))



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30th September 2008, 08:34 PM |#252  
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My Battery Usage
I bought a "lightly used tilt" from e-bay two weeks ago ($230 + shipping). I was leary about buying a used phone off of e-bay, but was happily surprised to see that it was in nearly perfect shape (looks brand new) and everything in working order . Only issue is the battery drain, which I am very disappointed with. I cannot get it to last through the day without running out of battery. I bought and installed a brand new OEM (Samsung 1350mAH) battery yesterday to see if it would help. Nope ! Here's my phone and battery usage for today:

7:00am; Removed from charger (100% battery), enabled WiFi for 5 minutes to download weather, turned WiFi off, did a soft reset, checked task manager & found no programs running, all data connections disabled (using MoDaCo NoData program), WiFi off, bluetooth off, phone enabled, put in standby mode.

10:00am; Made 15 minute phone call ("E" displayed in upper bar). Checked battery status...down to 76%! Placed back into standby mode.

11:30am; Started map program & GPS, used for 10 minutes while driving to lunch. Did soft reset, then placed back into standby mode.

2:00pm; Turned on to check battery status. It's down to 51%!!!!!

So, I've used half of my battery in 7 hours of what I consider very light use. Shouldn't be the GPS problem b/c I reset immediately after using the GPS. Today's usage is typical and by 5pm it is usually down to 20% so I plug it in as soon as I get home from work.

NOTES: Installed the AT&T WM 6.1 ROM (from the HTC website) last week. Skipped "bloatware". Installed Kaiser Tweaks and enabled the four "power management" options. Also turned call waiting notification off per the post above. I don't have a data plan thus have disabled all GPRS data with MoDaCo NoData program and modifying the Media Net Access Point Name. Also have MediaNet, GPRS, HSDPA, and "WiFi Standby Mode" disabled in Kaiser Tweaks. Back of phone is room temperature (doesn't feel hot at all).

UPDATE: 3:45pm; Turned on to check battery status. Down to 43%. So, used 8% in less than two hours. Lets see, 8% of 1350mAH is 108mAH, divided by two hours is 54mAH average current draw while in standby with everything disabled except the phone. NOT GOOD!
15th October 2008, 09:27 PM |#253  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NZuercher

I bought a "lightly used tilt" from e-bay two weeks ago ($230 + shipping).Also have MediaNet, GPRS, HSDPA, and "WiFi Standby Mode" disabled in Kaiser Tweaks. Back of phone is room temperature (doesn't feel hot at all).

...[cut]...

UPDATE: 3:45pm; Turned on to check battery status. Down to 43%. So, used 8% in less than two hours. Lets see, 8% of 1350mAH is 108mAH, divided by two hours is 54mAH average current draw while in standby with everything disabled except the phone. NOT GOOD!

Right, not good... you did many things which should have put back your phone to near-zero consumption, without success. I hate saying so, but the conclusion is that you may have bought a defective "Tilt".

Buster
29th October 2008, 05:01 AM |#254  
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I installed alot of programs on my mini SD. I wonder if that drains the battery quicker..
8th December 2008, 10:46 AM |#255  
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Buster,

This is a long thread, so excuse if you've published the figures I'm after somewhere in here.

Have you got your own figures when your phone is in "good condition" that show the difference in current coming out of standby for 3G and G connection no other apps running.

I like many others arrive at threads like this because we didn't have a problem before but one has arisen.

Although I can't confirm that I have experienced any such GPS problem increasingly I noticed that my phone failed to start up and this was sometime after a GPS trip .. perhaps. The last time (a few days ago I decided to get to the bottom of it), especially as I was finding in the morning it had discharged when it had enough power to last the night.

The symptoms: Pick the phone up (once it was in flight mode so this could be the problem you're describing), it reboots and powers down before it finishes booting. After applying a charge I noted the battery level was around 13%, enough to have booted.

So on to some tests which probably show that if I had a GPS problem it's wasn't present on the tests however, this is what I found.

------------------------
3G turned on coming out of standby typically 120 - 175ma recorded.
Left in standby around 15 mins will drop by 1-2% easily.

