Question 108MP works only with ISO <= 100 (and even then not always)

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xseryd

Member
Apr 8, 2021
22
4
Redmi Note 10 Pro
I found out that 108 MP mode only works with ISO <=100 on the Redmi note 10 pro.

Attached are crops from 108MP with ISO 100, 108 and 125. It is clear that after SO 100 the quality drops significantly. I shot the photo in 12MP as well and upscaled the photo in the PC. The resulting picture corresponded to the 108 and 125 ISO.

It would be nice to shoot 108MP at least up to ISO 400 or 800.

Moreover it seems that sometimes the 108MP is fake even though the iso is below 100. I did not find the cause of that yet.

Finally, the 108MP photos often have a green cast. It would be nice if that could be fixed as well.

The ISO_100_cr photo has a lot higher quality than ISO_125_cr and s_1_400_cr photos.
The ISO_100_a and ISO_100_b are taken about 3 minutes appart using the same settings and the same lightning conditions. However one of them uses the fake 108MP. I have no explanation for that so far.

I reported the bug using the Xiaomi Services & feedback. So far I did not get a reply.
 

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ptr21

Senior Member
  • Sep 7, 2016
    203
    73
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    I found out that 108 MP mode only works with ISO <=100 on the Redmi note 10 pro.

    Attached are crops from 108MP with ISO 100, 108 and 125. It is clear that after SO 100 the quality drops significantly. I shot the photo in 12MP as well and upscaled the photo in the PC. The resulting picture corresponded to the 108 and 125 ISO.

    It would be nice to shoot 108MP at least up to ISO 400 or 800.

    Moreover it seems that sometimes the 108MP is fake even though the iso is below 100. I did not find the cause of that yet.

    Finally, the 108MP photos often have a green cast. It would be nice if that could be fixed as well.

    The ISO_100_cr photo has a lot higher quality than ISO_125_cr and s_1_400_cr photos.
    The ISO_100_a and ISO_100_b are taken about 3 minutes appart using the same settings and the same lightning conditions. However one of them uses the fake 108MP. I have no explanation for that so far.

    I reported the bug using the Xiaomi Services & feedback. So far I did not get a reply.
    Use pro mode. Its there.
     

    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    In all of the photos above I used the pro mode. Otherwise I would not be able to set ISO manually. However the issue is in both normal and pro mode.

    The phone acts like using 108MP, but in some cases it indeed used 108MP, in other it just upscales the 12MP photo.
     

    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    Try clearing system cache and cam data.
    Try rolling cam back to factory load if it's been updated.
    I do not think the cam itself got updated, just the system to 12.0.10 MIUI Global. I cleared all the caches and the issue persists. Using pro mode 108MP with fixed ISO 100 and 125 there is a huge drop in quality in the 125 ISO.
     

    blackhawk

    Senior Member
  • Jun 23, 2020
    2,863
    592
    I do not think the cam itself got updated, just the system to 12.0.10 MIUI Global. I cleared all the caches and the issue persists. Using pro mode 108MP with fixed ISO 100 and 125 there is a huge drop in quality in the 125 ISO.
    What about using it in ISO 200?
    The drop in image Q is very small or should be.
     

    blackhawk

    Senior Member
  • Jun 23, 2020
    2,863
    592
    The pictures look almost the same for ISO 50-100. Then there is a sharp drop in quality and than the pictures are almost the same for ISO 125-500. ISO 1000 is noticeably softer, but that is to be expected.
    If it's native ISO is 100, don't drop below that unless the ambient light is too bright.
    Use at it's native ISO # or higher whenever possible. Its native ISO is probably 100 but never assume...
     

