Where are all the recent base ROM's (or unprotected cooked ROM's)?

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dcd1182

Senior Member
May 7, 2007
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Denver
dutch expression: don't invent the wheel twice...
well that is kind of my point. if the information is already out there, why should i duplicate it? so that someone else doesn't have to search as much? i see your point as well, but what im saying is, there has to be some middle ground. theres an extreme of being selfish, and theres an extreme of spending all of your time "reinventing the wheel" being generous.

I also started with shipped ROMS. But now I'm getting the hang of it a little and then it's dissapointing that you are not allowed to for example to port a newer xip/sys, to build your OWN cooked rom, because they do not want to share
it is a moot point to me. i will share something with you here: porting from a port is more trouble than its worth. stick with shipped ROMs. you wont have to piss with whatever somebody else mucked up and you will get your dsm and rgu's.

you will find an aku 1.4.0 build in a shipped rom here. I do not remember which ROM contained it, most of them are 20270.1.3.1.
 

mrvanx

Retired Moderator
Aug 27, 2006
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...... i have seen no evidence to say that the device is more sluggish in general when more files exist in \windows. (and i have tested myself)
.....

There is a difference between files in \windows which are part of the ROM and files you have put in there during runtime, I and many chefs have seen the evidence to show that reducing the number of files present in the rom in \windows improves access times. Simply popping files in there as you run the ROM isnt an accurate test.

Since the ROM is easily dumpable anyway regardless of the rgu/dsm files it is quite a poor argument that the technique is there to prevent users gaining knowledge of the cooking process.
 

dcd1182

Senior Member
May 7, 2007
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There is a difference between files in \windows which are part of the ROM and files you have put in there during runtime, I and many chefs have seen the evidence to show that reducing the number of files present in the rom in \windows improves access times. Simply popping files in there as you run the ROM isnt an accurate test.

Since the ROM is easily dumpable anyway regardless of the rgu/dsm files it is quite a poor argument that the technique is there to prevent users gaining knowledge of the cooking process.

i'm quite familiar with the filesystem, but i do not follow what you refer to as access times? accessing what, how? i mean yes its going to slow down browsing \windows in your filemanager of choice. the question is, what does that matter? is there any effect on everyday operation? i have seen none.

how are you gauging these access times? precisely what actions does your benchmark perform?

when i next have some free time, i will spb benchmark a device with dsm/rgu in \windows, and again without, and post results.

not trying to be argumentative, rather just want to get to the root of the \windows access times debate. i generally stay out of these...
 

mrvanx

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Aug 27, 2006
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i'm quite familiar with the filesystem, but i do not follow what you refer to as access times? accessing what, how? i mean yes its going to slow down browsing \windows in your filemanager of choice. the question is, what does that matter? is there any effect on everyday operation? i have seen none.

how are you gauging these access times? precisely what actions does your benchmark perform?

when i next have some free time, i will spb benchmark a device with dsm/rgu in \windows, and again without, and post results.

not trying to be argumentative, rather just want to get to the root of the \windows access times debate. i generally stay out of these...

I/We have noticed a general improvement with the filesystem benchmark (coincidently in spb) when rgus are removed and dsms are compressed, ofcourse opening \Windows is quicker but Im not sure what the physical reason is for improved filesystem performance. Its not to the extent of some ROMs in the diamond forum which manage to pull off a benchmark of over 1000 (strangely high filesystem score??) but definatly an improvement of 10% wouldnt be uncommon when this is carried out.
 

pfcsabre

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2008
870
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The Hague
i'm quite familiar with the filesystem, but i do not follow what you refer to as access times? accessing what, how? i mean yes its going to slow down browsing \windows in your filemanager of choice. the question is, what does that matter? is there any effect on everyday operation? i have seen none.

coming from early tweaking of manila 2d, performance is better when the images are being read outside of windows directory. IMO, less clutter in windows directory, more performance gain. Not just for manila 2d, but all other apps. that's why i'm also considering to cook my own rom also.
 

dcd1182

Senior Member
May 7, 2007
1,822
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I/We have noticed a general improvement with the filesystem benchmark (coincidently in spb) when rgus are removed and dsms are compressed, ofcourse opening \Windows is quicker but Im not sure what the physical reason is for improved filesystem performance. Its not to the extent of some ROMs in the diamond forum which manage to pull off a benchmark of over 1000 (strangely high filesystem score??) but definatly an improvement of 10% wouldnt be uncommon when this is carried out.
thank you, i appreciate the details. i will test this way and prove it to myself. i have thought that this was a lame excuse being used and would like to disprove that :)

since its relevant here now...(sorry to OP we are off topic)...i have changed to using the following in my batch. if a chefs concern is protecting his own additions, its not necessary to destroy the OS in the process.

Code:
attrib .\temp\dump\ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-dcd*.* -s -r -h
del .\temp\dump\ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-dcd*.*

attrib .\temp\dump\*.dsm +s +r +h
attrib .\temp\dump\*.rgu +s +r +h
attrib .\temp\dump\mxip*.* +s +r +h

obviously my packages follow a naming scheme and microsoft's do not use fffffff..