G turned on coming out of standby typically 4 - 7ma. That's good.
Left in standby for 15 mins 0% drop in fact over 4 - 5 hours only 1% drop recorded.
------------------------

OK so the GPS problem isn't there at the time but I'm surprised nevertheless because I've never turned 3G off and didn't notice any real issues in the past.
I did do some GPS toggling before these test so may have kicked it out of the bug and I've also done the tests after a hard reset to factory defaults. No difference between my set up and factory set up.

Currently searching all the threads and depending on how much drain one experiences it appears that the problem could well be any of the following.

1) Your GPS problem
2) Motherboard failure (according to HTC's own service manual I can eliminate this as they state that standby current must be under 6ma and idle under 65ma)
3) Radio version (which probably includes reports of wm6 and wm6.1 performing differently)
4) Battery getting tired. (At least one person has reported attrocious battery consumption on a refurb unit from HTC and excellent once the battery was replaced)
5) Possible use of non HTC car chargers. (reports of actual damage to just won't charge with some leads)

I'm now trying to quantify the drain I'm seeing. With G on it's very good with 3G it's not so good but may not account for the problems I saw on occasions where it wouldn't start up wouldn't charge in the car (red light) etc.

I see threads where people claim 10% loss over 4-5 hours of normal use - of course we need to know what normal use is but I'm talking standby here not usage. I'll easily lose that just on Sb if 3G is on. A lot of varied results to be frank.

So one question I'd like to ask you is that when you've established that the GPS bug isn't present in your device what is your 3G standby current?

I have at least established that my hardware is ok but I haven't eliminated problems 4 and 5 above. 5 is worrying because I use a generic charger. It's always worked fine but on two occasions I used someone elses and it went red light on me and didn't charge at all. This could be because pin-outs vary or some other reason. It could also be because (when I've experienced it ) the HTC wouldn't turn on so the battery was too low and this could actually be normal behaviour, ie you need to use mains when it gets this low.

My brother tells me if he's got usb charge off when syncing his won't charge - I've always had that on so can't confirm with my generic charger.

Of course the possiblity of battery getting tired is a possible explanation of the machine refusing to pull up with 10 -13% power but first I want to establish some figures here and I'm sure if I come across the GPS bug my current will rise regardless of phone connection.
1st January 2009, 07:27 AM |#256  
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I bought a second-hand tilt and I am experiencing the same thing. Do you have any solutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZuercher

I bought a "lightly used tilt" from e-bay two weeks ago ($230 + shipping). I was leary about buying a used phone off of e-bay, but was happily surprised to see that it was in nearly perfect shape (looks brand new) and everything in working order . Only issue is the battery drain, which I am very disappointed with. I cannot get it to last through the day without running out of battery. I bought and installed a brand new OEM (Samsung 1350mAH) battery yesterday to see if it would help. Nope ! Here's my phone and battery usage for today:

7:00am; Removed from charger (100% battery), enabled WiFi for 5 minutes to download weather, turned WiFi off, did a soft reset, checked task manager & found no programs running, all data connections disabled (using MoDaCo NoData program), WiFi off, bluetooth off, phone enabled, put in standby mode.

10:00am; Made 15 minute phone call ("E" displayed in upper bar). Checked battery status...down to 76%! Placed back into standby mode.

11:30am; Started map program & GPS, used for 10 minutes while driving to lunch. Did soft reset, then placed back into standby mode.

2:00pm; Turned on to check battery status. It's down to 51%!!!!!

So, I've used half of my battery in 7 hours of what I consider very light use. Shouldn't be the GPS problem b/c I reset immediately after using the GPS. Today's usage is typical and by 5pm it is usually down to 20% so I plug it in as soon as I get home from work.

NOTES: Installed the AT&T WM 6.1 ROM (from the HTC website) last week. Skipped "bloatware". Installed Kaiser Tweaks and enabled the four "power management" options. Also turned call waiting notification off per the post above. I don't have a data plan thus have disabled all GPRS data with MoDaCo NoData program and modifying the Media Net Access Point Name. Also have MediaNet, GPRS, HSDPA, and "WiFi Standby Mode" disabled in Kaiser Tweaks. Back of phone is room temperature (doesn't feel hot at all).