    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    If it's native ISO is 100, don't drop below that unless the ambient light is too bright.
    Use at it's native ISO # or higher whenever possible. Its native ISO is probably 100 but never assume...
    The automatic mode tries to use ISO 50 if there is enough light, so I guess that is the native ISO. However that does not solve the issue that for ISO > 100 the photo looks suspiciously similar to what I get when I shoot 12 MP and upscale the picture in the pc. And unfortunately even for <=100 it is not guaranteed to shoot the true 108 MP.
     

    blackhawk

    Senior Member
  • Jun 23, 2020
    2,863
    592
    The automatic mode tries to use ISO 50 if there is enough light, so I guess that is the native ISO. However that does not solve the issue that for ISO > 100 the photo looks suspiciously similar to what I get when I shoot 12 MP and upscale the picture in the pc. And unfortunately even for <=100 it is not guaranteed to shoot the true 108 MP.
    You need to see what its native ISO is speced at to know.
    Poor focus* and cam shake can be factors.
    The 108 MP file size should be significantly larger than the 12 MP one.


    *the wrong AF lock on point can trash images taken with a fast lense; the focal range is quit narrow at close range. Try some shots at 50 feet out.
     

    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    All the photos mentioned above are at least 50 feet away and all have shutter time 1/300 or faster, so shake should not be an issue. The two last photos with the cherry tree even have ~1/1700s time and the issue is still visible.

    Finally the picture size of the real 108MP files is 23-25MB, whereas the picture size of the faked ones is 14-18MB. Even there there seems to be something wrong.
     

    blackhawk

    Senior Member
  • Jun 23, 2020
    2,863
    592
    All the photos mentioned above are at least 50 feet away and all have shutter time 1/300 or faster, so shake should not be an issue. The two last photos with the cherry tree even have ~1/1700s time and the issue is still visible.

    Finally the picture size of the real 108MP files is 23-25MB, whereas the picture size of the faked ones is 14-18MB. Even there there seems to be something wrong.
    Size of the file varies by the content, sometimes drastically. It still could be an AF issue, try manual focus if you have that option.

    Cam shake can happen at almost any shutter setting; brace the cam on something solid.
    Because there is no weight to the phone compared to 2-7 pounds of a pro- cam means little inertia to over come and no good handholds... cam shake is more an issue.
    You can get cam shake at 1/1000 @Sec with a pro cam if your technique is sloppy.
    Review the cam settings carefully and double check them.

    I don't know, you could be right. It seems like it be a poor business plan though. It may be an inadvertent flaw on that production run and/or the firmware for it.
     

    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    Size of the file varies by the content, sometimes drastically. It still could be an AF issue, try manual focus if you have that option.

    Cam shake can happen at almost any shutter setting; brace the cam on something solid.
    Because there is no weight to the phone compared to 2-7 pounds of a pro- cam means little inertia to over come and no good handholds... cam shake is more an issue.
    You can get cam shake at 1/1000 @Sec with a pro cam if your technique is sloppy.
    Review the cam settings carefully and double check them.

    I don't know, you could be right. It seems like it be a poor business plan though. It may be an inadvertent flaw on that production run and/or the firmware for it.
    Just to be sure I did the test again using a tripod and a self timer. Still the same results. I could not use the manual focus mode, because the "infinity" seems to be only a few feet and my objects came out blurry.
    The file difference was on the same scene, taken 10s apart. 24MB real 108MB, 14MB faked 108MB.
     

    jmfb55

    Senior Member
    Sep 26, 2020
    55
    14
    Realme 7 Pro
    I have taken several photos in 108 in low light and the behavior of the Iso is correct.
    It always maintains 108 and the Iso obtained go from 581 to 12800, I suppose it can go up a little more.
    Logically, the higher the iso, the lower the quality and more with such small objectives.
    I am very happy with the camera results and I come from a Pixel 2.
     

    blackhawk

    Senior Member
  • Jun 23, 2020
    2,863
    592
    Well for one thing use solid objects that aren't able to be moved by the wind as subjects preferably with the light source in back of you rather than in back of the subject.
    A wrought iron fence maybe.
    24 mp is actually a lot. It's not just the pixel count but also the quality, grey depth, color accuracy that the individual pixel can capture.
     

    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    Well for one thing use solid objects that aren't able to be moved by the wind as subjects preferably with the light source in back of you rather than in back of the subject.
    A wrought iron fence maybe.
    24 mp is actually a lot. It's not just the pixel count but also the quality, grey depth, color accuracy that the individual pixel can capture.
    I selected branches because there the difference was the most obvious. There was no wind at all. I attach different part of the picture with a solid object.
     

