8 core update for exynos? !
- Thread starter Ahmedmoataz
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it would be nice to turn off the weaker cores then. i'd suspect them to be a cause of a lot of the lagginess and frame drops in video players. bs player has been the smoothest so far.
I believe there were a few articles floating around specifically saying that the CPU in the note 10.1 2014 edition could potentially get the true octacore mode. I believe there were also demo videos using this tablet in another thread.
Here's the thread from the N3 forum showing a tablet running HMP. It's clearly a test mule and not a N10.1-14. Here's the bottom line about adding HMP after the fact - there's nothing in it for Samsung. All the current products are marketed with a defined "high end" performance capability and are vaguely marketed as "four core" for S-800 and "1.9+1.3" for Octa. What's the benefit to Samsung of lighting up all eight cores to exceed today's performance and to take on the burden of the impact to battery life and potential thermal issues? All for something that only enthusiasts (us) know or care about.
The only clear benefit of implementing HMP is adding the four A7 cores on top of the four A15 cores to improve high-end performance which will end up tanking today's battery life. As implemented, 1-4 cores of each cluster can run within a given cluster and the gains of mixing and matching clusters (EG: 4 A7+1 A15 vs. 2/3 A15) is unproven and questionable.
So maybe future Octa chips will run HMP but, primarily because there's no benefit to Samsung of doing anything to existing devices, I don't see it being made retroactive.
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2556264
With what kind of videos do you experience frame drops? I use my tablet very often while using my cross-trainer to watch video and never experienced any frame drops. I tried MX Player, Dice Player and VPlayer and they are all smooth - actually no wonder, because they all use the HW acceleration for playback which can handle HD content without any problems.
aac and ac3 seem to cause the most problems SD and HD. I generally keep the nitrate around 2.5 Mb/s just for portability sake. container doesn't matter as avi, mkv, and mp4 all have the drops. I've used mx, BS, Archos, xbmc, and a few others and installed custom codecs if needed. heck even Netflix has a few frame drops. maybe I'm just too sensitive to it, but my s4, gn2, and gn8 have no problems. my old gn10.1 had no problems either. this 10.1 2014 is also the first Samsung device I've had that doesn't natively support ac3. hardware playback with alternative players do play the ac3 audio, but with dropped frames.
That's strange, almost all my video files contain ac3 6-channels audio and playback is smooth without any frame drops.
Doesn't seem like it , it's been confirmed that note 3 will not be getting the 8 core patch...since it's in essence a smaller version of the note 10.1 , well you do the math.
Can someone prove me wrong?? (please)
I believe there was a demo at CES with hmp running on the Note 10.1. I'm almost positive. Where was it confirmed the note 3 was not getting it? Just curious.
If Samsung was going to add HMP to the current generation of Exynos they would have tied it to something big, like the launch of a new $750+ tablet. HMP was shown on a test tablet, not the N10.1-14. Idealists keep hoping but it's not likely to happen.
Do you happen to know what SoC the test tablet was running? Everything I read said it was the 5420. Btw, I don't own a Note 10.1 - I still have a ****ty iPad 3. I haven't heard anything from "idealists" just going over what I have read from folks at the event. From what I have read, it seems as likely to happen on the Note 10.1 and Note Pro as it is to NOT happen. I have heard it won't happen on the Note 3; however, I assume that is due to size and heat issues. Shouldn't be the case with the lager tablets.
Only time will tell. You or I certainly don't know. I'm gonna wait to buy a new tablet and keep an eye on it though.
Thanks,
There's not one commercial/business reason for Samsung to update tablets already on the market beyond their published specs. Zip. Zero. Nada. And there's a reason not to. If an update to the SoC goes wrong and borks the tablet they have the liability of repairs. Enthusiasts (us) know what HMP is. The masses don't know, don't care, and are fine with what they're getting/got.
Ok. I can see you're really passionate about this not happening lol. So for the sake of not getting another response, I'll concede that you are absolutely definitely correct about this. It is not going to happen.
Thanks for you assistance on this matter.
The N10.1-14's battery life is "adequate" and the Exynos version takes forever to charge. The only benefit of HMP is adding the A7 cores on top of the A15 cores at max load. That's going to take a toll on battery life and increase the thermal load beyond what the device is designed for possibly impacting component life. Forgive me if I'm not enthused.
Ok, I'm out.
That's interesting to know. All of the test I have read about prior had gains in battery life by using the cores much more efficiently. You posted a video describing this process in detail and how it helped battery life, then you post the exact opposite opinion?
Something else I find interesting is that you say implementing HMP would "increase the thermal load beyond what the device is designed for" Yet... we all know that HMP is hardware-enabled in the 5420 SoC. So couldn't it be said that the device was designed to use HMP? I think it could.. nay, it should lol.