UPDATE: 3:45pm; Turned on to check battery status. Down to 43%. So, used 8% in less than two hours. Lets see, 8% of 1350mAH is 108mAH, divided by two hours is 54mAH average current draw while in standby with everything disabled except the phone. NOT GOOD!

22nd January 2009, 12:32 AM |#257  
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I've exactly the same problem. I read along the whole thread and am I right that there is still no solution yet? Did I miss anything?
The sad thing is that I own a HTC Touch HD and this problem is still existing!!!
3rd February 2009, 10:37 AM |#258  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoTheo

I've exactly the same problem. I read along the whole thread and am I right that there is still no solution yet? Did I miss anything?
The sad thing is that I own a HTC Touch HD and this problem is still existing!!!

Thats right. I'm living with it somehow, but decided to avoid an HTC phone next time. Too many bugs I was wrestling with, and way too much ignorance by HTC. I am under the impression that these nice guys simply snake their way through the lifetime of their products.

I was able to fix a few bugs via a ROM update, most other problems are standing issues. Rectified: Long GPS fix time. Unresolved: GPS induced battery drainage in standby, inability to include own messages when forwarding emails, inability to move messages between accounts, frequent lockups of keys / touchscreen (the delay issue) and so on and so forth. Well, maybe one or the other can be fixed some day, but over all: this thing is a pain in the neck.

@louiscar (sorry for the late answer):

Quote, "Pick the phone up (once it was in flight mode so this could be the problem you're describing), it reboots and powers down before it finishes booting. After applying a charge I noted the battery level was around 13%, enough to have booted" --
This is because the internal monitoring of the battery charge loses track if the current in shutdown is increased, I already wrote about it elsewhere. In this case the battery charge percentage seems to step down by 1% every 30 secs or so. If the battery is already totally down you may either see nothing, or the failing reboot as you described above.
(if you got sufficient residual charge).

Regarding 3G standby current - I think I checked this once. If so, you should find it somewhere inside this thread. Please have a look.

Buster
19th June 2009, 11:31 AM |#259  
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Is a softreset fixing this GPS problem? For me its not...but maybe its not what i have trouble with.

I have nothing running at all and out of standby 40mA. Battery is down over night. "Runtime" equals "Time Since Last Softreset".

So maybe i have this GPS problem. My phone is the Xperia. And i have no idea whats preventing a proper standby.
17th November 2010, 06:13 AM |#260  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterTyTN

This thread refers to cases where the HTC Kaiser (and probably other HTC phone models with the same built-in GPS chip, such as Polaris) sucks the battery empty within a single day, particularly during standby, particularly if all features of the phone are DISABLED, or after low usage. Another symptom may be a phone which unexpectedly did not come back to life, but operated normally after recharging. Yet another symptom is unusually short battery life through normal use. Note, this thread is not about limited battery endurance due to heavy usage.


*** Battery drain FAQ ***

How can I see whether my Kaiser is affected?
- A large percentage of HTC phones with Qualcomm chipset and internal GPS seems to suffer from the bug described here, some appear to be robust enough, likely depending on chip revisions. If you never ever use GPS, you are probably out of risk. If you use GPS at least occasionally, you should have a look at your phone, and closely. It is possible that an otherwise normal to heavy use of the phone conceals a basic, added current consumption which is what we are talking about here. In such a situation you may have got used to a certain battery endurance, which may be much higher under normal circumstances. So far I observed currents between 28 and 78 mA, depending on DUT and OS. Some users reported currents in excess of 100mA. Note, this added current does nothing for you, except accelerate your battery drain!

How to check this?
- Check the true standby current (see the following description). That simple.