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    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    I have taken several photos in 108 in low light and the behavior of the Iso is correct.
    It always maintains 108 and the Iso obtained go from 581 to 12800, I suppose it can go up a little more.
    Logically, the higher the iso, the lower the quality and more with such small objectives.
    I am very happy with the camera results and I come from a Pixel 2.
    The camera reports all of the 108MP photos to be 108MP. However I believe that sometimes the picture was taken using 12MP and then just upscaled to 108MP using a software.
     

    xseryd

    Member
    Apr 8, 2021
    22
    4
    Redmi Note 10 Pro
    Good obsevation. I can't get my phone to make 20+mb pictures. I tried with your setting so: 108MP & iso 50 but no luck. Photos still come out between 14-17mb.
    Sometimes I get the fake 108MP even with small ISO. I don't understand that. Or maybe your scene is not that complex and the file is smaller even though it is the real 108MP. Try using ISO 125 if you see a size and quality difference. You can also try shooting 12MP and upscaling the picture in PC to see if it is the same as what you shot in 108MP.
     

    blackhawk

    Senior Member
  • Jun 23, 2020
    2,863
    592
    Good obsevation. I can't get my phone to make 20+mb pictures. I tried with your setting so: 108MP & iso 50 but no luck. Photos still come out between 14-17mb.
    MP=megapixels
    MB=megabytes
    The correlation between file size and the number of megapixels is a not strictly a ratiometric one.
    Without the manufacturer's white papers it's hard to know exactly how they are processing the image. Companies like Canon and Denon usually exceed their specifications, and often share detailed information beyond just the specs.

    ♤Does the cam allow you to shoot in RAW mode?
    Try that if so. That should give a more revealing look at what's going on. RAW's have the least post processing and contain much more of the image data.
     

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    • 1
      At some point you will reach the limits of your optics including the pixel lens. 12 mp is a decent size sample...
      Well that is clear. The fact remains that when the photo does make a 108MP photo it looks a lot better than the 12MP photo. Therefore I would like it to be fixed to work consistently and even for ISO > 100.
      1
      Interesting. Did you try and play around with the advanced settings of the camera app? The one where you put lab_options_visible in the Camera folder, and experimental features/advanced settings will appear.
    • 1
      I found out that 108 MP mode only works with ISO <=100 on the Redmi note 10 pro.

      Attached are crops from 108MP with ISO 100, 108 and 125. It is clear that after SO 100 the quality drops significantly. I shot the photo in 12MP as well and upscaled the photo in the PC. The resulting picture corresponded to the 108 and 125 ISO.

      It would be nice to shoot 108MP at least up to ISO 400 or 800.

      Moreover it seems that sometimes the 108MP is fake even though the iso is below 100. I did not find the cause of that yet.

      Finally, the 108MP photos often have a green cast. It would be nice if that could be fixed as well.

      The ISO_100_cr photo has a lot higher quality than ISO_125_cr and s_1_400_cr photos.
      The ISO_100_a and ISO_100_b are taken about 3 minutes appart using the same settings and the same lightning conditions. However one of them uses the fake 108MP. I have no explanation for that so far.

      I reported the bug using the Xiaomi Services & feedback. So far I did not get a reply.
      1
      What about using it in ISO 200?
      The drop in image Q is very small or should be.
      The pictures look almost the same for ISO 50-100. Then there is a sharp drop in quality and than the pictures are almost the same for ISO 125-500. ISO 1000 is noticeably softer, but that is to be expected.
      1
      At some point you will reach the limits of your optics including the pixel lens. 12 mp is a decent size sample...
      Well that is clear. The fact remains that when the photo does make a 108MP photo it looks a lot better than the 12MP photo. Therefore I would like it to be fixed to work consistently and even for ISO > 100.
      1
      Interesting. Did you try and play around with the advanced settings of the camera app? The one where you put lab_options_visible in the Camera folder, and experimental features/advanced settings will appear.
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