[Q] VZW East Texas GPS Outage

I finally made contact with a top level engineer named Travis. He posted to the Verizon Community Forum Site the notice/ticket that we've all heard about:

VZ Navigator and GPS Not working in East Texas - Verizon Wireless Community

He is going to visit our thread on a regular basis to get input or feedback on our GPS issues. He also stated that the ticket I have open is priority 1 because my phone is a Thunderbolt. Not sure why that's the case, but he said I should get a call from the engineer assigned to the ticket soon.

I encourage everyone with the East Texas GPS Outage issue to post to the Verizon forum. Travis has the screenname of VZWTravis.

The notice/ticket reads as follows:


From ticket created April 26th

VZW performed network integration work in this area on 4/6/11. the issue the customer is experiencing is due to the delay of Google updating their database with our new SID/BID/NID for the area. Google states that this issue normally clears up within 2-4 weeks once VZW network changes occur. please advise customer of the timeframe for resolution.

This is where the retail stores are getting their information. I made it clear to him that we are long past the 4 week mark and that I expected him to take ownership of our problem by finding a solution. We'll see what happens.

Anyone have luck with the mods adrynalyne posted. I haven't tried them yet because I'm on a Droid X with Liberty rom...

I received a response from the Verizon Solutions Consultant I spoke with on Monday morning. This is the same gentleman that added our issue to the Verizon regional meeting that happened yesterday.



Here's his response:



"There is some lively discussion going on. One recommendation is making sure your device has the latest firmware update.

I will send a more comprehensive response later today, but again, wheels are in motion. We have the right team in
place isolate the problem and provide the solution."



I will post his comprehensive response later today.

I love how they keep calling Google Maps a "third party" application. Point in fact is that Google Maps is a first party application. It's all the Verizon bloatware and VZ Naviagator that are the third party apps.

The person who said update your firmware won't be able to help. They obviously don't know what is going on. This problem is ALL on Verizon's side with the towers. Or maybe Google's, but verizon is going to have to push on Google...

I posted it before, but here it is again. We all need to go file FCC complaints. Disabling GPS on devices is illegal. verizon is only going to fix this if they get fined: http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm .

wilydodger said:

Anyone have luck with the mods adrynalyne posted. I haven't tried them yet because I'm on a Droid X with Liberty rom...

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Nope, it didn't help thewayne01 so I never tried it myself. While I appreciate that adrynalyne tried to work on this, I don't think it's something that software is going to fix. That's why it's so frustrating--seems like we're at the mercy of Verizon, and depending on who you talk to, I'm not sure they even think there's a problem.

wilydodger said:

We all need to go file FCC complaints. Disabling GPS on devices is illegal. verizon is only going to fix this if they get fined: http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm .

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LOL. How do you know that E911 location services don't work? GPS is _not_ a legal requirement. Sending location info along with 911 calls is.

For handset-based location (which is usually GPS, but could include tower triangulation or even WiFi triangulation), the requirement is within 50 meters on 67% of the calls and within 150 meters for 95%. They can also do network based location (which they very well may do as a fallback), where the requirement is only within 100 meters for 67% of the calls and within 300 meters for 95% of the calls.

mike.s said:

LOL. How do you know that E911 location services don't work? GPS is _not_ a legal requirement. Sending location info along with 911 calls is.

For handset-based location (which is usually GPS, but could include tower triangulation or even WiFi triangulation), the requirement is within 50 meters on 67% of the calls and within 150 meters for 95%. They can also do network based location (which they very well may do as a fallback), where the requirement is only within 100 meters for 67% of the calls and within 300 meters for 95% of the calls.

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1. I have had to call 911 when tower triangulation was all they had to locate me, and they most definitely could not find me in the area I was in. From my personal experience, I do not consider ANY interference with the 911 system a "LOL" matter. So please don't make the claim that GPS is not a necessary function of e911.

If verizon is messing up peoples' GPS, and they force even one person to go through what I did when it could have been prevented, then it should be punishable by law even if it isn't right now.

You said it yourself, the location information included with a 911 call "is usually GPS". That means at the very least, Verizon is interfering with the main location assistance for e911, and they are forcing operators to fall back on much less precise information. Do you really think that knowing the precise location of an incident during an emergency situation isn't helpful? GPS assisted 911 calls save lives, period!

2. If you are trying to dissuade people from taking action about this, then you either don't care enough to see this fixed or you work for Verizon. Which is it?

3. The FCC considers disruption to the GPS system an investigable offense. It is listed as an example under the section on interference with public safety devices. There is no reason to take my word on it, go look for yourself if you doubt.

So again, this is exactly the type of thing the FCC was created to fix, but they have to be made aware of the problem. You can do that here: http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

thewayne01 said:

It appeared to help initially, but was no different than resetting aGPS data and force stopping GPS Status.

I was working in Lufkin yesterday and GPS worked beautifully. It is very frustrating to see that and then have no GPS back in Tyler.

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Thanks jonakin and thewayne01. I must have tried dozen different flashes on my hone over the over the last month. What used to be fun is now a chore, so I'm glad to you let me know.

