Some answers from Ricardo Cerqueira (CM)

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tonyp

Inactive Recognized Developer
Feb 3, 2011
5,019
34,902
Yesterday I had a short chat with arcee.
A huge thanks to him for taking his time to answer these rather "easy" questions.
I focused mainly on the questions which are floating around at xda these days, now we do have some educated answers (aka "the truth").
If someone wants to read a little more, I had collected a couple G+ quotes about Nvidia/LG from him some time back, see here.

To make this post clearer I removed some of the crap I wrote and focused on the important answers from him.
Didn't change anything in his lines of course.



tonyp: first, what's your opinion about LG & Nvidia here.
tonyp: at least it looks like we'll get an official update eventually, Paul's post from his internel LG source looks promising
arcee: LG has been working on that model since February
arcee: as far as I know, they've been stamping out bugs ever since
...
arcee: in any case, there's 2 sets of issues for a device like the 2x
arcee: 1 - for people like me, nvidia is utterly useless
arcee: I can't do anything on a tegra device unless the vendor does it first
arcee: 2 - as far as stock updates are concerned, that's almost entirely up to LG
tonyp: yes, that's really something TI and otheres are ahead of Nvidia :(
tonyp: but shouldn't LG have some kind of reference source code?
tonyp: aka something that would help "people like you" to implement it yourself
arcee: the reference code is nvidia's
arcee: LG, or any other nvidia customer, can't share it. even if they customize it (and they do), it still started from nvidia intellectual property
tonyp: yes that's obvious
tonyp: what I meant was if LG needs help from Nvidia or if they could help themselves with these reference source code
arcee: they usually have to work together, especially early on
arcee: nvidia is sloppy, their first iterations tend to be, to various degrees, broken
tonyp: Is the tegra2 chipset a problem here?
arcee: no, it isn't
arcee: the chipset is common as much
arcee: *muck
arcee: the problem is that nvidia chose a very uncommon approach to their android design
arcee: in particular, the userspace libraries and HALs have a ton of hardware-specific logic
arcee: **** that on other platforms is confined to kernel space (like "how to enable the audio amplifier" or whatever), is put in libraries when it comes to tegra
arcee: so for the most part, you can _not_ use a device's libraries on another, unless they share the same hardware components
arcee: and since nvidia publishes zero code, we can't just write our own
tonyp: iirc even things like auto brightness are controlled with nvidia libs?
arcee: yes. sensors, in this case

tonyp: and how specific is this implementation - would we need another device which uses the star platform (which aren't many) or could the Samsung Galaxy R for example help as well
tonyp: you wrote at Twitter that the ZTE Grant (or Mimosa) X won't really help
arcee: at all
arcee: the star, the galaxy R, and the grand X are completely different devices
arcee: different components, different resolutions, different radios
arcee: different audio amps, different panel manufacturers, different almost everything
arcee: the designs have nothing in common other than being T2
tonyp: so it's either LG or nothing?
arcee: yes

tonyp: and you're planning to get CM10 to the 2x then? :)
tonyp: because if I understood you correct you won't release any "broken" releases like you did with CM9 anymore. I do get the point, people blaming the apps when in reality the facebook rotation crash is related to a failed attempt of 2d hardware drawing.
arcee: if LG does come out with a release I can use, yes
arcee: else, no
tonyp: that's something :)
tonyp: and which updated libraries are exactly needed? Or are there too many to list?
arcee: pretty much everything
arcee: ICS is just too different from GB
 
Last edited:

lopiop

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2012
746
131
this will surely clear up all those queries in the ics discussion page
 

bitdomo

Senior Member
Nov 3, 2011
1,542
1,244
31
Göd
Thank you! It really helped me to understand the current situation with lg and other tegra 2 devices

Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
 

rugglez

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2011
901
2,732
Mushroom kingdom
Thanks a ton bro :)
Clears out any confusion regarding what will be of use, and what will not be if any use to us, plus who is to blame for this mess.
 

jura55

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2008
258
58
Brno
Many thanks Tonyp for this, so as I can see, the problem is nVidia...And the same what happened to us with O2X can happen to Tegra3 users... So bye bye Nexus 7...and I do not understand Google why they choose Tegra3 for Nexus7... I will never buy anything which will contain something from nVidia company....
 

tonyp

Inactive Recognized Developer
Feb 3, 2011
5,019
34,902
Many thanks Tonyp for this, so as I can see, the problem is nVidia...And the same what happened to us with O2X can happen to Tegra3 users... So bye bye Nexus 7...and I do not understand Google why they choose Tegra3 for Nexus7... I will never buy anything which will contain something from nVidia company....

I will for sure get a N7 as soon as it is launched here in the EU. It's a Nexus device after all.
And I don't think that he said Nvidia is the only one to blame - but don't make this thread to a LG vs. Nvidia one, so let's not start with that!
 
