Anyone noticed what kind of damage you are doing to the Prime?

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junrider

Senior Member
Jan 10, 2012
704
79
I agree with most of your post: I don't think Asus will admit publicly to concerns on the BT/Wifi performance if not for any other reason than these features are practically intrinsic to the function of the tablet and are, at the least, of incredible import for most users...GPS does not enjoy that level of visibility and concern, as demonstrated here.

I think Asus does not want to publicly admit the other flaws of the prime other than obvious GPS. If they did, they will lose sales and pretty much tell the consumers that they knowingly released a defective device. So its better to admit to one thing and cross it off in the specs than publicly admitting to a list of things and lose all credibility and have to do a recall. Just my thoughts.
 

wynand32

Senior Member
Jan 2, 2008
2,356
417
The back of the tablet is aluminum, many people complain about the wireless/BT performance, the wireless/BT antennas are under the aluminum...I'd say "preponderance of the evidence" is well on its way to being met.

Just came across this post at another forum. Seems like there's a potential fix that could alleviate much of the drop in wifi performance. Doesn't specify what the fix is, but it certainly looks like the Prime is entirely capable of performing at or close enough to other devices in terms of wifi.

Not GPS, apparently, but we know that. And I'm still looking for evidence that Bluetooth performance is actually bad on the Prime. Seems to me like that one just gets lumped in there as if it's a fact, when plenty of evidence has been supplied that the Prime isn't better or worse in this regard.

http://androidforums.com/asus-eee-p...asus-has-fix-wi-fi-now-how-do-we-get-lol.html
 

BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
Ah, yes, you might be entirely correct. However, there's a whole world of difference between you saying it, and ASUS saying it.

If it's not quoted specifically, how about:

1) Asus' admission of wireless issues due to the back cover (GPS).
2) Asus' next tablets moving away from the design.
3) The addition of a second antenna which, for the added expense and mixed result, had to be compensating for something.
4) Anand's editorial findings in comparing against the TF1.
5) HTC having issues with the aluminum-backed Sensation and subsequently moving away from the design.
6) Wi-Fi being worse on the iPad2 vs. iPad1 with the removal of the plastic window.
7) Wide swings in the Prime's Wi-Fi performance based on conditions.
8) YouTube side-by-side comparison to the TF1 in varying scenarios showing the Prime having issues maintaining a strong and continuous signal.

If the back cover were on trial for murder, there's enough evidence to put it away for life. ;)

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

Just came across this post at another forum. Seems like there's a potential fix that could alleviate much of the drop in wifi performance. Doesn't specify what the fix is, but it certainly looks like the Prime is entirely capable of performing at or close enough to other devices in terms of wifi.

Not GPS, apparently, but we know that. And I'm still looking for evidence that Bluetooth performance is actually bad on the Prime. Seems to me like that one just gets lumped in there as if it's a fact, when plenty of evidence has been supplied that the Prime isn't better or worse in this regard.

Everyone speaks about Wi-Fi, GPS, and BT as if they're totally unrelated. They're impacting each other in the closed environment created by the metal case and, in the case of BT and Wi-Fi on the same frequency, competiting with each other. My guess is that in order to get through the metal back, Wi-Fi and BT are both amped up and that's why they're conflicting. Further amping up Wi-Fi stands to make BT worse and vice versa. Now that we have a real h/w engineer commenting, what are your thoughts GernBlanston?
 

mike infinity

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2008
150
34
If Asus won't say it, I will. The metal case is either attenuating reception/transmission of both, or it is acting as a trap or a transducer where one operation raises the noise floor for the other.

Claims like that are in contradiction to the data I have collected...and many other posters. I, for one, am surprised at the number of posters here who only believe claims of poor performance, ignore the rest...and then make claims of a general design flaw.

The bottom line is performance. At 40 ft, two walls, and one floor away my prime does better than ipad 1...par with my laptop...and maybe 10-15% worse than my tf101. I have run probably 100 tests across a variety of devices and find the prime average in performance against devices of various design. I have no issue with performance combined with bt audio.

So the proof is in the pudding. Maybe there are some batches of primes where there is a hardware issue with antenna performance. Mine...metal back and all...is just fine.

