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5x hardware bootloop cause / fix ?

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rallivan

Member
May 24, 2016
13
3
Thanks sfhub for starting another great thread on the continuing 5X problems.

My wife's LG G4 had to be sent off to LG repair for the bootloop problem back in August, and right around the same time I had to send my 5X in for a defective touchscreen. When I got it back they just noted "replaced touch window". It worked great for a week or two while I was on MM, then I finally decided to upgrade to Nougat and now I get random reoboots. At first I thought it was just related to a weird WiFi issue because once I stopped using WiFi I could go hours of usage without seeing anything. But now I get reboots no matter what I'm doing. Sometimes it comes back OK, and sometimes it freezes on the android animation and you have to hard power it off. Then just yesterday I got the "RED Corrupt data warning" after a random reboot and all of this is on a stock non-rooted device. So I went ahead and started the paperwork and am sending it back to LG AGAIN :mad:. I almost wonder if when they replaced the touch window they heated it up too long to remove it from the glass and ended up causing this problem as well. I noted in my description to them that this is the second repair and I would like a new device, but we'll see if they actually honor that. So it looks like I'm back to using my trusty Nexus 4 till I get my 5X back from repair. LG's build quality has definitely taken a step down, I love being on the Nexus family and receiving the latest updates, but looks like I will be switching manufacturers because a less then 1 year old device should not be having problems like this already, when my old LG Nexus 4 which was a launch device from back in 2013 is still working like brand new. And I feel that the new Pixel phones are too expensive and untested still for reliability.
 
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sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
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Then just yesterday I got the "RED Corrupt data warning" after a random reboot and all of this is on a stock non-rooted device.
I agree with your conclusion, if you get the RED corrupt data message all of a sudden on locked bootloader running stock, it is almost definitely eMMC failure, either the chip or the solder joints.

Interesting enough on Nougat, they added forward error correction, so minor eMMC failure could actually be masked and recovered from because "error correction" can "repair" limited errors using redundant bits.

If you look in the dmesg log you'll see "fec" entries when error correction is doing its thing.
 

NX3

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2010
155
15
I get my phone back from LG repair centre tomorrow, do we think its ok to use the phone on 7.0 given the heat issues it introduced (as mentioned in this thread) ? Or should I update to 7.1 beta hoping they've fixed the issue causing the phone to get so hot and desolder itself.
 

sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
I get my phone back from LG repair centre tomorrow, do we think its ok to use the phone on 7.0 given the heat issues it introduced (as mentioned in this thread) ? Or should I update to 7.1 beta hoping they've fixed the issue causing the phone to get so hot and desolder itself.
This can happen to you with MM also. It is an issue with the solder or the eMMC chip, not something specific to 7.0.

Just run whichever version you want and back up your data.
 

th3g1z

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2011
227
298
Fwiw, I had this issue a month or so ago, and device started reboot cycle all of a sudden and would not boot properly. I put the device in the freezer for a short period and it booted. Following this, I made an ice bath (sort of anyway.. used some frozen gel packs on top and below phone and zip lock bags and a cloth to prevent phone from getting wet/condensation) plugged in to PC- device stayed booted long enough to back up my data at least (and wipe/relock bootloader).

Creating a custom tot is an interesting idea though- reducing temperature by running less cores would be better than worrying about condensation while in an ice bath :p


Google replaced it with overnight shipping, I purchased the device when it launched so mine was from the first batch for sure. There is reason to suspect LG made adjustments to the device later in production due to the acknowledged G4 issues, but who knows for sure. The replacement device came with security patches through 2/15 not sure when it was manufactured though.
 
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Flyview

Senior Member
May 17, 2010
2,473
1,641
Toronto/San Diego
Fwiw, I had this issue a month or so ago, and device started reboot cycle all of a sudden and would not boot properly. I put the device in the freezer for a short period and it booted. Following this, I made an ice bath (sort of anyway.. used some frozen gel packs on top and below phone and zip lock bags and a cloth to prevent phone from getting wet/condensation) plugged in to PC- device stayed booted long enough to back up my data at least (and wipe/relock bootloader).

