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5x hardware bootloop cause / fix ?

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sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
UPDATE:
Confirmation reflow fixes 5x hardware bootloop
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nex...-cause-fix-t3476794/post70123267#post70123267

UPDATE:
If you are having what appears to be hardware bootloop problem update this Poll
https://goo.gl/forms/Ga8gZgG7GEgBIply1
or see results
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...D4IdwEWZYb2NKA/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm
====
I was looking into the eMMC chip on this phone on the assumption it was causing the bootloop. I wanted to look at other phones that have the same Toshiba HS400 chip we use. I found some references to LG G4 and then started seeing LG G4 phones were also having a bootloop problem with similar symptoms, phone just turns off all of a sudden then is stuck in bootloop.

This led to finding articles that LG acknowledged a hardware problem with solder connections on the LG G4 mainboard.

I am wondering if this is the same problem affecting Nexus 5x since the LG G4 is pretty much a cousin of the 5x.

I don't know for sure this is the problem we are seeing, just a potential culprit.

This article has more information

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/lg-g4-bootloop-problem-how-to-diagnose-and-fix

In the article there is mention of a special TOT file that can be flashed on the G4 that turns off the big cores and lets the phone boot in a slow mode running on just the small cores.


This video shows you can use a SMD rework station to heat up the CPU and eMMC memory chip, reestablishing the solder connections underneath the chips and getting your phone to work again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeuMBD9r4GI


This is the statement LG made about the LG G4
http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-g4-bootloop-petition-669421/

Here’s the full statement LG made to Android Authority:

LG Electronics has been made aware of a booting issue with the LG G4 smartphone that has now been identified as resulting from a loose contact between components. Customers who are experiencing booting issues with their LG G4s should contact their local carrier from where the G4 was purchased or a nearby LG Service Center (www.lg.com/common) for repair under full warranty.

Customers who purchased their G4 devices from non-carrier retailers should contact an LG Service Center with the understanding that warranty conditions will differ. LG Electronics is committed to providing the highest standards of product quality and customer service and apologizes for the inconvenience caused to some of our customers who initially received incorrect diagnoses.
 
Last edited:

ch.ch1

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2012
103
2
NYC
I was looking into the eMMC chip on this phone on the assumption it was causing the bootloop. I wanted to look at other phones that have the same Toshiba HS400 chip we use. I found the LG G4 used the same chip and then started seeing LG G4 phones were also having a bootloop problem with similar symptoms, phone just turns off all of a sudden then is stuck in bootloop.

This led to finding articles that LG acknowledged a hardware problem with solder connections on the LG G4 mainboard.

I am wondering if this is the same problem affecting Nexus 5x since the LG G4 is pretty much a cousin of the 5x.

I don't know for sure this is the problem we are seeing, just a potential culprit.

This article has more information

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/lg-g4-bootloop-problem-how-to-diagnose-and-fix

In the article there is mention of a special TOT file that can be flashed on the G4 that turns off the big cores and lets the phone boot in a slow mode running on just the small cores.


This video shows you can use a SMD rework station to heat up the CPU and eMMC memory chip, reestablishing the solder connection and getting your phone to work again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeuMBD9r4GI
I do know that LG gave me a new motherboard in my Nexus 5X
 

sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
Hi. I tested my 5x https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.vinagre.android.emmc_check&hl=pl. It showed that emmc is Toshiba 032G74. Test passed without problems. I haven't updated to 7 yet, because I would like to avoid eventually problem with bootloop.
The problem that was pointed out for the LG G4 cousin of this 5x phone is not that the eMMC chip is defective, rather the solder connection to either the eMMC or the CPU is faulty, so in that case it wouldn't matter which eMMC chip you had.

I am trying to get some discussion about what the cause of the problem is on the 5x using the G4 bootloop problem as a starting point.

As to the eMMC info, if you want the information about your emmc you can also do

Code:
su
cd /sys/bus/mmc/devices/mmc0:0001/
cat name date fwrev hwrev manfid oemid

032G74
07/1999
0x0
0x0
0x000011
0x0100

also you can reboot your phone and type

Code:
bullhead:/ $ dmesg | grep mmc0
[    1.914434] mmc0: no vqmmc regulator found
[    1.914459] mmc0: no vmmc regulator found
[    1.914736] mmc0: SDHCI controller on f9824900.sdhci [f9824900.sdhci] using 32-bit ADMA
[    2.046259] mmc0: BKOPS_EN bit = 0
[    2.063777] mmc0: new HS400 MMC card at address 0001
[    2.064305] mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 032G74 29.1 GiB
 

Wuzimu

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
104
26
Cracow
OnePlus Nord 2 5G
I found this post on google forum.
#210 [email protected]

Fixed !
A little bit tricky:
- Unlock your phone (this will wipe your data)
- Flash the lasted Nougat release NRD90S with the wipe option (fastboot -w ...) You have to flash all the partitions including userdata.
- Boot
- Do a factory reset, this is important, in some case, the userdata partition has a wrong size.
- Done !