So if Asus can make some tf201s with adequate (15-30mbps at 20- 60 feet with obstructions including a metal doors) then the metal back is simply a non issue...and I know of several posters who have had as good or better performance than me with their prime and wifi.



Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
 

junrider

Senior Member
Jan 10, 2012
704
79
Claims like that are in contradiction to the data I have collected...and many other posters. I, for one, am surprised at the number of posters here who only believe claims of poor performance, ignore the rest...and then make claims of a general design flaw.

The bottom line is performance. At 40 ft, two walls, and one floor away my prime does better than ipad 1...par with my laptop...and maybe 10-15% worse than my tf101. I have run probably 100 tests across a variety of devices and find the prime average in performance against devices of various design. I have no issue with performance combined with bt audio.

So the proof is in the pudding. Maybe there are some batches of primes where there is a hardware issue with antenna performance. Mine...metal back and all...is just fine.

So if Asus can make some tf201s with adequate (15-30mbps at 20- 60 feet with obstructions including a metal doors) then the metal back is simply a non issue...and I know of several posters who have had as good or better performance than me with their prime and wifi.



Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium

hahah I have tested 5 primes.. all have full bars at being close to the router, step four feet away and I drop 1 bar. no obstruction. The I pad2 at 10ft away still has full strength. Tried it at work and a different router. Router is on the second floor maybe 20 ft away and Im on the first floor. Side by side I borrowed a friend's prime and my prime both shows 2 bars, while my ipad2 still full bars. So there is proof in my pudding.
 

gogol

Senior Member
May 20, 2005
3,735
216
So, basically you are admitting your Prime wifi performance is worse compared to TF101 ... and in the same time you are saying other claims are wrong (your first sentence)?

Claims like that are in contradiction to the data I have collected...and many other posters. I, for one, am surprised at the number of posters here who only believe claims of poor performance, ignore the rest...and then make claims of a general design flaw.

The bottom line is performance. At 40 ft, two walls, and one floor away my prime does better than ipad 1...par with my laptop...and maybe 10-15% worse than my tf101. I have run probably 100 tests across a variety of devices and find the prime average in performance against devices of various design. I have no issue with performance combined with bt audio.

So the proof is in the pudding. Maybe there are some batches of primes where there is a hardware issue with antenna performance. Mine...metal back and all...is just fine.

So if Asus can make some tf201s with adequate (15-30mbps at 20- 60 feet with obstructions including a metal doors) then the metal back is simply a non issue...and I know of several posters who have had as good or better performance than me with their prime and wifi.



Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
 

mike infinity

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2008
150
34
hahah I have tested 5 primes.. all have full bars at being close to the router, step four feet away and I drop 1 bar. no obstruction. The I pad2 at 10ft away still has full strength. Tried it at work and a different router. Router is on the second floor maybe 20 ft away and Im on the first floor. Side by side I borrowed a friend's prime and my prime both shows 2 bars, while my ipad2 still full bars. So there is proof in my pudding.

Yes but the fact that my prime...and others who have posted here are getting good wifi performance proves

1. That at least some batches work.

2. That you can have good performance with a metal back.

After hundred plus speedtests...zero streaming issues with HD content plus bt audio...and if you search these threads you will find all my shootout comparisons...and many other posters who have done as well or better....these conclusions are well founded.

You have a bad unit...perhaps from a big batch of bad units.

Not all of us have a bad unit. Is that so hard to accept?

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
 
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mike infinity

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2008
150
34
So, basically you are admitting your Prime wifi performance is worse compared to TF101 ... and in the same time you are saying other claims are wrong (your first sentence)?

Tf101 bested every single device I tested including my laptop. Should I return my laptop to Toshiba, my ipad 1 to apple, and my galaxy nexus to Samsung because none of them scored as high on a speedtest as the tf101?

All of them are more than adequate...the tf101 has an above average antenna according to all my tests. The tf201 was right in the mix with the rest of them.


Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
 
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gogol

Senior Member
May 20, 2005
3,735
216
Tf101 bested every single device I tested including my laptop. Should I return my laptop to Toshiba, my ipad 1 to apple, and my galaxy nexus to Samsung because none of them scored as high on a speedtest as the tf101?

All of them are more than adequate...the tf101 has an above average antenna according to all my tests. The tf201 was right in the mix with the rest of them.


Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium

No, but your statements were confusing and inconsistent.

