S-OFF explained - by a Developer

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notsointeresting

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2011
2,398
1,944
Vancouver, BC
Thank you for clearing this up for average users a bit. There have been numerous posts about this and often getting terms crossed. I'm sure this will prove very handy. :beer:

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
 
May 14, 2012
29
11
Arizona
thank you. i have a greater understanding now. means a bit more research but will help alot when i finally get my new phone

Sent from my MSM using XDA
 

Mathman85

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2011
370
126
Chicago
Quick question (great post, btw). Suppose we unlock via HTCDev and install a rooted ROM, but then Sprint does a radio update. Since we'll [currently] still be S-ON, and we obviously won't want to lose root or have them re-lock the bootloader, we can't do the OTA update; and since we're S-OFF, we can't flash a radio update. What do we do then? Is the solution to simply perform a nandroid backup, accept the OTA, and the restore (re-unlocking and re-rooting if necessary)?

I'm coming from an EVO 4G, on which I swapped radios a few times until I found the best combo for my data speeds... never had to worry about not being able to update my radios.
 

regaw_leinad

Inactive Recognized Developer
Jan 30, 2010
3,667
3,787
Seattle, WA
www.regawmod.com
Quick question (great post, btw). Suppose we unlock via HTCDev and install a rooted ROM, but then Sprint does a radio update. Since we'll [currently] still be S-ON, and we obviously won't want to lose root or have them re-lock the bootloader, we can't do the OTA update; and since we're S-OFF, we can't flash a radio update. What do we do then? Is the solution to simply perform a nandroid backup, accept the OTA, and the restore (re-unlocking and re-rooting if necessary)?

I'm coming from an EVO 4G, on which I swapped radios a few times until I found the best combo for my data speeds... never had to worry about not being able to update my radios.
We'll (most likely with Sprint) always have the option to unlock the bootloader, because they allow their phones to do that through HTC. Even if you do accept an update and it locks the bootloader again for some reason, you should just be able to re-unlock it on HTCdev.com and then flash a recovery, in turn flashing your custom rom/nandroid backup again. It just seems too easy haha, but that's where we're at right now.
 
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fachadick

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2010
2,643
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Northern NJ
fachadick.wordpress.com
There's a thread in the themes and apps section on an app called voodoo ota rootkeeper (or something like that) that can temporary unroot your phone to accept those updates. Never used it myself, but will probably get it for exactly this scenario.
 

ahernandez4110

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2006
254
21
Thank You so much for this Explanation, Im on Hboot 1.5 unlock with S-ON and have tried every cdma EVO 3d ROM out there with out any issues. But have to installed flash GUI in every flash to revert back to any past flashed roms.

Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
 

USMC retired

Recognized Themer
Mar 10, 2011
679
398
Corn Country
rooting

When I was a noob, I got my first phone home, couldn't wait to root it, didn't read a thing, just went "balls to the wall" so to speak, one hour later I had a paper weight, now at first that might tickle your funny bone, it tickled mine to the tune of about $500.00 to by a new one. Read forum after forum after that, took my time, asked people for help, an hour later that time I had complete success.

Moral of the story, if your in doubt DONT, DONT.

Good luck and happy ROMMING lol
 

rezo609

Senior Member
May 17, 2012
363
523
Dallas
sorry people, remember when i said i was working on and s-off eploit, well it failed because bootloader failed to update its firmware

alexjzim said:
rezo609 said:
alexjzim said:
Sounds good. I figured out why the script wasn't pushing the files correctly by the way. The evo lte doesnt have the folder /internalsd/, it shows up as /sdcard/ and /sdcard2/ I wasnt sure which one the bootloader needed, so i edited your script and added in both, so it looked like this:

3gkU8


then i ran the script on a NON-goldcard sd, and ran into a protocol error

g3loB


when going from fastboot into the bootloader, the phone found the file PJ75DIAG.nbh, but when trying to apply it, it failed because of a signature error.

