Windows 8 sucks for desktops....

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SixSixSevenSeven

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Dec 26, 2012
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Your u925t isn't customised. Its running the standard windows 8 we all have so yes I do know what I am talking about. Nothing changes the fact that it is dead easy to get at your settings.

Besides, classic menu whatever its called. Or start8. Personally I did the same as netham and "learnt" to use start. I say learnt, it took less than 5 minutes. Hell Microsoft have tons of videos if you need them.
 
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stevedebi

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Sep 7, 2005
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SixSixSevenSeven said:
Your u925t isn't customised. Its running the standard windows 8 we all have so yes I do know what I am talking about. Nothing changes the fact that it is dead easy to get at your settings.

Besides, classic menu whatever its called. Or start8. Personally I did the same as netham and "learnt" to use start. I say learnt, it took less than 5 minutes. Hell Microsoft have tons of videos if you need them.
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Let's try it another way. What benefit does the "metro" side of Windows 8 have for a desktop user?

EDIT: Note that the u925 is a convertible, and I use the "metro" interface all the time when in tablet mode. I'm just discussing the Windows 8 as a desktop platform.
 
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tonyeltigre

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
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SixSixSevenSeven said:
system settings are dead easy to get at, no idea wtf you are on about.

Move your cursor to the bottom left of the screen so the start hotspot appears, right click it, control panel is on there already. That took a quick mouse movement, a right click and a left click.

Or press the windows key to hop over to the start screen, start typing any phrase and search automatically pops up, just start typing control and it will list control panel immediately. So that's 1 key press, a few more keys to type, 1 click.

Or open the charms bar. Click settings. Control panel.

All 3 of those were rocket science and made it incredibly difficult to open control panel. It was also completely unintuitive to assume that it would list control panel in search (if you count that search is also on the charm bar that's a 4th method).

5th method still. I have a group of start tiles for system maintenance, one of those is control panel.

The first method is no harder than windows 7. The others are just obvious.
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How are any of those more intuitive than clicking start->control panel (2 clicks) or windows key->control panel (1 keystroke 1 click)

I would argue it's much more intuitive and far less disruptive to work flow to stay in a single environment (not going to the metro screen) and accessing the info. It's also far more intuitive to click on an a button instead of finding a start hotspot, right clicking then finding your selection.

Every example you posted is more clicks and key strokes than any previous version of Windows. Any finding the control panel was no part of my complaint about Windows 8 (thanks for making it for me), my only issue with the control panel is it takes you out of the metro workflow and runs in desktop mode and that is clearly disjointed.
 
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netham45

Inactive Recognized Developer
Jun 24, 2009
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stevedebi said:
Let's try it another way. What benefit does the "metro" side of Windows 8 have for a desktop user?

EDIT: Note that the u925 is a convertible, and I use the "metro" interface all the time when in tablet mode. I'm just discussing the Windows 8 as a desktop platform.
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More applications, faster and more centralized searching, more information at a glance. What downsides does Metro bring?
 
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tonyeltigre

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Mar 4, 2008
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netham45 said:
More applications, faster and more centralized searching, more information at a glance. What downsides does Metro bring?
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Which applications only exist in metro that are pertinent to a non touch device? Because I have never used a metro app more than once

What were you missing through the previous version of search? I have never been blown away by metro search, especially considering you are rarely in the metro environment from the desktop. If anything going to metro to search is a productivity killer because it takes you from your workflow.

What information at a glance wasn't available previous to metro? email notifications have always been available, canned news and weather at a glance isn't very useful and if you enjoy it has always been available.


This thread of full of metro downsides, just read a couple pages if you would like some examples.
 
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stevedebi

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2005
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netham45 said:
More applications, faster and more centralized searching, more information at a glance. What downsides does Metro bring?
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Downside: The lack of a coherent, desktop centered interface is the downside for a desktop only machine. One is expected to flip back and forth from a desktop interface to a tablet interface, while using a mouse no less.

Downside: Extra computer code and memory use that has no purpose on a desktop only machine. Basically, MS put what should have been a phone and tablet only interface in a desktop. They should have put in the capability to not use one or the other - except that they couldn't; the "metro" OS would not be able to function without the desktop at this point. I suppose in theory the desktop could function without "metro", but it still can't be removed. In my mind this forcing of the tablet interface makes the OS more bloated than it has to be.

