[DISCUSSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders putting an end to US development?

numbR7 · May 12, 2014

I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.

All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....

EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.

But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.

LoSt180 · May 12, 2014

I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.

numbR7 · May 12, 2014

LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.

I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.

LoSt180 · May 12, 2014

numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.

T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.

rachelm920 · May 12, 2014

Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL

eortizr · May 12, 2014

As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.

So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

numbR7 · May 12, 2014

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.

So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.

cstayton · May 12, 2014

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.

So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.

just my opinion is all.

eortizr · May 12, 2014

cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.

just my opinion is all.

Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.

johnkirchner · May 13, 2014

I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...

Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.

baldwyn · May 13, 2014

What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

sk8trix · May 13, 2014

I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

numbR7 · May 13, 2014

baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.

baldwyn · May 13, 2014

AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.

I think I kinda explained it right there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

numbR7 · May 13, 2014

baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.

I think I kinda explained it right there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]

Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.

numbR7 · May 13, 2014

rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL

Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol

sentinel79 · May 13, 2014

numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol

I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.

I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!

baldwyn · May 14, 2014

I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

numbR7 · May 14, 2014

baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.

davew41 · May 14, 2014

After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).

This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.

No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.

I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...

Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.

I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..

Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..

[DISCUSSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders putting an end to US development?

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