I didnt realize at first i wasnt using the goldcard. I plugged that in and ran the script again. Ran into the same protocol error, but this time when i got to the bootloader, it said checking PJ75IMG.zip, and then exited back to the bootloader

Hopefully the information i provided you will be helpful with this

Thanks so did you try a goldcard yet?

i was using a goldcard during that time
 

regaw_leinad

Inactive Recognized Developer
Jan 30, 2010
3,667
3,787
Seattle, WA
www.regawmod.com
When I was a noob, I got my first phone home, couldn't wait to root it, didn't read a thing, just went "balls to the wall" so to speak, one hour later I had a paper weight, now at first that might tickle your funny bone, it tickled mine to the tune of about $500.00 to by a new one. Read forum after forum after that, took my time, asked people for help, an hour later that time I had complete success.

Moral of the story, if your in doubt DONT, DONT.

Good luck and happy ROMMING lol

Ah man, that's too bad. I agree with reading before doing, but sometimes you just go for it, I'm guilty of that too haha.

sorry people, remember when i said i was working on an s-off eploit, well it failed because bootloader failed to update its firmware

That's too bad :( Keep up the work!
 

shadowhawk2020

Senior Member
Mar 6, 2008
397
72
Dumb question, if we use HTCDev, and something goes wrong with the phone but the issue has nothing to do with the unlock/root, will sprint keep us from using the insurance?
 
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dsEVOlve

Senior Member
Sep 2, 2010
382
108
If unlocked via HTCdev and no S-off, are flashing custom kernels still a possibility or ROMs only? I've read that kernels are out until we get S- off but maybe that was misinformation too.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
 

regaw_leinad

Inactive Recognized Developer
Jan 30, 2010
3,667
3,787
Seattle, WA
www.regawmod.com
If unlocked via HTCdev and no S-off, are flashing custom kernels still a possibility or ROMs only? I've read that kernels are out until we get S- off but maybe that was misinformation too.
Sent from my EVO using xda premium
I'm not actually 100% sure, I haven't messed around with flashing any boot images yet. BUT, all of the roms in this forum DO contain a boot.img, which is where the kernel is compiled into, and there are no errors upon flashing. That being said, we don't have the kernel source yet, so you won't be seeing much in terms of custom kernels until we get it.
 

kevinsturf

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2012
275
95
New York
thank you very much for that clarification! I was aware that it meant security on or off but had no clue what it protected.
 

alexwick

Senior Member
Feb 25, 2012
197
6
Great thread...

Would love to see more threads like this, that can break down KEY-PARTS of this "business" in easy words... Often people are good in the tech part but not good in explaning it.

You did a GREAT JOB looking for more threads like this one !!!!
keep them coming! :)


Dumb question, if we use HTCDev, and something goes wrong with the phone but the issue has nothing to do with the unlock/root, will sprint keep us from using the insurance?


actually I think its a awsome question...

before you jump in the deep... shouldn't we know what the implications, as far as worst case sceneario are...

I dont know if there exists a good thread for this, but here my question

When will I loose factory warrenty? (techincally and in real life)

if I root?
If find a way to S-off?
If i flash a custom rom?
if i unlock the bootloader?
if I use htcdev?


Now what I mean with technically and in real life is... lets say I would loos my warrenty when I root my phone... than technically I have lost my warrenty doing so... but if I can unroot my phone, with NO evidence left behind that I ever did, than I technically lost it, but in real life... no one will be able to proof it, without extensive time and rescources...

So I would love to get some answers to these questions...
 

Evo_Shift

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2011
2,348
482
Why don't system apps come back after a reboot if I haven't unlocked my bootloader if you cannot permanently alter /system with a locked phone? Or are apps at not at as deep of a level as the OP is talking about? Like I screwed up an app so bad I had to RUU to get it back because none of my backups seemed to work even after rebooting many times. I would continue to get a forced close message every time. Swype is the app I messed up.
 
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  • 348
    Lately I have read many posts with wrong assumptions about S-OFF. I am writing this post in General to clear up to many of you what S-OFF is and isn't.

    To start off, S-OFF has nothing to do with your phone being rooted. I've seen people post that S-OFF means a "full" root, or "permanent" root. Those terms aren't even correct, root is just another user on the linux system, and you either have access to it or you don't. Rooting your phone and what that entails is out of the scope of this writeup.

    When your device is shipped, your bootloader will show the flag S-ON. This stands for Security-On. What this security does is protect the NAND partitions (ie: the boot partition, the recovery partition, the radio, the system partition...) from being permanently modified at all. Basically, all changes made to these partitions while the phone is running is not permanent, and will be reset upon a reboot. Also, while your phone is S-ON, all firmware zips (ie: PJ75IMG.zip) must be digitally signed by HTC in order to be flashed through the bootloader.