I never used Windows 7 search; Agent Ransack is my recommended search - it works absolutely great.
 
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netham45

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stevedebi said:
Downside: The lack of a coherent, desktop centered interface is the downside for a desktop only machine. One is expected to flip back and forth from a desktop interface to a tablet interface, while using a mouse no less.
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Having used Metro enough to know it's ins and outs I fail to see how switching to it is such a productivity killer. Do you open up Metro and just stare at it like a deer in the headlights for 30 seconds before continuing? I know I don't, it's just another menu to me.

stevedebi said:
Downside: Extra computer code and memory use that has no purpose on a desktop only machine. Basically, MS put what should have been a phone and tablet only interface in a desktop. They should have put in the capability to not use one or the other - except that they couldn't; the "metro" OS would not be able to function without the desktop at this point. I suppose in theory the desktop could function without "metro", but it still can't be removed. In my mind this forcing of the tablet interface makes the OS more bloated than it has to be.
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What, you can't spare 50MB of RAM to load Metro? Unless you're using 100% of RAM a majority of the time that point is moot. And, if you are, buy more RAM. It's cheap as dirt; I got 32GB for like $110.
 
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stevedebi

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Sep 7, 2005
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netham45 said:
Having used Metro enough to know it's ins and outs I fail to see how switching to it is such a productivity killer. Do you open up Metro and just stare at it like a deer in the headlights for 30 seconds before continuing? I know I don't, it's just another menu to me.


What, you can't spare 50MB of RAM to load Metro? Unless you're using 100% of RAM a majority of the time that point is moot. And, if you are, buy more RAM. It's cheap as dirt; I got 32GB for like $110.
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The point is that the metro interface has no purpose being there. MS is pushing stuff into the desktop that has no point or purpose for the desktop user.

As to RAM, that isn't the issue; it adds complexity to the code that does not need to be there. (although RAM is an issue for most laptops, which often still max out at 8 Mb).
 
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tonyeltigre

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Mar 4, 2008
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netham45 said:
Having used Metro enough to know it's ins and outs I fail to see how switching to it is such a productivity killer. Do you open up Metro and just stare at it like a deer in the headlights for 30 seconds before continuing? I know I don't, it's just another menu to me.
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It's the change in environments, why go from editing a document in desktop, into the metro ui, search and back to the desktop when you just could have searched from the desktop otherwise.

netham45 said:
What, you can't spare 50MB of RAM to load Metro? Unless you're using 100% of RAM a majority of the time that point is moot. And, if you are, buy more RAM. It's cheap as dirt; I got 32GB for like $110.
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Ram is not the issue, uneeded tasks running in the backgroud, programs that can only be killed at the task manager and additional processor load are bigger issues. But really the point he was making was simply that Metro is unneeded, it only adds steps and lacks function for desktop users so what is the point.

(I would like to see the deal you got on RAM. 4x8gb sticks of generic ****ty ram will cost you $200.)
 
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netham45

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Jun 24, 2009
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tonyeltigre said:
It's the change in environments, why go from editing a document in desktop, into the metro ui, search and back to the desktop when you just could have searched from the desktop otherwise.



Ram is not the issue, uneeded tasks running in the backgroud, programs that can only be killed at the task manager and additional processor load are bigger issues. But really the point he was making was simply that Metro is unneeded, it only adds steps and lacks function for desktop users so what is the point.

(I would like to see the deal you got on RAM. 4x8gb sticks of generic ****ty ram will cost you $200.)
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I don't see how a change in the environments is so jarring, it's really fluent if you just learn how to use it.

If an ARM tablet can handle Metro then any modern computer can handle the extra threads that Metro runs when backgrounded. You're basically arguing that a car shouldn't have AC in Alaska because you'll never use it and the compressor is just extra weight that wastes gas. It's so insignificant that you'll gain nothing by pulling it out. Also, the Start Menu took RAM too. I don't have figures, but I would be willing to bet that the old start menu took about as much RAM as the Metro start menu. I'd make the same wager on CPU usage, especially when they're not in use.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006XB56VI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That's the RAM I've got. Runs great for me and I would hardly call Corsair generic and ****ty.

Edit: It appears that that item was edited since I bought it. It used to be 2x8GB.

More edit: Nevermind, they were always 1x8GB, they just used to cost like $29/stick instead of $50/stick.
 