It seems that the last OTA Nougat update bricks the phone. This not an hardware issue in my case.
Google, I hope that the next OTA update won't brick the phone !
 
Last edited:

innov

Senior Member
Dec 19, 2010
70
7
Is there any info about Nexus 5x or LG G4 reliability (ratio manufactured / repaired or bootloop) like the one in hard drive reliability report? I'm curious how many phones actually got real hardware problem with this nougat bootloop because it seems google / LG hasn't responded quickly for this problem or at least address the root cause of it.
 

sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
I found this post on google forum.
Not all bootloops are hardware problems.

If people experience a random reboot, then bootloop issue using total stock with locked bootloader, this is almost definitely a hardware issue.

This is further confirmed if they go through the effort of flashing TOT file using LGUP and it still doesn't work. With that extra step and the above conditions, it can almost be guaranteed it is a hardware problem.

If one has unlocked bootloader and has been playing with different kernels, restoring stuff in TWRP, switching back between nougat and marshmallow, etc. then yes it could be software problem.

BTW in that post the person indicated needing to do factory reset because the userdata size is wrong. That indicates he at one point flashed the userdata partition by hand, because if you flash the userdata as part of the zip file using -w option (ie what the factory image script does) you will never have the problem of userdata being wrong size.
 
Last edited:

sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
Is there any info about Nexus 5x or LG G4 reliability (ratio manufactured / repaired or bootloop) like the one in hard drive reliability report? I'm curious how many phones actually got real hardware problem with this nougat bootloop because it seems google / LG hasn't responded quickly for this problem or at least address the root cause of it.
There is a petition for LG G4 where people were signing on to get LG to replace the G4s. It is unclear if everyone signing on was affected or not but they were up to 8k signature.

https://www.change.org/p/lg-mobile-launch-a-replacement-program-for-defective-lg-g4s

Android Authority mentioned LG acknowledged the problem and would fix phones affected but the details seemed kind of lacking. Main issue being if these would be fixed outside of warranty.

http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-g4-bootloop-petition-669421/

Here’s the full statement LG made to Android Authority:

LG Electronics has been made aware of a booting issue with the LG G4 smartphone that has now been identified as resulting from a loose contact between components. Customers who are experiencing booting issues with their LG G4s should contact their local carrier from where the G4 was purchased or a nearby LG Service Center (www.lg.com/common) for repair under full warranty.

Customers who purchased their G4 devices from non-carrier retailers should contact an LG Service Center with the understanding that warranty conditions will differ. LG Electronics is committed to providing the highest standards of product quality and customer service and apologizes for the inconvenience caused to some of our customers who initially received incorrect diagnoses.
 

Siljorfag

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
147
46
Warsaw
I had this bootloop too, after updatong to 7.0. I spent whole day to repair my phone. Wipe, and flashing diffrent images did not work, even twrp backups with working efs. After 20 times of flashing stock images + another twrp backup phone just suddenly booted fine, and working to this day without any problem.

Soo DONT GIVE UP GUYS!
 
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sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
I had this bootloop too, after updatong to 7.0. I spent whole day to repair my phone. Wipe, and flashing diffrent images did not work, even twrp backups with working efs. After 20 times of flashing stock images + another twrp backup phone just suddenly booted fine, and working to this day without any problem.
Sometimes if it is emmc eventually it locks out enough bad blocks to start working again.
 
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Flyview

Senior Member
May 17, 2010
2,473
1,641
Toronto/San Diego
I'm in the same boat. I was scrolling through Instagram when the phone froze, restarted, and then just kept restarting without being able to get past the Google logo. I was on stock 7.0 (but August or September security update), stock kernel, but rooted with SuperSU 2.76 and TWRP 3.0.2-1. I couldn't even boot into TWRP, it would bootloop at the Google logo just the same. After placing it in the freezer for 30min to an hour I was able to boot into TWRP long enough to save all my data. (My original thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexu...osing-t3479986)

Google also sent me a replacement, manufactured 10/2015, the original being 09/2015. I'm afraid this will likely happen again! The problem is we only get the original warranty, so I have until January 21st, 2017.
 