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Just got myself a new signature

arcee: the star, the galaxy R, and the grand X are completely different devices. different components, different resolutions, different radios, different audio amps,different panel manufacturers, different almost everything. The designs have nothing in common other than being T2
tonyp: so it's either LG or nothing?
arcee: yes
 

tonyp

Inactive Recognized Developer
Feb 3, 2011
5,019
34,902
Man TonyP, you've tested his nerves quite badly, answering those boring questions again and again...:laugh:

Yeah I know :D I did feel a little bad about that.
He said that most of the stuff he said there isn't new and has been said by him several times.
The plan is that by pinning it out here it will become common knowledge now.
 

rzlatic

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2012
522
247
LV-426
tonyp, you're hero of the forum. thanks.

perhaps the most positive line is arcee's "LG has been working on that model since february; as far as I know, they've been stamping out bugs ever since" and it's nice to know that, at least, for many of us here had doubts if LG is aware of that device at all. however it's a question of teamwork and both companies willings to do the job.
arcee was clear about not releasing cm10 nightie without LG/nvidia libraries at all, but we couldn't blame him. there are hopeful posts lately so we feels less forgotten :)

tonyp thanks again for sharing teh conversation!
 

I.m.Tuga

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2012
626
341
Xiaomi 12T Pro
Reading the conversation i can only come to one decision. Android=Nexus nothing more nothing less.
I'm really tired of waiting, tired of translating korean to english from lg mobile korea, tired of the same answers every single day, tired of coming here and see some double/triple posting from someone who doesn't search first.

Tonyp i'd like to thank you for those posts you shared. They gave some peace if mind.:D

Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
 

loipol84

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2011
77
42
So am I wrong to assume that CM10 even with official ICS release has very few chances to come to our mobile;

Tony big kudos to you for bothering RC with such "annoying" questions:thumbup:
 
Last edited:

mat369

Senior Member
May 4, 2011
92
10
From Tweeter:

- when CM9 stable for LG Optimus 2X?

RC: never. At this point, if and when LG does the ICS update, it'll be used for CM10

:D
 

spica1234

Retired Recognized Developer
Aug 1, 2010
3,081
3,362
India
Thats a good news.
I was telling ever since beginning LG is less responsible for our situation but nvidia;)

Sent from my LG-P990 using Tapatalk 2
 

Core Memory

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2011
1,286
735
Toronto
Thats a good news.
I was telling ever since beginning LG is less responsible for our situation but nvidia;)

Sent from my LG-P990 using Tapatalk 2

I blame them equally and Google. NVIDIA for being secretive about their source code, doing non-standard Android integration implementations, being sloppy with development and continuously releasing bug-filled code to the OEMs it sells to (even the most current release of Tegra2 code has bugs known at release). LG for using NVIDIA SOC. Google for allowing phone OEMs, such as LG, to use chips from companies, such as NVIDIA, which hide their code so that independent developers can't modify/update Android.

Google should stop tolerating closed-source code from companies such as NVIDIA in order to popularize Android and, instead, require that all companies which use Android must provide complete and transparent open-source code for everything in a device which uses Android. That would mean that LG or any other company that uses Android in a device wouldn't be able to sell that device if it uses NVIDIA or another company's chips/hardware if it doesn't provide open-source human readable source code for micro-code, firmware, etc., and the development tools too.
 

tonyp

Inactive Recognized Developer
Feb 3, 2011
5,019
34,902
I blame them equally and Google. NVIDIA for being secretive about their source code, doing non-standard Android integration implementations, being sloppy with development and continuously releasing bug-filled code to the OEMs it sells to (even the most current release of Tegra2 code has bugs known at release). LG for using NVIDIA SOC. Google for allowing phone OEMs, such as LG, to use chips from companies, such as NVIDIA, which hide their code so that independent developers can't modify/update Android.

Google should stop tolerating closed-source code from companies such as NVIDIA in order to popularize Android and, instead, require that all companies which use Android must provide complete and transparent open-source code for everything in a device which uses Android. That would mean that LG or any other company that uses Android in a device wouldn't be able to sell that device if it uses NVIDIA or another company's chips/hardware if it doesn't provide open-source human readable source code for micro-code, firmware, etc., and the development tools too.

Without the Apache license which is used by Google Android wouldn't be that popular.
So that is no argument, it's the customers choice which brand to choose after all.


Sent from my LG-P990 using xda app-developers app
 

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    Yesterday I had a short chat with arcee.
    A huge thanks to him for taking his time to answer these rather "easy" questions.
    I focused mainly on the questions which are floating around at xda these days, now we do have some educated answers (aka "the truth").
    If someone wants to read a little more, I had collected a couple G+ quotes about Nvidia/LG from him some time back, see here.