What you are saying is no different, Prime has weak WiFi as tested by many others and proved by your TF101 as well.
And that's not a contradiction as you said there.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
 

BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
Maybe there are some batches of primes where there is a hardware issue with antenna performance. Mine...metal back and all...is just fine.

You realize in defending one issue (the metal back) you're pointing to one that's probably even more serious. Why should any mass produced electronic device have such deviations from one example to another (if in fact they do)? If what you're saying is true, and to get a decent specimen you have to buy five and return four, Asus' earnings and reputation will get tanked. And say what you will, Asus had no major Wi-Fi and/or BT issues with their previous devices. The only thing different about the Prime that's a first for Asus is the metal back cover and Teg3 chip (ICS doesn't count because the issues existed when the Prime was on HC). Of the two, I'd say the chip being the sudden cause for one Asus device to perform below all their others is probably a long shot. And Asus abondoning the design (TF700) less than three weeks after the Prime was released means they're not too thrilled with the metal back cover either. Start watching the official video below at 0:55 to hear them confirm it.


Disregard the comments about continuing to sell the Prime along side the TF700 and saying the Prime has "good" wireless. What would you expect them to say when they're still trying to sell it?
 

GernBlanston

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2011
206
64
Bear, DE
I Now that we have a real h/w engineer commenting, what are your thoughts GernBlanston?

First, I'm no hardware engineer, I work in telecomm doing point-to-multipoint broadband wireless, point-to-point microwave, some LMR, and some mesh radio network design and lots and lots of project management. I'm not the guy who designed the radios, I'm the guy that specifies how tall the tower is, where the antennas are mounted, what levels we can use, etc., and I make predictions as to the performance of the install that mean a lot to people whose money I spend doing that. I'm not in the specific realm of designing consumer electronics, but the performance of a wireless network or device is something I can at least comment intelligently on.

I will say this: You can't judge a system's performance on one piece of anecdotal information or another; You have to look at a consensus of several, look at available data, and use common sense before you come to a conclusion. While some of us can point to a given Prime in a given environment and say, "Here is one that is working just fine!", I must point out the issue in coming to the conclusion that it is a problem limited to a given batch.

For one, if there's a single thing I've learned about radio, it is that it can take hundreds, sometimes thousands of data points to map a given wireless environment, as there are all manner of attenuators, natural and accidental waveguides, horns, reflectors, sinks, etc. all around you. The noise floor in your particular area may be completely different from hour to hour, day to day, etc. In testing one device against another, there may be all manner of frequency choices made, threshold levels reduced or made larger, hopping schemes abandoned or enlisted, etc., all behind the scenes and unbeknownst to you. While signals tend to fall off in a predictable fashion as you move away from their source, there are anomalies galore...Your favorite easy chair, 40 feet from your router, and through several walls, can end up looking rather like the environment in your office 10 feet from your router, or it could end up looking like a desert wasteland for wireless.

For the most part, however, for a given frequency and spectrum usage model, you end up making general predictions by using common sense and experience. No, I can't say with 100% certainty that the metal backing is holding back the performance of wireless and bluetooth significantly...but imho, as we say in the radio world, I'd give that statement at least two nines of reliability.

The reasons I feel we can point to the metal back as a culprit are:

1. There are many reporting poor wireless and bt issues. Not all, but many. Those that are reporting problems rarely report catastrophic failure, but rather, poor performance when engaged in specific activities. There is little evidence to support this being a problem of software or chipset design beyond a smattering of anecdotes and third-hand info here and there, and nothing by way of a definitive statement by an engineer at Asus.

2. Asus has admitted to the metal plate being a major factor in the performance of GPS. While GPS and wifi/bt are on different frequencies, the fact remains the back of the tablet is metal and encompasses the guts of the tablet. Within limits, one can infer things about the performance of wireless from the device with this info alone, especially if the two antennas are in proximity and therefore subject to similar surroundings.

For myself, I've had nights where I can stream HD (and by that I mean full bitrate 1080p) to my tablet from my server no problem, and I've had nights where I couldn't do it to save my life, all in a similar network throughput scenario on the same spot on my sofa. Receive levels are what I call weak, but definitely usable in most cases I run into. I don't have an overall problem with wireless performance on my Prime, but I completely understand those who are frustrated by it.
 