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sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
Yea I asked them twice but please confirm and report back.
Not directed at you, but honestly, for this type of problem, where it is almost definitely a manufacturing defect in components or assembly, I think the least they could do is give you a full warranty from the replacement date. It isn't like you are the only example of this.

If people wanted to organize, from the standpoint of publicity, things could look a lot worse with the media looking for stuff like this after Note 7 and now some reports of iPhone 7 batteries issues.

LG/Google have their own melting USB port problem in addition to the solder joints and/or eMMC chip problem.
 

Mirarchi

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2009
55
44
Same here. My 5x rebooted on chrome on stock 7.1.1 and on the next boot it has frozen with graphics artefacts on google logo. On the next restart frozen again after few seconds on the settings tab. Before the die, i've reverted to 6.0 and locked the bootloader. After that definetely died. The graphics artefacts led me to think about an hardware issue...
 

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  • 11
    UPDATE:
    Confirmation reflow fixes 5x hardware bootloop
    http://forum.xda-developers.com/nex...-cause-fix-t3476794/post70123267#post70123267

    UPDATE:
    If you are having what appears to be hardware bootloop problem update this Poll
    https://goo.gl/forms/Ga8gZgG7GEgBIply1
    or see results
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...D4IdwEWZYb2NKA/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm
    ====
    I was looking into the eMMC chip on this phone on the assumption it was causing the bootloop. I wanted to look at other phones that have the same Toshiba HS400 chip we use. I found some references to LG G4 and then started seeing LG G4 phones were also having a bootloop problem with similar symptoms, phone just turns off all of a sudden then is stuck in bootloop.

    This led to finding articles that LG acknowledged a hardware problem with solder connections on the LG G4 mainboard.

    I am wondering if this is the same problem affecting Nexus 5x since the LG G4 is pretty much a cousin of the 5x.

    I don't know for sure this is the problem we are seeing, just a potential culprit.

    This article has more information

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/lg-g4-bootloop-problem-how-to-diagnose-and-fix

    In the article there is mention of a special TOT file that can be flashed on the G4 that turns off the big cores and lets the phone boot in a slow mode running on just the small cores.


    This video shows you can use a SMD rework station to heat up the CPU and eMMC memory chip, reestablishing the solder connections underneath the chips and getting your phone to work again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeuMBD9r4GI


    This is the statement LG made about the LG G4
    http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-g4-bootloop-petition-669421/

    Here’s the full statement LG made to Android Authority:

    LG Electronics has been made aware of a booting issue with the LG G4 smartphone that has now been identified as resulting from a loose contact between components. Customers who are experiencing booting issues with their LG G4s should contact their local carrier from where the G4 was purchased or a nearby LG Service Center (www.lg.com/common) for repair under full warranty.

    Customers who purchased their G4 devices from non-carrier retailers should contact an LG Service Center with the understanding that warranty conditions will differ. LG Electronics is committed to providing the highest standards of product quality and customer service and apologizes for the inconvenience caused to some of our customers who initially received incorrect diagnoses.
    8
    I just fixed my nexus 5x bootloop issue. It is a hardware issue so don't waste time in downgrading or changing the stock ROMs. I learned it the hard way and lost all the data in the process. Here are the simple steps to resolve the issue:
    1) Open the back cover using the plastic screw driver. I used old credit card. Start from the USB port and go upwards.
    2) Remove all the screws from the inner black cover.
    3) Carefully remove the battery connector, USB connector and 2 camera connectors.
    4) Remove the battery using a flat tool. It might be a glued but will come out.
    5) Lift the circuit board and remove the heat sheet using the plastic tool.
    6) Notice the 2 black squares chipsets. We need to apply heat to the bigger chipset.
    7) Take a hair dryer and use a aluminium foil to narrow down its opening. I made a cone with small opening and used tape to stick it to the hair dryer.
    8) Use heat on the chipset for a minute or 2 till it gets a little hot. Press it with your hand and thumb. Do not overheat the chipset.
    9) That is it. Put it back and test your phone. It worked for me.
    4
    Why is lg giving refunds, cant they fix it like that?
    To fix these things for real, they probably need to figure out what went wrong with manufacturing and do a manufacturing design change. It is much cheaper to just give your money back. Even the parts they are using for repairs probably suffer from the same problem.