BTW, in regards to my last post, I'm usually not a ranty person, but the way Verizon is dealing with this (or not as is the case) has me about to come totally unglued.

At least I have driven north enough a couple times to see my GPS start working again. I think I would still be doubting that it wasn't partially my handset's fault if not for that.

wilydodger said:

So again, this is exactly the type of thing the FCC was created to fix, but they have to be made aware of the problem. You can do that here: http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm

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Goodluckwiththat. By the time anyone at the FCC even reads your complaint, the issue will be fixed, Chicken Little. Get someone from the local E911 center to contact them (and that assumes that Verizon is violating E911 location regulations, which you have no evidence of, yet alone proven), and you might get action in a couple of months.

Quit posturing, and be honest - you're *****ing because your GPS doesn't work, and you want to have the government make Verizon fix that. Rationalizing that it's because of E911 concerns doesn't fool anyone.

mike.s said:

Goodluckwiththat. By the time anyone at the FCC even reads your complaint, the issue will be fixed, Chicken Little. Get someone from the local E911 center to contact them (and that assumes that Verizon is violating E911 location regulations, which you have no evidence of, yet alone proven), and you might get action in a couple of months.

Quit posturing, and be honest - you're *****ing because your GPS doesn't work, and you want to have the government make Verizon fix that. Rationalizing that it's because of E911 concerns doesn't fool anyone.

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Oh good lord, of course I am irritated that my GPS doesn't work. Aren't you? I'm tied to a contract with Verizon and I sure don't have the resources to make a giant multinational fix anything. I have no intention of needing to dial a GPS assisted 911 call anytime soon, but I'm not going to call the FCC and complain that my google maps doesn't work. You see a problem with the FCC cleaning up the e911 issue and all of us getting our GPS navigation back as an added bonus? I don't...

I pay taxes, I obey the law, so why shouldn't the government force Verizon to hold up their end of the contract? As for the month wait for the FCC to look into it, what are we on waiting for Verizon to look into it on their own? A month and a half?

I'm not trying to be melodramatic, but the FCC has a process in place to file a complaint about interference with my ability to access my GPS, so I used it. So should as many people as possible to speed up the process. And what do you mean I should contact the 911 center? You think I'm gonna dial 911 to ***** that my cell phone doesn't work? Get real.

What's your suggestion? Keep calling uniformed tech support agents in some call center that have no idea what we are talking about? Talk to the Verizon local store that doesn't give a damn because they already locked us into a contract? Wait another month and a half crossing your fingers that Verizon will fix it without a little prodding? What exactly do you think is going to change in the next month that didn't over the last one?

Seriously, you seem mighty keen on discrediting talking to the FCC about this. They'll investigate a HAM radio operator in a neighborhood. You don't thing they'd be interested in a 10000 square mile GPS deadzone created by Verizon?

If you have a better suggestion, go ahead though. I'm listening.....

wilydodger said:

I'm not trying to be melodramatic, but the FCC has a process in place to file a complaint about interference with my ability to access my GPS

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No, they don't. In fact, the FCC seems to care very little about GPS.

Seriously, you seem mighty keen on discrediting talking to the FCC about this. They'll investigate a HAM radio operator in a neighborhood.

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You're seriously ignorant about exactly what the FCC concerns itself with. Amateurs are self policing, and the FCC gets involved rarely. Hams in general cause very few problems - most complaints are because of poorly designed/built consumer electronics. In fact, they're much more likely to go after someone who is interfering with hams, and even then, real action often takes more than a year.

mike.s said:

No, they don't. In fact, the FCC seems to care very little about GPS.

You're seriously ignorant about exactly what the FCC concerns itself with. Amateurs are self policing, and the FCC gets involved rarely. Hams in general cause very few problems - most complaints are because of poorly designed/built consumer electronics. In fact, they're much more likely to go after someone who is interfering with hams, and even then, real action often takes more than a year.

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Most likely it won't help, but the form takes all of three minutes to fill out. I don't know or care what specific regulations verizon may be violating, but the FCC most certainly does have some sort of a relationship with verizon.

Yes, filing the form most likely won't help. However, NOT filing a complaint absolutely won't help.

The best results I have had so far have been emailing the CEO and getting this issue picked up by the Executive support team. They are tracking it and "sent some engineers" to check it out. Emailing the FCC and the executives both took less time than arguing about this with you has.

The page you pointed out had hundreds of instances of the FCC investigating single neighborhoods to check on interference. Have you looked at the google map of this? It's literally is a section of East Texas at least 100 miles on each side. If a neighborhood being interfered with warrants a response from the FCC, why wouldn't 10000 square miles of interference warrant at least an inquiry?

Anyway, I really have no idea how to get Verizon to fix this. I'm just popping out ideas that may help. I'm not going to argue the point anymore. So unless you have a solution to offer yourself, please return the courtesy.

Is GPS back up just about everywhere tonight? Mine has had a lock all night in Tyler. How is everyone else fairing?

Lol, you must be like a mile from me. I say Tyler, because no one knows where Whitehouse is...