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richaoj

Senior Member
Jun 14, 2011
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Jackson, MS
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I think that alot of people on these forums don't realize that production is not going to be perfect, especially early on. Yes, ASUS could have done more/better quality control from the beginning, but I completely understand they were trying to get a product to market that had been delayed for a while. They probably rushed things. My first prime had terrible light bleed, but you know what, I exchanged it and got another that is fine. When someone complains that "30 or 40" users have a particular problem, that is a very small percent of the whole. I challenge you to look at the following failure rates for various companies:

http://m.lifehacker.com/5524704/laptop+reliability-study-highlights-the-most-sturdy-laptop-makers

I quote, " ASUS and Toshiba were the most reliable manufacturers, with fewer than 16% having a hardware malfunction"

So 16% is the best in the industry! (Perhaps that speaks to the industry, but that is simply the way it is.) I know this is a study of laptops, and obviously the prime is not a laptop, but put into this context, the small number of users experiencing the problems described in the flame ASUS threads is completely standard to this industry. I know, it really sucks if your fancy new toy comes broken in some way, but that's simply the way it is sometimes.

The GPS issue aside, ASUS has been doing a good job in dealing with these problems. Directly engaging with the customers on XDA is flippin sweet. I completely agree with the OP: in an industry where 16% failure is normal, flaming ASUS for the problems that are described in these threads is not only silly and naive, it is simply irresponsible towards the rest of the prime commmunity.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
 

GernBlanston

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2011
206
64
Bear, DE
So 16% is the best in the industry!

16% is the best in laptops, having significantly more moving parts and mechanical features, in a three-year ownership period, not within a month of release. With approximately one third of those being accidental damage. In this thread, we're talking about a single issue that seems to affect, what, about 10% of users of this forum? 5%? And that's only those who find reason to complain; There are likely significantly more experiencing reduced levels and throughput who don't realize it or care. There's no way you can extrapolate that 16 percent you quoted to the broad range of possible failures, accidental or otherwise, over three years in the Prime, much less to a single specific issue being noted frequently 30 days after release.

And yeah, i agree it`s awesome Asus are here to address various concerns, and I do encourage people to take avenues such as their return policy, RMA, etc.,rather than complain incessantly....just that those options are not always available.
 
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dmbatson

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2009
204
12
Tucson
Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra
Asus refreshed my faith in them. I RMA'd my device on Jan 11 got it back today well it was a new device . New box everything. I was like.... okay?

Now just to get my keyboard dock.
Sorry if sloppy @ work. Down time at circle k..

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
 

mike infinity

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2008
150
34
No, but your statements were confusing and inconsistent.

What you are saying is no different, Prime has weak WiFi as tested by many others and proved by your TF101 as well.
And that's not a contradiction as you said there.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

How can you possibly get that from my post?

Let me be plain.

My tf201 tested with speedtest from 5-60feet plus with multiple walls...even metal doors between it and the router...at my place of work and elsewhere with high bandwidth wifi scored

EQUAL. to a 2011 Toshiba laptop at close and long range and equal to a dell i7 laptop as well.
BETTER than an ipad1 10-15% in many cases
Much better than my galaxy nexus
Better than various other phones and friends tablets in most cases...

The tf101 scored highest of all...so can we conclude that the entire above list is weak wifi? If that is your criterion then just as soon as someone invents a tablet that bests the tf101 you better head straight over to tf101 forum and start a thread on how weak its wifi has become.

Bottom line? At 60ft with obstructions my tf201 can stream 1080p HD video plus bt audio without stuttering one bit.

Call that weak if you want...it only proves what anyone can spot as an obvious bias on your part.



Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium
 

gogol

Senior Member
May 20, 2005
3,735
216
How can you possibly get that from my post?

Let me be plain.

My tf201 tested with speedtest from 5-60feet plus with multiple walls...even metal doors between it and the router...at my place of work and elsewhere with high bandwidth wifi scored

EQUAL. to a 2011 Toshiba laptop at close and long range and equal to a dell i7 laptop as well.
BETTER than an ipad1 10-15% in many cases
Much better than my galaxy nexus
Better than various other phones and friends tablets in most cases...

The tf101 scored highest of all...so can we conclude that the entire above list is weak wifi? If that is your criterion then just as soon as someone invents a tablet that bests the tf101 you better head straight over to tf101 forum and start a thread on how weak its wifi has become.