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GoodDayToDie

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Jan 20, 2011
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Search is actually the one area I feel Metro is really a downgrade; what used to be a single centralized Start search is now segregated into Apps/Settings/Files. That's my only real gripe about Metro - possible because it's damn near the only aspect of Metro that I use.

Now, do I wish that MS had spent the man-hours they expended on Win8 Metro on improving Win8 desktop instead? Yeah, I suppose I do... but, regardless of whether I find it more useful that a pile of dog **** or not, Metro *is* appreciated by a large number of the unwashed masses who inhabit this planet and (somewhat unfortunately to those of us who prefer our machines free of botnet-generated spam email) use PCs. From that perspective, even though this initial PC incarnation is, in fact, pretty awful... I think it's good that they have taken those steps.

Does it bother me to have it on the desktop? Not in the least, because it's optional and I don't use it. I also don't use Sound Recorder, Telnet server (or client), IIS, ODBC control panel, Print Management, SQl Server, Office for Mac, Bing Desktop, Windows Movie Maker, the Language Bar, or a huge number of other Microsoft products (including many that are built into Windows). Am I upset that Microsoft spent resources on them? No, not really at all.
 
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SixSixSevenSeven

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Dec 26, 2012
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Search on the start bar used to segregate into programs and files too....

I find metro search alot easier. Just tap windows key and type, windows 7 it would on random occasion decide that although I just opened the start bar, it would not automatically focus the search bar. And then it took at least 3 or 4 times as long to find anything compared to on windows 8 where it seems to be instant, and I only had an 80gb hard disk under windows 7, got a 750gb one at the same time as getting windows 8 and now have about 400 used so although its not as much data as you guys may ir may not have, its more than the windows 7 search had to cope with.
 
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GoodDayToDie

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Jan 20, 2011
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No. It would group items by category but it did not segregate them; all results were shown in one view, and the first result was always the one selected. On Win8, it will only show you results from the current category, even if there *are* no results in that category. Switching between categories takes a significant number of keystrokes and they aren't keystrokes you usually make while typing.

If the event you described in Win7 truly happened, you had some very odd and buggy version. I've been using NT6-based Windows versions since before Vista's public beta, and I have never once seen the behavior you describe (this is across more computers that I care to think of, I stopped counting at 20 distinct ones that I've used for substantial periods of time).
 
JihadSquad

JihadSquad

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Oct 5, 2011
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GoodDayToDie said:
No. It would group items by category but it did not segregate them; all results were shown in one view, and the first result was always the one selected. On Win8, it will only show you results from the current category, even if there *are* no results in that category. Switching between categories takes a significant number of keystrokes and they aren't keystrokes you usually make while typing.
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While I agree that the splitting of search results made it a little harder to use, if you ignore the fact that the new interface is Metro you get a start menu that is simply much bigger than the old one. This is what I use on my laptop with a 1600x900 resolution. I am sure that with a 1080p+ display you can get way more icons there, and what I have is way more than the amount windows 7 showed.

Additionally, you can arrange the icons however you want, so you can hit winkey and know exactly where to click to get to your program.
 
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tonyeltigre

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
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netham45 said:
I don't see how a change in the environments is so jarring, it's really fluent if you just learn how to use it.
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It's less fluent than a menu existing in your current environment. That's the whole issue, you are offering no benefit to non touch users and an added layer of minutia.

netham45 said:
If an ARM tablet can handle Metro then any modern computer can handle the extra threads that Metro runs when backgrounded. You're basically arguing that a car shouldn't have AC in Alaska because you'll never use it and the compressor is just extra weight that wastes gas. It's so insignificant that you'll gain nothing by pulling it out. Also, the Start Menu took RAM too. I don't have figures, but I would be willing to bet that the old start menu took about as much RAM as the Metro start menu. I'd make the same wager on CPU usage, especially when they're not in use.
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An ARM tablet can handle metro because it can't run Battlefield 3, Vent, WMP and Chrome at the same time. You aren't processing video compression or batch modifying large photos. On a normal desktop computer you spend a decent amount of time with your resources maxed out regardless of your specs.

To use your analogy, sure you can put an AC on a car in Alaska because your car in Alaska doesn't operate under load. You would never see a track car with AC because small drags in power magnify under load.