    To make this post clearer I removed some of the crap I wrote and focused on the important answers from him.
    Didn't change anything in his lines of course.



    tonyp: first, what's your opinion about LG & Nvidia here.
    tonyp: at least it looks like we'll get an official update eventually, Paul's post from his internel LG source looks promising
    arcee: LG has been working on that model since February
    arcee: as far as I know, they've been stamping out bugs ever since
    ...
    arcee: in any case, there's 2 sets of issues for a device like the 2x
    arcee: 1 - for people like me, nvidia is utterly useless
    arcee: I can't do anything on a tegra device unless the vendor does it first
    arcee: 2 - as far as stock updates are concerned, that's almost entirely up to LG
    tonyp: yes, that's really something TI and otheres are ahead of Nvidia :(
    tonyp: but shouldn't LG have some kind of reference source code?
    tonyp: aka something that would help "people like you" to implement it yourself
    arcee: the reference code is nvidia's
    arcee: LG, or any other nvidia customer, can't share it. even if they customize it (and they do), it still started from nvidia intellectual property
    tonyp: yes that's obvious
    tonyp: what I meant was if LG needs help from Nvidia or if they could help themselves with these reference source code
    arcee: they usually have to work together, especially early on
    arcee: nvidia is sloppy, their first iterations tend to be, to various degrees, broken
    tonyp: Is the tegra2 chipset a problem here?
    arcee: no, it isn't
    arcee: the chipset is common as much
    arcee: *muck
    arcee: the problem is that nvidia chose a very uncommon approach to their android design
    arcee: in particular, the userspace libraries and HALs have a ton of hardware-specific logic
    arcee: **** that on other platforms is confined to kernel space (like "how to enable the audio amplifier" or whatever), is put in libraries when it comes to tegra
    arcee: so for the most part, you can _not_ use a device's libraries on another, unless they share the same hardware components
    arcee: and since nvidia publishes zero code, we can't just write our own
    tonyp: iirc even things like auto brightness are controlled with nvidia libs?
    arcee: yes. sensors, in this case

    tonyp: and how specific is this implementation - would we need another device which uses the star platform (which aren't many) or could the Samsung Galaxy R for example help as well
    tonyp: you wrote at Twitter that the ZTE Grant (or Mimosa) X won't really help
    arcee: at all
    arcee: the star, the galaxy R, and the grand X are completely different devices
    arcee: different components, different resolutions, different radios
    arcee: different audio amps, different panel manufacturers, different almost everything
    arcee: the designs have nothing in common other than being T2
    tonyp: so it's either LG or nothing?
    arcee: yes

    tonyp: and you're planning to get CM10 to the 2x then? :)
    tonyp: because if I understood you correct you won't release any "broken" releases like you did with CM9 anymore. I do get the point, people blaming the apps when in reality the facebook rotation crash is related to a failed attempt of 2d hardware drawing.
    arcee: if LG does come out with a release I can use, yes
    arcee: else, no
    tonyp: that's something :)
    tonyp: and which updated libraries are exactly needed? Or are there too many to list?
    arcee: pretty much everything
    arcee: ICS is just too different from GB
    5
    Thats a good news.
    I was telling ever since beginning LG is less responsible for our situation but nvidia;)

    Sent from my LG-P990 using Tapatalk 2

    I blame them equally and Google. NVIDIA for being secretive about their source code, doing non-standard Android integration implementations, being sloppy with development and continuously releasing bug-filled code to the OEMs it sells to (even the most current release of Tegra2 code has bugs known at release). LG for using NVIDIA SOC. Google for allowing phone OEMs, such as LG, to use chips from companies, such as NVIDIA, which hide their code so that independent developers can't modify/update Android.

    Google should stop tolerating closed-source code from companies such as NVIDIA in order to popularize Android and, instead, require that all companies which use Android must provide complete and transparent open-source code for everything in a device which uses Android. That would mean that LG or any other company that uses Android in a device wouldn't be able to sell that device if it uses NVIDIA or another company's chips/hardware if it doesn't provide open-source human readable source code for micro-code, firmware, etc., and the development tools too.
    2
    I blame them equally and Google. NVIDIA for being secretive about their source code, doing non-standard Android integration implementations, being sloppy with development and continuously releasing bug-filled code to the OEMs it sells to (even the most current release of Tegra2 code has bugs known at release). LG for using NVIDIA SOC. Google for allowing phone OEMs, such as LG, to use chips from companies, such as NVIDIA, which hide their code so that independent developers can't modify/update Android.

    Google should stop tolerating closed-source code from companies such as NVIDIA in order to popularize Android and, instead, require that all companies which use Android must provide complete and transparent open-source code for everything in a device which uses Android. That would mean that LG or any other company that uses Android in a device wouldn't be able to sell that device if it uses NVIDIA or another company's chips/hardware if it doesn't provide open-source human readable source code for micro-code, firmware, etc., and the development tools too.

    If you really hate what LG and Nvidia is doing, don´t buy their products in the future anymore.
    As for me, I´ll never put a hand on Nvidia. In the desktop area I choose AMD and have no regrets and for smartphones, only Qualcomm will come into my pocket.
    Maybe they´ll recognize it in future, so other people can be happy with using tegra.
    2
    I still hope that the dev guys can use something from Samsung Galaxy R's new ICS build - http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_r_receives_android_40_update-news-4661.php

    Till late september its a long way to go :)

    are-you-serious.jpg
    2
    @tonyp - seen the interview ... I'm not a developer but how hard it to compare the GB and ICS builds for GalaxyR and learn something from there and try to apply to our Star? Now do you get my point? :) ...
    Picard+is+an+animal+_e4b98fb66e9de49556dda7ddf270cc3e.jpg
    are you trying to troll tonyp