Bottom line? At 60ft with obstructions my tf201 can stream 1080p HD video plus bt audio without stuttering one bit.

Call that weak if you want...it only proves what anyone can spot as an obvious bias on your part.



Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using xda premium

Go back to your first post that I quoted. You ditched all other claims that Prime wifi is weak, while in the same time saying your Prime wifi performance is less than og tf, which is weak. In fact, some of those claims that you disagree were testing against og tf.

See that contradiction?

If you still dont get it, then I cant help.
 

Col.Kernel

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2010
426
72
yes this is a totally valid point. as you can imagine, i am in the first "class" ;-)
more on that later...

And that just proves my point. Your expectations/needs are completely different from mine.

I'm not saying that one viewpoint is valid and the other is not, nor am I trolling.

I'm saying I paid almost $800 (including shipping) for a tool and I expect it to work. If I had paid that much for any other tool I would expect it to work as well.

As long as the WiFi will connect in the environs I need it to I couldn't care less about what the review sites say. Any other manufacturing issues will be RMA'd.

The issue here is that Asus did not perform what we call "due diligence" in their engineering QA or in their QA/QC testing. Nor did they front load their production line/supply chain properly to meet the demand of a highly hyped device.

So demand was high, supply was/is low, and many products had numerous defects. Since many of us have limited discretionary income some sold "older" devices to upgrade to the new hotness. Only to find out that the "older" device worked better than the much hyped Prime.
 
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  • 83
    Hey guys,
    I really need to rant a little bit now.

    This thread is for everyone creating all those "kill ASUS on facebook/twitter/blog sites" threads.

    I really understand your angryness about the initial issues with the Prime, but has anyone of you guys ever thought about that you are doing huge damage to both ASUS and yourself with those hate campaigns?

    Best example: "Lets spread information about minor software problems all over the web and its major blog sites"

    This is ridicioulus guys... Seriously, ASUS really can't fix for example the serialnumber issue within 3 days...
    They need to find out what's wrong first. After that they need to fix the problem. After fixing the testing follows.
    All this needs time. And spreading rather unprofessional information all around the web won't speed this up at all.

    But now to the main part of my rant: the damage being done to us, the owners of the Prime.

    Do you guys really think you are doing anything good with those social attacks?
    In fact you are driving many people away from the Prime for reasons which are seriously non-issues.

    Lets re-think about the issues and ASUS reactions:
    • GPS issue: ASUS confirmed, that this might be a hardware problem,
      it seems they are starting a bonus program for the ones not happy with the GPS (either 6 more months of warranty or a full refund)
      This is actually really embarassing for them, but I couldn't think of any better method to solve this issue
      (we are talking about realistic methods here, giving you a free TF700 is not realistic)

    • The Wifi issue: Well actually we do not know much about this.
      ASUS told us it's not a hardware issue, rather an issue of specific batches with wrong firmware. We will see in the future what they can do here

    • The Wifi/BT issue: As several members found out this is a real non-issue. Speed drops appear across all devices and platforms when using BT and Wifi together. Nothing really to complain about here

    • Random lockups and reboots and unknown serial number issue: ASUS is aware of these problems, already got fixes and is testing these fixes right now.
      Nobody else tests fixes with real customers in a public forum. Thats' great!

    Now lets talk about that damage I am always talking about:
    Here the facts:
    • Reporting minor software issue (GPS and Wifi aside here) definitely leads to a smaller customer base for the Prime

    • Major news sites falsely reported the serial number problem as a hardware problem, leading to confused users which do not want to buy this tablet

    • Smaller userbases always lead to less support, both from the company and also from our own developers.

    • Less company support means that we will get less often and lower quality updates for our Prime. The device will be abandonned much faster than devices with large customer bases

    • Less dev support means less innovating new features from our side, less custom ROMs, less custom kernels, in fact the smaller the userbase the faster the Prime development will go dead

    • Think of the HTC HD2: the ultimate development phone. Its rather big userbase lead to incredible development. They have everything on that phone: Win 6.x, WP 7, Android 2.x and 4.x, real Linux... Smaller userbases ultimately lead to worse device development

    I guess it's already too late, the damage being done by you and the major blog sites is irreparable.
    Non tech-focused customers who read Engadget won't get a Prime now.
    But these non-tech focused guys are the imporatn part of a customer base.
    We tech guys here are always a very minor part of a device's customer base.