Creating a custom tot is an interesting idea though- reducing temperature by running less cores would be better than worrying about condensation while in an ice bath :p


Google replaced it with overnight shipping, I purchased the device when it launched so mine was from the first batch for sure. There is reason to suspect LG made adjustments to the device later in production due to the acknowledged G4 issues, but who knows for sure. The replacement device came with security patches through 2/15 not sure when it was manufactured though.

The manufactured date is on the box. I think my replacement was only a month newer than my original that had this problem. Curious what your date is on the replacement!
 

th3g1z

Senior Member
Mar 29, 2011
227
298
The manufactured date is on the box. I think my replacement was only a month newer than my original that had this problem. Curious what your date is on the replacement!

Google sent me replacement in a brown cardboard box which I don't recall markings on, but I sent my defective unit back in the same box so I can't check unfortunately.
 

bblzd

Senior Member
Nov 6, 2013
2,291
567
Toronto
I get my phone back from LG repair centre tomorrow, do we think its ok to use the phone on 7.0 given the heat issues it introduced (as mentioned in this thread) ? Or should I update to 7.1 beta hoping they've fixed the issue causing the phone to get so hot and desolder itself.

7.0 did not introduce any heat issues. Phones regularly heat up and cool down and solder can degrade, this has been a common issue with electronics for a long time.
 
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AlienTeck

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2016
248
103
But why is this problem only happening around the time of the N7 upgrade is the bigger question.. There might be the solder issue but the hardware itself was changed on the phones made after Jan16. So this was only an issue to the phones in the initial release. I can see the boot loop issue as being a crc failure and rebooting. But a dead phone? Not a heavy user or abusive, usually left the phone on the desk. Plays a few minor games a few hours indoors. So the phone itself had nothing to complain about before it just shut off one morning and died. But it worked just fine for the 6 months before that day and even on the N7 preview it was fine dying only on the day the N7 on got released.
 

sfhub

Senior Member
Oct 23, 2008
5,342
7,220
But why is this problem only happening around the time of the N7 upgrade is the bigger question.. There might be the solder issue but the hardware itself was changed on the phones made after Jan16. So this was only an issue to the phones in the initial release. I can see the boot loop issue as being a crc failure and rebooting. But a dead phone? Not a heavy user or abusive, usually left the phone on the desk. Plays a few minor games a few hours indoors. So the phone itself had nothing to complain about before it just shut off one morning and died. But it worked just fine for the 6 months before that day and even on the N7 preview it was fine dying only on the day the N7 on got released.
The phones were dying before also. If you search you will find periodic reports. It is magnified now with 7.0 because it is being more publicized and peoples' warranties are running out so there is more anxiety.

The bootloops on MM were just chalked up to isolated instances replaced under warranty.

If you want more evidence it is hardware, the phones being sent to LG are being replaced with motherboard/emmc/memory or motheroboard/overheat.

Also a couple of people have found that bootlooped phones can be made to temporarily work by sticking the phone in the freezer, not really the sign of a software issue.

If there is any relationship to 7.0 it might be that for some people there phones may run a little hotter, but that is pure conjecture.
 
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AlienTeck

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2016
248
103
The manufactured date is on the box. I think my replacement was only a month newer than my original that had this problem. Curious what your date is on the replacement!

You can run a program that checks when the flash was made so it would be close.. Or you can use the IMEI number which shows the exact date it was produced. Th old and new phones do work slightly differently. You did not need an OTG USB cable to connect to a PC on the original and did not have to disable USB debugging to access the phones memory either..
 

Maneet Mathur

New member
Nov 29, 2016
2
8
I just fixed my nexus 5x bootloop issue. It is a hardware issue so don't waste time in downgrading or changing the stock ROMs. I learned it the hard way and lost all the data in the process. Here are the simple steps to resolve the issue:
1) Open the back cover using the plastic screw driver. I used old credit card. Start from the USB port and go upwards.
2) Remove all the screws from the inner black cover.
3) Carefully remove the battery connector, USB connector and 2 camera connectors.
4) Remove the battery using a flat tool. It might be a glued but will come out.
5) Lift the circuit board and remove the heat sheet using the plastic tool.
6) Notice the 2 black squares chipsets. We need to apply heat to the bigger chipset.
7) Take a hair dryer and use a aluminium foil to narrow down its opening. I made a cone with small opening and used tape to stick it to the hair dryer.
8) Use heat on the chipset for a minute or 2 till it gets a little hot. Press it with your hand and thumb. Do not overheat the chipset.
9) That is it. Put it back and test your phone. It worked for me.
 

