Motorola Defy IP67 rating: rumor or fact?

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By rogier666, Senior Member on 7th June 2011, 01:54 AM
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Back in September 2010 tech blog Engadget wrote:

Originally Posted by Engadget

Matching up to the IP67 durability spec means it's expected to resist being submersed in up to a meter of water for up to half an hour...

"Matching up to the IP67 durability spec" does NOT equal "it is IP67 certified."

Many other blogs and tech sites twisted the words from Engadget into claims that the Defy is definitely IP67 certified. Similar claims are all over thos forum too.

But is it really IP67 rated?

Motorola never claimed that the Defy is IP67 certified. They carefully avoid the word "waterproof" and their documentation clearly says that the Defy is not meant to go swimming. Their recommended drying procedure in case your phone gets wet doesn't sound very reassuring either.

Once you've unlocked and relocked the microUSB cover a hundred times or so it's hard to believe that it still keeps water out. The battery door latch also gets looser over time.

Pictures and videos of phones in pools and glasses of water don't proof that the Defy has an IP67 cert. They only show that the phone resists water under the conditions used in the picture/video, which are not the same as real world conditions for a phone that's been used for a few months.

Just because the IP67 story is copied all over the web doesn't make it true, so until someone can link to hard evidence I suggest that we treat the IP67 certification as a rumor, not as fact. Of course the hard evidence should come from Motorola itself. Tech blogs don't count.
7th June 2011, 06:27 AM |#2  
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The user manual states that the product meets or exceeds IP67 standards.

User Manual (PDF). Scroll down to the "Copyrights & trademarks" section on page 67 of the manual.

I also found the same wording in the user manual in Portuguese.

See the red page on the right.
7th June 2011, 06:28 AM |#3  
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i believe when the defy came out, moto confirmed that its ip67 certified, i think i even saw it on their official site. not anymore, there have been too many smashed/wet defys taken back under warranty (and youre right, in most cases the loose microusb cover was the problem). so in a nutshell, it was ip67 certified, not anymore.

Sent from my CM7 Defy
7th June 2011, 07:26 AM |#4  
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The manuals don't claim that the Defy is IP67 certified, and they certainly don't state who issued the certification. They only state that the specs are equivalent to an IP67 rating, which is something totally different.

And even that is wrapped in a bit of clever legalese:

All features, functionality and other product specifications, as well as the information contained in this guide, are based upon the latest available information and believed to be accurate at the time of printing. Motorola reserves the right to change or modify any information or specifications without notice or obligation.

Which may explain why this Motorola Defy user guide doesn't mention IP67 at all:

The printed booklets that came with my phone don't mention IP67 either.

It looks like the IP67 certification was a plan that got dropped when the phone was shipped. After all, Motorola reserved "the right to change or modify any information or specifications without notice or obligation."

That non-american manuals still have some IP67-related weasel words in them, well... Moto is known for being slow outside of their home country. The world outside the usa is still waiting for an official Motorola-provided Froyo update. At this rate they're never gonna keep their Q2 2011 promise. After they've finished with that update (Q3? Q4?) maybe they'll have some time to update the user manuals?
7th June 2011, 10:03 AM |#5  
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In my user manual (brazilian), it states the Defy is IP67-certified. Also, according to a tech blog (I know you asked for us not to use that sources, but read below), here in Brazil, while presenting Defy to the press, the phone was submerged in a glass of water. So, if Motorola (at least here in Brazil) officially shown it as "water-proof", I assume they know the risks included.
Anyway, I see no reason for one to simply throw it's phone underwater, just to say "my phone is waterproof". I've had my phone for more than a month now, and never did anything like this. I think the resistance (scratch, water, dust, etc) of this phone is meant to be used in two conditions:
1) Accidental falls/scratches/submersion (if any of you guys though about dropping it on the toilet, I strongly advise you hit the flush before anything else);
2) People with active lifestyles (like bikers or climbers), who need a rough phone to use during their activities.
Also, filming a pool party (I mean, Defy's TV ad shows a scene exactly like this) or being able to keep your phone by your side while washing the dishes are quite practical. Anyway, that's how it is: it's meant to survive a few of these damages, but not meant to be victim of such cruelties daily.
Just an example: if you own a phone which is advised as bulletproof, would you buy a gun just for testing this feature? I wouldn't. That's how the Defy is: waterproof, but not able to swim daily.
7th June 2011, 10:35 AM |#6  
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yes, it WAS
7th June 2011, 11:16 AM |#7  
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I thought it was rather obvious. The engineers got the brief to make it meet IP67, and it got certified to that. Motorola makes a big thing of it, then the legal dept gets nose of this and shuts the whole thing down: "Are you guys all CRAZY?! Before you can say "IP67" you will have thousands of claims of Defys with water damage, because their idiot owners forgot to close the usb cover properly before dropping it in the toilet! Now back off while we repair the damage you have done!"
7th June 2011, 05:24 PM |#8  
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Originally Posted by K3n H1mur4

In my user manual (brazilian), it states the Defy is IP67-certified

Can you quote the text from your user manual?

In this brazilian user manual:

the IP67 story is wrapped in weasel words that do NOT mean that the Defy is IP67 certified.

"O produto está em conformidade a norma IP67 para água e poeira" only means that the specs mimic the IP67 standards. It does NOT mean that the Defy is IP67 certified, just like "my education conforms to academic standards" does not mean that you have a university degree.

Is the text in your user manual different? If yes, does it say who issued the certificate?
7th June 2011, 05:41 PM |#9  
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Sorry, a little bit off the the topic. With Defy I'm glad I can take an urgent call under a heavy rain without worrying about the phone itself. That is the only expectation I had when I heard Defy was water-resistant.

As for being dust-proof, I often have to take the back cover off and clean the inside.

Just remembered this, I believe I read this today either on Motorola's own forum or on XDA's that the back cover lock starts unlocking itself with gentle push/pull. I had the very same thing happened to me, when I picked up the phone the back cover simply dropped on the floor. I think the problem with the lock not being tight enough defeats the purpose of any type of proof-resistant that Defy meant to provide.
10th June 2011, 02:55 PM |#10  
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Certification is irrelevant
hi folks,

imho for end-user it is irrelevant if it is 'certified' or not. in the manual is stated that the device has characteristics which at least fullfill IP67 ('Product meets or exceeds IP67 standard for water and dust.'). so i can expect that it does so , certified or not, as it is an assured property. i don't know the case law in different countries, but in germany you would have good prospects.

10th June 2011, 07:09 PM |#11  
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That "assured property" is not assured at all.

Originally Posted by Motorola

All features, functionality and other product specifications, as well as the information contained in this guide, are based upon the latest available information and believed to be accurate at the time of printing. Motorola reserves the right to change or modify any information or specifications without notice or obligation.

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