    When your device is set to S-OFF, the security is turned off. This allows you to modify any partition on the device, and changes will not be reset upon a reboot. Also, the signature checking of the firmware zips (ie: PJ75IMG.zip) is disabled, allowing users to flash unsigned firmware zips containing the separate images of the partitions. S-OFF gives the user great power over the device, but also comes with much responsibility to be careful.

    I have seen many posts stating the term "S-OFF root". As I stated earlier, S-OFF and root are completely different things. When you have S-OFF in the bootloader, you then can flash a package containing Superuser.apk and the su binary, which in turn will give you root in the file system when the device is booted. Again, S-OFF does not mean you have root. You can have S-OFF set (if there was an S-OFF exploit released) on the stock phone running the stock unchanged ROM, and not have root in the file system because you haven't pushed/flashed the Superuser.apk and su binaries on your phone yet.

    I have also seen many posts about people not "trusting" the bootloader unlock at HTCdev. Yes, we all know that it does not set the bootloader to S-OFF, but it does unlock the partitions that are needed to flash a custom recovery, and through that flash a custom ROM. This is probably the most trustworthy way to "unlock" the bootloader. Any S-OFF method released here in the future will most likely be a hack to make it work. Imagine if HTC gave out the radio S-OFF unlock. That would mean ANYONE (specifically people who are very flash happy) could find a random radio firmware zip which.. oops.. isn't for the correct device, flash it through the S-OFF bootloader, and brick their device. Releasing the limited unlocking was very smart by HTC, and will definitely save many phones from ending up in the graveyard.

    Now I am not saying I do not want S-OFF haha. As a developer, S-OFF is well needed and is extremely useful. It's definitely being worked on. But for the average flasher, (of ROMs, not human parts ;) ) radio S-OFF is not needed.

    Hope this clears up confusion about what S-ON and S-OFF is. I will add to this as I feel necessary, and to clear up some of my sentences (Sometimes I start typing before I finish thinking of what I'm going to type).
    12
    If I may add to this discussion ...

    If you do not already know these terms and what they mean you should probably not be attempting to root your phone yet

    You should instead invest some time reading and learning first.
    4
    I personally want S-Off.

    Mainly because I prefer not notify HTC that I'm unlocked.

    Occasionally it's fun to dabble in trying newer radios and is sometimes required for later releases of the OS. Radio firmware can add or take away some functionality as well (like VPN).

    Yes, we know it's dangerous, it's pretty rare folks dork their phones because they had s-off. But one of the worst examples is the flash happy folks on the EVO 3D that flashed Virgin Mobile firmware and should not have (myself included).

    ---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------

    Thank you for the great info! While not a noob(have had rooted, s-off OG 4G, and 3D, just rooted EVO LTE), I don't understand, nor want to, at an advanced level, Linux, ADB,FASTBOOT, etc. I like making my phone my own, and like flashing ROM's. I tried to use the HTC method of unlocking, but am just not comfortable with my skills to try and use SDK/ADB/FASTBOOT. Perhaps I can find someone in San Antonio to show me, but unless/until, I'll wait for someone such as yourself to provide a "dumbed-down" method. Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise.:)

    It's really not that hard. No harder than figuring out how to use recovery, bootloader etc.. The current root procedure you just did on the LTE used ADB !! Just follow procedures.
    4
    Great post. I don't like it when people use the incorrect terms either, and have made similar posts on other forums, specifically relating to the OG. I usually recommend that noobs that "want to root" use the HTC unlocker because, as you pointed out, it's a safer solution for those that don't really know what they're doing.

    Unfortunately, because that process is somewhat involved, many users new to Android or just not technically inclined prefer to use what this community has to offer. That's good, I suppose, as that's one of the reasons this community exists, but I strongly feel like it takes away some user responsibility to get to know their device. If people would take the time to learn about adb and fastboot and find out what an RUU is and what the /misc partition is, I feel like there would a lot more contributors on this forum than whining leechers.

    I've personally never been one to follow instructions without first at least trying to understand what I'm doing, but I guess not everyone is like that.

    At any rate, thanks for the post, and I'm sure I'll see everyone around a bit more once Amazon finally delivers my phone.