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  • 11
    UPDATE:
    Confirmation reflow fixes 5x hardware bootloop
    http://forum.xda-developers.com/nex...-cause-fix-t3476794/post70123267#post70123267

    UPDATE:
    If you are having what appears to be hardware bootloop problem update this Poll
    https://goo.gl/forms/Ga8gZgG7GEgBIply1
    or see results
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...D4IdwEWZYb2NKA/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm
    ====
    I was looking into the eMMC chip on this phone on the assumption it was causing the bootloop. I wanted to look at other phones that have the same Toshiba HS400 chip we use. I found some references to LG G4 and then started seeing LG G4 phones were also having a bootloop problem with similar symptoms, phone just turns off all of a sudden then is stuck in bootloop.

    This led to finding articles that LG acknowledged a hardware problem with solder connections on the LG G4 mainboard.

    I am wondering if this is the same problem affecting Nexus 5x since the LG G4 is pretty much a cousin of the 5x.

    I don't know for sure this is the problem we are seeing, just a potential culprit.

    This article has more information

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/lg-g4-bootloop-problem-how-to-diagnose-and-fix

    In the article there is mention of a special TOT file that can be flashed on the G4 that turns off the big cores and lets the phone boot in a slow mode running on just the small cores.


    This video shows you can use a SMD rework station to heat up the CPU and eMMC memory chip, reestablishing the solder connections underneath the chips and getting your phone to work again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeuMBD9r4GI


    This is the statement LG made about the LG G4
    http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-g4-bootloop-petition-669421/

    Here’s the full statement LG made to Android Authority:

    LG Electronics has been made aware of a booting issue with the LG G4 smartphone that has now been identified as resulting from a loose contact between components. Customers who are experiencing booting issues with their LG G4s should contact their local carrier from where the G4 was purchased or a nearby LG Service Center (www.lg.com/common) for repair under full warranty.

    Customers who purchased their G4 devices from non-carrier retailers should contact an LG Service Center with the understanding that warranty conditions will differ. LG Electronics is committed to providing the highest standards of product quality and customer service and apologizes for the inconvenience caused to some of our customers who initially received incorrect diagnoses.
    8
    I just fixed my nexus 5x bootloop issue. It is a hardware issue so don't waste time in downgrading or changing the stock ROMs. I learned it the hard way and lost all the data in the process. Here are the simple steps to resolve the issue:
    1) Open the back cover using the plastic screw driver. I used old credit card. Start from the USB port and go upwards.
    2) Remove all the screws from the inner black cover.
    3) Carefully remove the battery connector, USB connector and 2 camera connectors.
    4) Remove the battery using a flat tool. It might be a glued but will come out.
    5) Lift the circuit board and remove the heat sheet using the plastic tool.
    6) Notice the 2 black squares chipsets. We need to apply heat to the bigger chipset.
    7) Take a hair dryer and use a aluminium foil to narrow down its opening. I made a cone with small opening and used tape to stick it to the hair dryer.
    8) Use heat on the chipset for a minute or 2 till it gets a little hot. Press it with your hand and thumb. Do not overheat the chipset.
    9) That is it. Put it back and test your phone. It worked for me.
    4
    Why is lg giving refunds, cant they fix it like that?
    To fix these things for real, they probably need to figure out what went wrong with manufacturing and do a manufacturing design change. It is much cheaper to just give your money back. Even the parts they are using for repairs probably suffer from the same problem.

    LG cannot reball using leaded solder balls (which would probably alleviate or eliminate the problem) due to environmental regulations. Reballing using leaded solder is more robust even with less attention to heating profiles (leaded solder melts all at the same temperature while lead-free solder is non-eutectic, meaning the different metals melt at different temperatures, so you have to be very careful in the heating of the board to follow a specific script) As a home user, if you want you can reball using leaded solder but it is an expensive and time consuming process.