    LG cannot reball using leaded solder balls (which would probably alleviate or eliminate the problem) due to environmental regulations. Reballing using leaded solder is more robust even with less attention to heating profiles (leaded solder melts all at the same temperature while lead-free solder is non-eutectic, meaning the different metals melt at different temperatures, so you have to be very careful in the heating of the board to follow a specific script) As a home user, if you want you can reball using leaded solder but it is an expensive and time consuming process.

    LG can easily reflow your board though, but IMO that just pushes the problem further down the road because it doesn't fix the core issue of weakend joints, which might be solder ball quality problem, heating profile problem, design issue with not enough heat dissipation, or board warping due to repeated heat/cool cycles. It could be any one of those problems.

    So reball using leaded solder is like using brand new more robust glue to fix the problem. Reflow is like crazy gluing the existing broken joints. I'm taking liberties in my descriptions.
    3
    I am also guessing that if you open up the unit and fashion some sort of shunt from cardboard box then use non-conductive tape to tape ontop of cpu and memory chip so that when you put the phone back together, pressure is applied to the chips, you can probably get it working for a while, at least long enough to get data off of it.

    Not a long term solution either, because the chips will probably overheat.

    So the root causes for this problem MIGHT have been any of the following:
    - the original solder balls were slightly unequal sizes making the solder connections weak for some of the connections weaker
    - the substrate/motherboard may have been slightly warped causing uneven stress in some areas
    - there may have been some impurities in the manufacturing process
    - the heat profile may have been off for the type of solder used. Unlike lead solder, lead-free solder is non eutectic, which means the different metals in the solder melt at different temperatures (leaded solder melts completely at one temperature) If you don't heat to certain levels then increase the heat to other levels and the proper schedule, you won't get strong joints
    - insufficient heat management could lead to undue stress on joints, possibly due to board slightly warping and adding stress to already weakened joints
    - there are probably other explanations people in manufacturing can tell you

    So your options to get things working are:
    1) send it in for RMA, either Google, Project Fi, or LG
    2) call your credit card and ask for warranty under their extended warranty program
    3) stick it in the freezer and hope enough moisture or contraction is present to connect the fissure/crack that formed in the solder or the board warps back to a form that releaves pressure on the connector so it can form connection again
    4) "reflow" the solder by heating up the chips using either precise temperature controlled hot air rework station or go ghetto and use something like a hair dryer or heat gun. reflow means you are trying to get the existing solder to heat up and melt to close the fissure/crack, but the underlying problem might still be there, like insufficient solder, warped board, solder impurities, poor heat management causing stress on joints, etc., so problem will probably return
    5) "reball" using leaded solder balls of high quality (uniform size). This would be much more costly but would probably permanently fix the problem
    reballing looks like this (video is for xbox360)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atSQBCpgA1E
    6) open up the unit and place some cardboard shunt to apply pressure to the CPU and eMMC chips to try and have the fissures closed when the unit is reassembled and downward pressure is applied on the chips.
    2
    Hi. I tested my 5x https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.vinagre.android.emmc_check&hl=pl. It showed that emmc is Toshiba 032G74. Test passed without problems. I haven't updated to 7 yet, because I would like to avoid eventually problem with bootloop.
    The problem that was pointed out for the LG G4 cousin of this 5x phone is not that the eMMC chip is defective, rather the solder connection to either the eMMC or the CPU is faulty, so in that case it wouldn't matter which eMMC chip you had.

    I am trying to get some discussion about what the cause of the problem is on the 5x using the G4 bootloop problem as a starting point.

    As to the eMMC info, if you want the information about your emmc you can also do

    Code:
    su
    cd /sys/bus/mmc/devices/mmc0:0001/
    cat name date fwrev hwrev manfid oemid
    
    032G74
    07/1999
    0x0
    0x0
    0x000011
    0x0100

    also you can reboot your phone and type

    Code:
    bullhead:/ $ dmesg | grep mmc0
    [    1.914434] mmc0: no vqmmc regulator found
    [    1.914459] mmc0: no vmmc regulator found
    [    1.914736] mmc0: SDHCI controller on f9824900.sdhci [f9824900.sdhci] using 32-bit ADMA
    [    2.046259] mmc0: BKOPS_EN bit = 0
    [    2.063777] mmc0: new HS400 MMC card at address 0001
    [    2.064305] mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 032G74 29.1 GiB