How to measure the standby current?
- Clean up: switch all phone features off (GPS, Phone, Bluetooth, Media Player, really everything). Terminate all applications, use Task Manager to verify this. Make sure no processor intensive background tasks are running (standard installations should meet this requirement). Do NOT soft reset at this point!
- Put the phone in standby, and wait approx. 10 seconds. The phone needs a while to complete entering the standby though it appears to be off immediately.
- Now measure the current. Best and fastest way of doing it would be to have a current meter connected between your battery and your phone which gives you realtime readouts. Second to that is a suitable battery tool, such as "BatteryStatus", but you have to get used to the delayed current display (see post #4 for details). Using the software battery gauge, you should wait an additional 20 seconds or so to allow for the current capture, then reactivate from standby and take the lowest possible current readout.
- If the phone is in a good condition, the standby current must be in the range 1..3 mA, roughly. If you see a repeatable current well in excess of 20mA, your phone is in the BAD condition !!
- Another simple method is to leave the cleaned up phone in standby overnight. Next morning, soft reset your phone because the phone may have lost track of the battery capacity. Check whether the capacity dropped dramatically. And also check whether the phone feels warm to the touch.

How to reproduce the problem?
- Activate GPS until you get a fix. Probably receiving the first NMEA strings is good enough, but I have not verified this. GPSTest, HTC's GPS Tool or any navigation software does the job.
- Deactivate GPS. Just to be safe, terminate the GPS software, too.
- Check the standby current.
- The fault does not pop up always, so you may have to repeat these steps several times until it appears. The phones I tested usually catch fever after only one or two tries, but it is possible that you need to cycle through this procedure 5 or 10 times. Which is in the nature of intermittent bugs.

How to reset this nasty condition?
- Fault recovery is possible by continued on/off cycling of the GPS unit, similar to what provoked this fault.
- Activating the cellphone unit does also seem to cause the phone to return to a low consumption, but maybe not in all cases.
- Try to soft reset your phone, or to cycle the power to the phone (long press of the power button).
- If you really cannot get rid of the problem, back up your phone data, then execute a hard reset. BEFORE restoring the phone, load a battery gauge software and see whether the consumption is gone. If yes, some application is likely to cause your headaches.

After performing one of the above steps you may repeat the described current measurement, to confirm that the standby current is back in the normal range.



***********************

Original text:

I have reason to believe that all Kaiser models are prone to the "excessive standby current consumption" problem. I tried it on two original "VPA compact V" by Vodafone (= HTC Kaiser), using the original WM6, ROM 1.56.162.5, Radio 1.27.12.11. I gave a **** on warranty now, stepped up through HardSPL to "Duttys_Official_WM6.1_Rom_5.2.19716_UC.zip", Radio 1.64.08.21. The results are all the same: an excessive current consumption which can vary between 25 and 75 mA. Interestingly, the current is always the same in a specific setup, but varies between phones and operating systems. In the latest case, the same phone took 28mA under WM6, went up to 78mA under WM61. Consequence being, the battery will be sucked empty within a day or so, without obvious reason. The only mitigation is a reset, or a complete switch-off.

There is no application which could cause the current consumption, at least none I installed. It does not even matter which GPS application you used. The only active processes are (according to TaskManager, latest WM6.1 version, ".exe" omitted for the sake of ease): filesys, device, biotouch, gwes, shell32, cprog, services, quickdial, connmgr, mediahubmini, taskmgr, htcactionscreen, sapsettings, aplauncher, quickmenu, nk. I repeat: ALL applications properly terminated, ALL internal units are OFF (WLAN, Bluetooth, Phone, GPRS, GPS, Camera, Media Player etc. - really NOTHING).

Before anybody prematurely states that these findings can not be reproduced: the problem is unlikely to appear if you switch on the GPS for a couple of NMEA strings, then off again (though it did already). If need be, you have to leave it on for a while, play a bit, walk around a bit and so on. Take your time testing it _thoroughly_, really. I cannot tell when the fault actually appears, and it may not come up immediately because it seems somewhat sporadic in nature - but take my word, it will, I observed this issue for a long enough time. I can only repeat myself: I am sure there is something wrong with the power management in the GPS driver.

Anybody, feel free to contribute, but PLEASE avoid funny statements like "you have to shut down all programs", "WLAN can take up lots of energy" and so on. And before you express doubts just because there are not quite many people out there who come to the same conclusions, think again. Without going into details, most users are simply not in the position to come to the correct conclusions.

BusterTyTN

i dont understand really, but will this FIX the battery drainage? and, for how long? at least to power off? and than it's suckng the battery empty again? or what?

i dont really understand the text, i am a dutch person!
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