    LG can easily reflow your board though, but IMO that just pushes the problem further down the road because it doesn't fix the core issue of weakend joints, which might be solder ball quality problem, heating profile problem, design issue with not enough heat dissipation, or board warping due to repeated heat/cool cycles. It could be any one of those problems.

    So reball using leaded solder is like using brand new more robust glue to fix the problem. Reflow is like crazy gluing the existing broken joints. I'm taking liberties in my descriptions.
    3
    I am also guessing that if you open up the unit and fashion some sort of shunt from cardboard box then use non-conductive tape to tape ontop of cpu and memory chip so that when you put the phone back together, pressure is applied to the chips, you can probably get it working for a while, at least long enough to get data off of it.

    Not a long term solution either, because the chips will probably overheat.

    So the root causes for this problem MIGHT have been any of the following:
    - the original solder balls were slightly unequal sizes making the solder connections weak for some of the connections weaker
    - the substrate/motherboard may have been slightly warped causing uneven stress in some areas
    - there may have been some impurities in the manufacturing process
    - the heat profile may have been off for the type of solder used. Unlike lead solder, lead-free solder is non eutectic, which means the different metals in the solder melt at different temperatures (leaded solder melts completely at one temperature) If you don't heat to certain levels then increase the heat to other levels and the proper schedule, you won't get strong joints
    - insufficient heat management could lead to undue stress on joints, possibly due to board slightly warping and adding stress to already weakened joints
    - there are probably other explanations people in manufacturing can tell you

    So your options to get things working are:
    1) send it in for RMA, either Google, Project Fi, or LG
    2) call your credit card and ask for warranty under their extended warranty program
    3) stick it in the freezer and hope enough moisture or contraction is present to connect the fissure/crack that formed in the solder or the board warps back to a form that releaves pressure on the connector so it can form connection again
    4) "reflow" the solder by heating up the chips using either precise temperature controlled hot air rework station or go ghetto and use something like a hair dryer or heat gun. reflow means you are trying to get the existing solder to heat up and melt to close the fissure/crack, but the underlying problem might still be there, like insufficient solder, warped board, solder impurities, poor heat management causing stress on joints, etc., so problem will probably return
    5) "reball" using leaded solder balls of high quality (uniform size). This would be much more costly but would probably permanently fix the problem
    reballing looks like this (video is for xbox360)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atSQBCpgA1E
    6) open up the unit and place some cardboard shunt to apply pressure to the CPU and eMMC chips to try and have the fissures closed when the unit is reassembled and downward pressure is applied on the chips.
    2
    Hi. I tested my 5x https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.vinagre.android.emmc_check&hl=pl. It showed that emmc is Toshiba 032G74. Test passed without problems. I haven't updated to 7 yet, because I would like to avoid eventually problem with bootloop.
    The problem that was pointed out for the LG G4 cousin of this 5x phone is not that the eMMC chip is defective, rather the solder connection to either the eMMC or the CPU is faulty, so in that case it wouldn't matter which eMMC chip you had.

    I am trying to get some discussion about what the cause of the problem is on the 5x using the G4 bootloop problem as a starting point.

    As to the eMMC info, if you want the information about your emmc you can also do

    Code:
    su
    cd /sys/bus/mmc/devices/mmc0:0001/
    cat name date fwrev hwrev manfid oemid
    
    032G74
    07/1999
    0x0
    0x0
    0x000011
    0x0100

    also you can reboot your phone and type

    Code:
    bullhead:/ $ dmesg | grep mmc0
    [    1.914434] mmc0: no vqmmc regulator found
    [    1.914459] mmc0: no vmmc regulator found
    [    1.914736] mmc0: SDHCI controller on f9824900.sdhci [f9824900.sdhci] using 32-bit ADMA
    [    2.046259] mmc0: BKOPS_EN bit = 0
    [    2.063777] mmc0: new HS400 MMC card at address 0001
    [    2.064305] mmcblk0: mmc0:0001 032G74 29.1 GiB