Wait a sec! I get it!! I just saw that you have fought this battle before with Iba21 - You really seem to have something against this whole thing lol. From what I just read, Iba21 really pooped on your entire argument and you stopped responding.
Don't worry about responding as I'm getting out of this "discussion". It's clear you have an opinion as do I.. Only time will tell who's is more accurate.
That's interesting to know. All of the test I have read about prior had gains in battery life by using the cores much more efficiently. You posted a video describing this process in detail and how it helped battery life, then you post the exact opposite opinion?
Something else I find interesting is that you say implementing HMP would "increase the thermal load beyond what the device is designed for" Yet... we all know that HMP is hardware-enabled in the 5420 SoC. So couldn't it be said that the device was designed to use HMP? I think it could.. nay, it should lol.
Wait a sec! I get it!! I just saw that you have fought this battle before with Iba21 - You really seem to have something against this whole thing lol. From what I just read, Iba21 really pooped on your entire argument and you stopped responding.
Don't worry about responding as I'm getting out of this "discussion". It's clear you have an opinion as do I.. Only time will tell who's is more accurate.
Saying inflammatory things and then posting "no need to reply" is passive aggressive. There are two possible benefits of HMP - 1) using combinations of A7 and A15 cores across clusters and 2) going beyond the current max of 4 A15 cores. Do you know if there's battery life to be saved by using 2 A7 cores and 1 A15 core as opposed to using 2 A15 cores? I don't but I'm guessing the advantage to be minimal. You don't have to be an engineer to understand that using cores in addition to the current max of 4 A15's is going to create more heat and draw more power.
Just a thought, but allowing HMP during periods of high load and having all 8 cores online all the time represent two different scenarios. If core OS functions could remain on an A7 and yield all 4 A15s to applications, you could see an improvement purely due to a reduction in OS interrupt servicing. The case for thermal dissipation and battery life represents an unknown as to how much of an impact it would really have. It would be highly dependent upon how heavily you are using the active cores. The penalty would be proportionate to how hard you're pushing it.
All that said, I tend to agree with BarryH_GEG. Samsung hasn't demonstrated a lot in the forward thinking department. They make capable tablets, but just don't have it together on a lot of fronts and definitely don't strive to optimize products in a way that delivers maximum performance. Their focus is primarily on gimmicks and visual features and hitting a point of "acceptable", not exceptional performance. I'm not bashing, I have owned numerous galaxy line products and will continue to do so until a viable active digitizer tablet surpasses the note line. It's just a business play on their part. You expend enough development resources to get a mainstream sale, no more.
The note 12.2 is a prime example. At the time of release, Samsung has no book cover available, poor planning. They didn't have Hancom Office in the preloaded image and it wasn't available until a day after release, also poor planning. The end result is a customer experience that isn't smooth and demonstrative of a company that gives significant consideration to first impressions or user experience.
All that said, I tend to agree with BarryH_GEG. Samsung hasn't demonstrated a lot in the forward thinking department. They make capable tablets, but just don't have it together on a lot of fronts and definitely don't strive to optimize products in a way that delivers maximum performance. Their focus is primarily on gimmicks and visual features and hitting a point of "acceptable", not exceptional performance. I'm not bashing, I have owned numerous galaxy line products and will continue to do so until a viable active digitizer tablet surpasses the note line. It's just a business play on their part. You expend enough development resources to get a mainstream sale, no more.
The note 12.2 is a prime example. At the time of release, Samsung has no book cover available, poor planning. They didn't have Hancom Office in the preloaded image and it wasn't available until a day after release, also poor planning. The end result is a customer experience that isn't smooth and demonstrative of a company that gives significant consideration to first impressions or user experience.
I have had my Note 2014 (32GB) for two days and would not want to have both core sets running at the same time. The device can already get very warm in the SOC area and the battery drains just like my iPad 4 when playing 3D games- faster than I want it to. Games are smooth and ditto for apps, so not seeing an advantage of all eight, but see the two key disadvantages. Not running into any core hand-off issues some are reporting that can cause lag. Not yet anyway.
Added:
I use Nova for my launcher, since IMO much better than Samsung's. Based on performance, I see no reason for me to root the 2014. Very happy already, so see no need to rock the boat.
Added:
I use Nova for my launcher, since IMO much better than Samsung's. Based on performance, I see no reason for me to root the 2014. Very happy already, so see no need to rock the boat.
Last edited:
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It is completely false to say that HMP would impact battery, if anything the opposite is true. There are very few applications which could even in principle use all 8 cores. Instead most of the times 3 is where apps max out, which would make little sense to enable HMP for performance reasons. But it makes all the sense in the world to enable it for battery reasons.