...performance is better when the images are being read outside of windows directory...Not just for manila 2d, but all other apps...that's why i'm also considering to cook my own rom also.

ok, but the behavior being discussed here...well if you cook your own rom, youre going to have a copy of every single file included anywhere in \windows. it sounds like what you want is a cab that installs elsewhere.
 
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pfcsabre

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2008
870
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The Hague
ok, but the behavior being discussed here...well if you cook your own rom, youre going to have a copy of every single file included anywhere in \windows. it sounds like what you want is a cab that installs elsewhere.

OT also: I've just pointed out one specific example of performance behavior when applications are reading in the windows\ directory with too much files vs. less files :) One of my point/goal is when I'll be building my own ROM, as much as possible, build a ROM with less files in windows\ directory.
 
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sub69

Senior Member
May 26, 2005
775
26
Sydney
Yeah, thanks for all the comments for/against protection. But with the greatest respect, at the end of the day, it's doing me (and merten3000 - and others like us) no good whatsoever!?!

As I said, I really didn't want to start this sort of debate because I can't be bothered to argue with chefs who have made their minds up. They've made their choice to protect their ROM's, end of story.

I've PM'd chefs, politely asking for dsm, rgu, package.sof files for my own personal use, and have received no joy. Again, that's their choice, but it's certainly nothing to do with reducing the \Windows directory by a couple of hundred tiny files, is it?

What I'm concerned about is that previously I used to be able to take an almost perfect ROM and (using information from this forum) I could make some fairly minor tweaks to it for my own needs.

These days that's just not possible, and in my opinion that's a massive step backwards for both the casual community, and the promotion of both WM and XDA-Devs. Hopefully the current way of thinking is only temporary, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Given all the time in the world, I'd love to be able to port, tweak, perfect, and release my own unprotected ROMs, but that isn't feasible so I have to rely on the generosity of others to do most of that work for me. Unfortunately, that seems to be (almost exclusively) a thing of the past?

If I sound like a spoilt brat wanting everything for nothing, then I sincerely apologise, but I can honestly say that I wouldn't have started cooking my own personal ROM's, I wouldn't have gotten quite as involved with my devices, and therefore I wouldn't have been able to help others as much as I have done - in my own limited way - if the situation had always been like this. I'm quite sure I'm not alone, either...

Ok, got that off my chest, I'm off to bed!
 

sorg

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2006
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台灣
I would like to make proposal to reduce this mess of builds.

How about to make thread/forum where all new OFFICIAL ROMs with new builds will be posted.
If there is no any official ROM with particular build then this build should be treated as "probable-fake" build. Cooker can claim whatever he wants (that he can not publish original ROM, he saw this but original owner refused to give it to him and other blah-blah-blah) - it doesn't matter.
Very simple rule: If there is official ROM with this build then build is trustful. No offical ROMs - no trust.

This rule will help very much. Today, almost everyone little knowlegeable can cook his own ROM.

For me, last year of xda-developers is year of big mess and garbage :(
 

monx®

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2006
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Red Magic 6S Pro
For 2 days I'm trying to find a 20755 based rom to port sys and xip from, but all the ones I find are protected...

I'm very attracted to this. Base ROM, protected..
Jerpelea is one of the OS build provider is u hv time to find it here.
There is no protected ROM (at least for me). Removing IMGFS signature, reversmode, all_package_to_one, yadiyada.. Just use all the sources here to reverse the thing u called protect.
There is no shorcut to succcess. Read this carefully before u reply.
 

merten3000

Senior Member
May 3, 2007
727
3
I'm very attracted to this. Base ROM, protected..
Jerpelea is one of the OS build provider is u hv time to find it here.
There is no protected ROM (at least for me). Removing IMGFS signature, reversmode, all_package_to_one, yadiyada.. Just use all the sources here to reverse the thing u called protect.
There is no shorcut to succcess. Read this carefully before u reply.

Thnx Monx,

I totally agree with that post you linked to.
Like I said earlier in this thread. I spent almost a year trying/learning to cook roms (porting included). But the problem was I could not find a source for new ingredients...until I indeed found jerpelea ;)
Now am cooking again...
But for the reversing of the 'protections'. I searched for that but did not come very far. I guess I'm still a nOOb on that front....
 

jcespi2005

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,394
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Madrid
OnePlus 9 Pro
Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra
I'm very attracted to this. Base ROM, protected..
Jerpelea is one of the OS build provider is u hv time to find it here.
There is no protected ROM (at least for me). Removing IMGFS signature, reversmode, all_package_to_one, yadiyada.. Just use all the sources here to reverse the thing u called protect.
There is no shorcut to succcess. Read this carefully before u reply.

As always ;) thanks for the usefull info...

BTW the link http://tinyurl.com/5lsbob don't work for me, any mirror?

Cheers
 

sub69

Senior Member
May 26, 2005
775
26
Sydney
I'm very attracted to this. Base ROM, protected..
Jerpelea is one of the OS build provider is u hv time to find it here.
There is no protected ROM (at least for me). Removing IMGFS signature, reversmode, all_package_to_one, yadiyada.. Just use all the sources here to reverse the thing u called protect.
There is no shorcut to succcess. Read this carefully before u reply.