    Ah and by the way: If you buy a product directly after launch, you have to expect those kind of problems.
    I haven't seen any product launch in the last years which had not initial problems and issues. No matter if tablet or phones, HTC or Samsung...

    ASUS is always one of the first (the first?) major companies, providing support on xda-developers. That is nothing usual for big companies like ASUS.
    Give them credit for this move.

    I hope someone actually read that text...
    8
    Srsly? Do you have like Stockholm-Syndrome?

    Asus threw an unfinishied product on the market.
    They can't fix the SN issue in 3 days? Well, I didn't have such issues with my 4 other android devices. Maybe the should have been testing it.

    Of course it is embarassing for Asus, but this is clearly not our fault. We fulfilled our part with odering and paying for a tablet. Rest is up to them.
    While I agree that a free TF700 or such things would be impossible, the GPS problem is clearly a sign there has be no/not enough testing.

    All the problems you are stating would have been showing due to Asus product testing, again. This is completely THEIR fault and they have to deal with it now.

    You think we need to stop reporting errors to make the prime look better and they can sell more?
    Dude, seriously. Do you buy a brand new car and when you have issues, you just shut up so the store can sell some more?

    I'd really love to love my Prime, but with all those obvious mistakes Asus made, I can't.

    The problem with what you are doing is: If you support Asus now, other companies will see it's ok to sell faulty products, and the next generation of tablets could have big issues as well.
    You need to say what's wrong for anybody to hear. Or would you like to buy a product and then find out later that it's full of bugs? But nobody tould you because it wouldn't be nice for the company?

    Do you think Asus will decrease support if less people are bying it?
    Again, this wouldn't be nice, but it's completely in the hands of Asus.
    It's a big company and they shouldn't have trouble emplyoing a few guys for support. If not, the save money on the wrong thing. Don't make (Non-)Buyers responsible for this.


    No matter what other companies do, bringing an untested product to the market is not acceptable and that is the feedback Asus is getting now.

    And no, you don't have to expect those "kind of problems".
    When I buy a 600€-Tablet, I expect a full working one, and not in 3 months but NOW. I didn't have problems with my Optimus 2x or Iconia A500.

    It's a big difference wether the company is fixing issues or improves the quality with updates.


    And another point on Asus working with the community: It's nice they are on XDA, but... I remember there was...is... a locked and encrypted bootloader?
    Yeah, right. Asus completely locked the Prime and only promised to make an unlock tool after giant social network ****storms.
    Is this "working" with the community? Why didn't they look at HTC and provided an unlock tool from the beginning? Asus is only giving in because they are afraid of more bad attention. And that seems to be the only way for the community to be heard.

    Just my 2c.
    pintness
    6
    First, OP, this isn’t just about Asus. What you’re saying in your post is that to protect the image and viability of a product (any product), people should suck up what they’re handed and deal with problems quietly in a way that benefits the manufacturer. That way, the product’s image will be protected. That’s great for current owners looking to reinforce their purchase and to grow the user base, but what about people that haven’t yet purchased the product? Hide defects and issues from them so they can figure it out themselves? If Acer hoses the A700 launch, would you give the same advice to their board? This goes against the principles of XDA.

    Back to the Prime. Many of the issues discussed here caused people to say the Prime wasn’t right for them and either returned them or passed. Would you deprive them of that knowledge beforehand to further your personal agenda? Did you sign the “unlock the bootloader” petition? If so, then you’re being somewhat hypocritical.

    Manufacturers need to be held accountable for their decisions. In Asus’ case, the choice of a metal back cover, claiming “GPS” when there wasn’t, racing the Prime to market with inadequate testing, and the random QC issues were all self-inflicted. Following your guidance, if this was kept quiet and didn’t impact sales, what incentive would they have going forward to sweat the details and deliver high quality products starting with unit number one?