Samsung released a video a couple of months ago showing just that. Having all 8 cores enabled at the same time means that you have the 4 little one take most of the workload and the 4 big ones only be enabled as needed. This would result in unbelievable battery savings. Imagine an occasion where 4 little cores are not enough, what does the current implementation of big.little does? Oh but enable the 4 big cores disabling the little ones, so it ends up at times to light all 4 big cores when 4 little ones + 1 big one would be enough, this results in far lower battery.
HMP is a great idea both in paper and in practice, see the new Note Neo, it's using HMP to perfection and manages with "lower" hardware to perform as well as it's elder brother as well as be more energy efficient. *This* should be our example. Exynos 5420 is HMP compatible and it would only take a dev to enable it. I don't think that it will happen, but *if* it will it would instantly lead to far better devices...
Note 2014 has rather mediocre battery, my gf's ipad mini with almost half the MAHs has more juice. That's partly because the exynos chip is not very energy efficient. Enable all 8 cores and it will become that...
BTW the Note Neo sources (with HMP enabled) were just released. If we had a more active community I would expect an HMP patch coming from the community soon. Sadly seeing how badly misinformed most people are about HMP I don't think anyone would put the effort required and we'd stay with gimped devices ... oh well.2
Of course it can handle it. The rest is really just up to samsung whether they decide to roll out Linux 3.10+ for our device. Alternatively someone could simply backport the patchset from Linaro to Linux 3.4 or compile an actual 3.10+ kernel that boots on the SM-P600.
On a similar note, I recently tested Linux 3.14 with the normal IKS configuration (based on Samsung's defconfig for the SM-P600 with some updated values from the config for the Arndale Octa - an Exynos5420 dev board) but while it compiles just fine it doesn't get past the stock Samsung bootloader, and I'm sure there are some drivers missing as well. The only stuff I have currently merged in are the proprietary ARM Mali gpu drivers.
If I remember correctly dorimanx managed to get the 3.14 kernel to work with AOSP on the SGS2 but I'm not quite sure how he went about it and I'm too much of a kernel newbie to figure it out myself. If anyone here has any suggestions it would be deeply appreciated. Source: http://github.com/sigma-1/linux-linaro-3.142Here's your HMP. You just need to buy a device with Exynos 5422 (we have 5420) to get it.
Samsung announced two new mobile SoCs at MWC today. The first is an update to the Exynos 5 Octa with the new Exynos 5422. The 5422 is a mild update to the 5420, which was found in some international variants of the Galaxy Note 3. The new SoC is still built on a 28nm process at Samsung, but enjoys much higher frequencies on both the Cortex A7 and A15 clusters. The two clusters can run their cores at up to 1.5GHz and 2.1GHz, respectively.
The 5422 supports HMP (Heterogeneous Multi-Processing), and Samsung LSI tells us that unlike the 5420 we may actually see this one used with HMP enabled. HMP refers to the ability for the OS to use and schedule threads on all 8 cores at the same time, putting those threads with low performance requirements on the little cores and high performance threads on the big cores.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7811/samsungs-exynos-5422-the-ideal-biglittle-exynos-5-hexa-52601aac and ac3 seem to cause the most problems SD and HD. I generally keep the nitrate around 2.5 Mb/s just for portability sake. container doesn't matter as avi, mkv, and mp4 all have the drops. I've used mx, BS, Archos, xbmc, and a few others and installed custom codecs if needed. heck even Netflix has a few frame drops. maybe I'm just too sensitive to it, but my s4, gn2, and gn8 have no problems. my old gn10.1 had no problems either. this 10.1 2014 is also the first Samsung device I've had that doesn't natively support ac3. hardware playback with alternative players do play the ac3 audio, but with dropped frames.1My undergrad is computer electronics (though over ten years ago). Tech has changed a lot, but laws of electrical physics have stayed constant. Saying it is completely false seems as scientifically dubious as saying it is completely true. Samsung was concerned about thermals with the current devices. Seems that ties with likely more sustained peak watt consumption, so warmer running and more potential for battery consumption.
With the current SOC being a 28 nM build, how does higher performance not equal more heat and less battery? Respectfully does not add up. Added: Unless the nM goes down in correlation to increased speed which can not be the case. That is unless the core mix results in an exponential speed curve, which would also be very unlikely.
Again, the premise of point here is in regard to faster performance and not power efficency.
Added 2 : BarryH does a fine job of articulating. The benefit would be efficiency and not a speed boost that would not come with a thermal and battery life cost, since the fixed constant is the 28nM.
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