Played with Jerpelea's Niki kitchen for the whole of last weekend. Never quite managed to get a stable Raphael ROM from it, but in the absence of anything better I'm persevering...

Yes, reversing protection is certainly possible, but it's also a bit hit and miss - you can never quite reverse it 100% accurately unless you have the original dsm's, etc...

I'm glad I'm not the only frustrated one. It looks like
more talented people than me have also found the situation an irritation.

As for there being no shortcuts to success - I disagree. They do exist, we used to have an abundance of them, and the title of this thread mentions two of them. Unfortunately the path to success is becoming a lot longer now that they're so few and far between...

And linking to kyphur's post would suggest that in your opinion, looking for recent ROM's that I can modify for my own personal use puts me in the category of "leeching n00b who wants everything done for him"? Bit harsh, isn't it?
 

merten3000

Senior Member
May 3, 2007
727
3
all_packages_to_one.exe

Included in Raphael Kitchen ;)

Cheers

I'm trying to apply this tool on my 'privat rom', but I keep getting errors. I installed C++ (2008) like Bebe said but It starts and almost directly hangs and I get an windows error message that the program stopped working and they are looking for a solution.

Any help here?? (and yes I searched the whole forum, that's why I installed C++ ;))
 

jcespi2005

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,394
196
53
Madrid
OnePlus 9 Pro
Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra
I'm trying to apply this tool on my 'privat rom', but I keep getting errors. I installed C++ (2008) like Bebe said but It starts and almost directly hangs and I get an windows error message that the program stopped working and they are looking for a solution.

Any help here?? (and yes I searched the whole forum, that's why I installed C++ ;))

I installed this attached VCRedist in my Vista machine and works fine for me...

Hope this helps ;)

Cheers
 

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no2chem

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2007
276
103
thank you, i appreciate the details. i will test this way and prove it to myself. i have thought that this was a lame excuse being used and would like to disprove that :)

since its relevant here now...(sorry to OP we are off topic)...i have changed to using the following in my batch. if a chefs concern is protecting his own additions, its not necessary to destroy the OS in the process.

Code:
attrib .\temp\dump\ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-dcd*.* -s -r -h
del .\temp\dump\ffffffff-ffff-ffff-ffff-dcd*.*

attrib .\temp\dump\*.dsm +s +r +h
attrib .\temp\dump\*.rgu +s +r +h
attrib .\temp\dump\mxip*.* +s +r +h

obviously my packages follow a naming scheme and microsoft's do not use fffffff..



ok, but the behavior being discussed here...well if you cook your own rom, youre going to have a copy of every single file included anywhere in \windows. it sounds like what you want is a cab that installs elsewhere.


Going further OT, i would like to note that imgfs is linked list based, so the number of files in the linked list would affect traversal speed, especially in the case of an extremely large list. According to the Microsoft patent it seems like multiple linked lists are used:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1544732.html

But in practice, I think there usually is a single linked list. List traversal would then take O(n) time, as opposed to O(log n) time for some sort of binary tree. The storage region is FAT, and as usual is prone to the problems with the FAT filesystem. In particular:

"File entries within a given directory are not kept in any particular order. When a file is opened, the table for the directory is scanned, starting at the begining, to search for the file. When a new file is created, the entire table for that directory must be scanned to determine if the file already exists. When a file is deleted, the entry for that file is cleared, but the remainder of the table is not repacked to reclaim the entry (although the entry may be reused if a new file is created). What all this means is the amount of time to open or create a file in that directory will rise linearly with the number of files in that directory. A directory with a large number of files may impact performance." -http://blogs.msdn.com/medmedia/archive/2007/01/04/fat-filesystem-performance-issues.aspx

Which, although not particularly applicable to WM, does discuss how windows CE handles files in FAT land. I have made some attempts to port exFAT to WM, but uh, CE 6 is quite different from CE5.

Anywho, what this tells us is that a lower number of files is generally better for the performance of the IMGFS/FAT32 file system. The reason why you might not see a general increase in performance is that most day-to-day tasks on WM do not involve the creation or deletion of files in the \Windows directory, and I believe (don't quote me on this) that the MS app guidelines for the designed for wm logo discourage the creation of files in that directory, with the exception of DLLs upon install.


Finally, to get back on topic-

I try to always release a kitchen with a release so people can cook their own roms and possibly make improvements. For example, I'm not too big of a fan of those touchflo3d things, but some other people are, and maybe a cook can make a nice touchflo rom off of my base. Personally, I think that many (not all) cooks that protect/encrypt their files are worried because once the secret behind their ROMS success is revealed, it is easily reproduced. Others may do it because they don't want others to steal their secrets, etc. I've run into problems with certain people editing my work and claiming it as their own, so I guess I could understand where they come from. It is, ultimately their decision. However, I feel that those who are confident with that work, that it is different and good enough that when reproduced, people will still be able identify it, have nothing to worry about.
 
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