There is no way possible that the entire metro ui uses less resources than the Windows 7 start menu, especially since I always ran Win7 in classic mode.

netham45 said:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006XB56VI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 That's the RAM I've got. Runs great for me and I would hardly call Corsair generic and ****ty.

Edit: It appears that that item was edited since I bought it. It used to be 2x8GB.
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Still a good deal! Looks like you caught them on a technicality!
 
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    master.peterm
    master.peterm
    lets be honest here.... the metro UI looks nice and all, but without a touch screen its completely out of place.. Keyboard and mouse interfaces have traditionally been vertical, you move through web pages vertically, you scroll through lists vertically, but metro UI is horizontal, scrolling down to turn right isn't quite intuitive....

    and yea Ive done the "hack" to bring back the old start menu, but if you do that the metro UI kinda trips out plus thats the whole point of using windows 8 versus windows 7...

    ... worst thing was I deleted my Ubuntu partition to use it, but in a couple of days I think I'm gonna get the Ubuntu 11.10 beta 2 and delete windows 8
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    link68759
    I'm apprehensive to keep replying to this thread, because of the blind hatred that is almost always accompanied with a painful amount of ignorance... and any comment I make is quickly buried by more blather. Yet, here I am again. I guess I just can't muster the strength to resist correcting wrongs on the internet. Oh well, maybe I'll learn with time. :)

    I read on one of microsoft's developer blogs that the metro start menu is fullscreen primarily because it allows you to visualize what you have access to. It's also finger friendly, and a whole lot better than 7's start menu that is confined to that little box (XP's was better because it allowed the box to expand across the screen). This makes sense. You should be happy that they are making the start menu more efficient, stop whining.

    About tiles; a lot of the people in this thread seem to think that the introduction of tiles equals less user control, or dumbing down the system. Where do you get that idea? Adding a UI layer does not dumb down the whole OS, as it does not change anything about it OS; it is an entirely new UI that doesn't really replace any functionality. If you try to argue that the metro UI as replacing the pinnable area in the 7 start menu, then this is much an improvement: the pins update to give you information without you having to open whatever it launches.

    I personally hate widgets; I want to use them because I love the idea of getting information on my desktop, but they cover my wallpaper which I like to have a clear view of. Tiles are perfect; no stupid UI or complex themes, no round edges that don't fit together. Information that's nice and neat, that is a separate UI element from the desktop, so my wallpaper isn't covered. I like it.
    I have previously mentioned that the biggest reason people hate live tiles is because they don't know how to use them, or how to properly embrace the system. These would be the people who shut their ears and shout nonsense at the first sign of change. It's incredibly annoying, would you stop?

    The only valid arguments against tiles are the ones that point out the inefficient text size. Yes, it could stand to get customizable text sizes and perhaps a few tweaks to accommodate more text information (though I can appreciate that the reasons for the limits; this is supposed to be a preview of content, not the entirety of the content, and we shouldn't start asking for entire articles or books to scroll through tile previews). I believe that these updates are coming, however, on both desktop and WP8, so have patience; there is no reason to spew hate on a work in progress, this is only counter productive. One of the reasons I got WP7 was so that I could follow the development of a new technology. It's quite exciting to see something grow and mature :)

    I know that the 360 has a raging preteen fanboy base, but I really don't want to find out that this also applies to Windows desktop. Go bring your fanboyisms to Mac, or linux if you prefer (though I also like to think the *NIX community is populated by professional bearded developers)

    Speaking of the 360, I have not heard any mass complaints over the metro UI overhaul. Contrarily, it seems to be positively received almost universally.
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    digger1985
    It's a dev preview. It's not even a beta. Anything can and will change. Don't base your opinions of W8 on this.
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    txdeathray
    maybe i'm just weird like that, but i kinda like the metro ui on my laptop/desktop setup. even though i don't have a touch-enabled screen, it didn't take me long to get used to using metro and make it work the way i like.
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    j3.cole
    j3.cole
    The live tiles and simplicity of it all are very nice, and dual booting Kubuntu was simple, I'm quite sure triple booting (Win7) would be a piece of cake as well. The desk top with the split screen is awesome! And a desktop is a desk top I don 't see the big deal here... Oh, this is a pre beta, I almost forgot. So let's see, New features, choices, smaller footprint, options, OH and Upgrade!?!? Can we try and see the cool part of it?
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