    Any “damage done to the Prime” was done in meeting rooms in Taiwan long before anyone here had a Prime in their hands. And h/w and s/w aside, hopefully Asus learned from this that customers aren’t sheep and willing to accept what they’re given and in the future will provide more frequent, accurate, and consistent communication before and after they launch a product. It’s terrific that after the damage was done Gary Key’s been proactive in cleaning up the mess and Asus offered a six-month warranty extension. Let’s give them an “A” for that. They get an “F” for how they managed the launch, communication, some of their design choices, and initial QC. So, at best, they’ve earned a “C.” If they’re a learning organization, let’s see what they do with the TF700. If it’s a repeat of the Prime, then God help them. And if the TF700 is everything the Prime should have been, that’s what’s going to cause the problems you outlined to happen, not the *****ing.

    My friends that bought (and returned) Prime’s are pissed. Anyone trying to get one before the holidays went through flaming hoops and invested a lot of time and energy that they won’t get back via a “refund.” They’ll never purchase an Asus product again and are telling everyone they know about their experience. So even if everyone on XDA follows your advice, the damage will continue long after the postings stop. And it should because that’s what keeps manufacturers in check.
    4
    Dear Diamondback,

    Damage to ASUS with those hate campaigns? I am sorry, but I am not going to speak well of a company that releases devices with as many problems that I have paid for. If I end up buying a broken device, I will be disappointed. They did not let these devices through proper quality control and we are suffering from it.

    Serial number issue should have never happened. WiFi issue should have never happened. GPS should have never happened. These problems can be caught in quality control, but they didn't because they rushed the device to the market before holidays and did not test it long enough beforehand.

    Yes, a lot of new devices have tech problems. Difference being that while I have been part of many tech launches as an early adopter in the past, I have never seen a launch that has this many critical problems and this amount of returned devices. Even I had to return a device because the keyboard just did not work and I've never had to do it before in my life.

    As for damage to 'us', your points are irrelevant. Social media attacks are important, because they make ASUS more aware of these situations and react quicker. Let's be honest here, ASUS PR has been horrible throughout the Transformer Prime launch. It is only thanks to their customer support and engineers in this forum that we get some information out of ASUS.

    I will not 'lie' and say that TF201 is a great device. It is really really good, but if you want to be sure and want a better all-round device then I will suggest people to get an iPad 2 and I will not tell my friends that this device does not have flaws just because this will increase ASUS sales and public image.

    These social media attacks are important because ASUS will hopefully try to do better in the future, because a company cannot survive many of these clusterfraks in a row.

    If ASUS will 'abandon the device' quicker because people are critical about it, then so be it. It will only make it clear to me not to buy ASUS products in the future, since it is exactly when there are problems, where support is needed. Not providing this will lose them even more customers in the future.

    And trust me when I say this, Transformer Prime will never be a popular device in a way iPad, Galaxy Tab or Kindle Fire are popular. It will sell more than the original Transformer, but it will be very little known outside tech circles. Most of my friends don't even know that there is such a thing as TF101, let alone TF201.

    How can ASUS change that? Not disappointing early adopters. It is the most crucial thing about products release, since early adopters are the most passionate customers. At the moment though many of us are with flawed screens, weak WiFi, non-existent GPS, devices without serial numbers and countless of other issues that will really hold us back from speaking well about the product we have paid a lot of money for.

    ASUS can really change all that by letting devices actually go through quality control and testing. Many of the problems with Prime were detected in just the first days of use by us or the reviewers. ASUS can spare to delay the release by a week to provide additional testing for a fixed amount of devices.

    Will they do it in the future? Who knows, unlikely. This device was rushed to the market to get as much sales as possible, ASUS did not care about us, the customers, they cared about their sales.

    And this is why we have every right to be critical of ASUS. I hope they will do better in the future.
    4
    Whoa...let's back up a little here.

    First, a great deal of us have complained directly to Asus. Some of us have either contacted by email or by phone. The response we got back from Asus were... from what users report here,
    a.) unresponsive or b.) neglect issues and unhelpful. This led a lot of us to become upset, as most of us put down half a grand in US dollars or higher amount overseas or Canadian. That's just for the tablet.

    Second, Asus may be one of the most unlucky companies to grace a tablet after the production of their first tablet faced similar scenarios. Under-produced, delays, B&M and Online retailers out of stock or cancel preorders. And not just cancel preorders immediately but 2 weeks to 3 weeks later. (Thanks for the $10, Amazon)

    Third, every blog/hardware/android/gadget site wrote *wonderful* things about this tablet. The hype was on! Only 2 of those sites reported any slight of a problem while testing - and Anandtech went so far as to blame Asus for giving him the tablet <24 hours prior to release of the NDA. A faulty tablet, at that. But when did this occur?? Most of us had our primes already on pre-order.

    Fourth, after the initial "ooh" and "aah" of the tablet ceased, the problems started *glaringly* popping up. No GPS worth a stick. Wifi range and transmission is extremely weak. BT and Wifi can't coexist together. Resets, Serial Number Unknown, Black lines and hazy screen, Screen not glued on properly, Proprietary cable loose and broken - all these reports started showing up. I'm sure I'm missing some. Notice I didn't mention Unlocked Bootloader because it's not in the hardware specs (although subwoofer is still listed as spec on dock http://www.walmart.com/ip/19590184?wmlspartner=AKGBlS8SPlM&sourceid=41075484931113395125 )

    Today we can interpret from what Asus has stated that the UK and some EU countries that received the Prime don't suffer from the wifi range/BT/GPS issues - which means that they have different hardware in them giving them a better signal, or positioned differently.

    To this day, we still don't have any confirmation (official) that such a statement exists concerning our poor wifi signal. Or BT/wifi. or GPS. and no, taking GPS off your specs does NOT solve the answer.

    To the individuals who you all say are complaining too much and return the prime - trust me, Asus wants us to keep the prime. Most of us would be happy if the wifi range / connection was better, bt/wifi worked, gps worked, serial # was known, etc. It's hard for us to keep believing in a company that said ICS would be out before the holidays, etc. or that our previous TF101 docks would work for future tablets. Yeah, I believed that one too.

    Now, for me, who is typing on an Asus 1005HE netbook, I can tell you that having invested quite a few dollars in Asus over the lifetime of computers (and all the mobos I have), one little mistake wouldn't bother me. But it hasn't been one little mistake. It hasn't even just been MY tablet. IT's been a tremendous amount of users tablets.

    If we follow your suggestion OP, which I may be mistaken but it's to speak with Asus concerning our problems, what, should we also not flash our lights at anyone who is driving at night without lights? By complaining to the other sites, we are at least INFORMING others of the issue, since we are the "beta testers" and letting people know - hold off - let Asus get this right before you go dropping $500+ on something that you may entirely be disappointed in. We are doing Asus a SERVICE, by complaining to them - complaining to sites - the same way people write reviews about items on Amazon. We are giving Asus a chance to correct this - but it's hard to do when they release a 1920x1080 Tegra 3 with backplate completely different OHH and it's compatible with the new Prime Dock.

    For what it's worth - I am holding on to my Prime, as I'm sure others are too - to see how Asus responds to our issues. Will they have us send it in and replace it with different hardware or a backplate? I certainly hope so. Will they give us a trade in for free towards the new 1080p tablet? I certainly hope not. I just want this damn thing fixed, as others do, and in the future I will certainly wait and see concerning future reviews whether it's worthy of my god damn hard earned money.
    And please don't tell me that websites are blaming Asus - no one wants to cross that line so they don't get the future tablets under an NDA and are able to review them first - Engadget even goes so far as to say Asus bent over backwards giving us updates to fix the wifi and gps, and then release ICS and it's still not good for us. Cowards! At least Anandtech did us service by warning us with as little time as he had about possible issues - he even stated he worried that users that received the first batches would receive the same crap wifi that he did - and for the most part, he was right (exceptions to users who received awesome Wifi and BT and GPS capabilities but don't understand how to check your connection to your router and if you drop from 54-19-5-1Mbs in ranges of 3, 12, 18,30 feet with no walls in between)

    We arent hurting Asus, we aren't hurting ourselves. Perhaps next time, when Apple co-cospirator Walt Mossberg states "some say this is your copy of the Macbook Air" and Johnny S. laughs uneasily, we'll take that as "none of our products are quite ready to launch yet, please don't buy" and "most of our promises end up broken and if not we'll remove it from our specs". If we don't speak out, who will? I'd be a whole lot less remisce if this cost $249 instead of $499.

    -Writing from my prime which is 6 feet from my router on channel 6 with wifi and BT on using Apple Bt Keyboard at connection of 5Mbs (should be 54 thanks). (edited just for sheets and goggles)