a thread * not* about rooting: detailed specifications, microsdhc access methodology

[cowcreekgeek]

HTC reports 32gb microSDHC 2.0 as supported, which *should* allow contiguous fat 32, but some have claimed the phone itself can only format the first (presumed) 16gb.

Further, there is *nothing* released regarding architecture (i.e. SPI and/or 4 bit modes, voltage, min/max read/write speeds, 'n such). Not even which class *may* exceed their capabilities.

Am I the only one upset over this lack of disclosure, or have we all been lulled into submission by this great new device? and, oh, yes, it is kinda great... but I digress.

I need engineering details specific to the HTC Droid Incredible, beyond the marketing strategies and press releases, if anybody's got 'em yet. Much appreciated ...

 

[tdavis42]

Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone? Are you trying to get attention? Please explain in detail what you need this info for I am really interested and if its for ANDROID then I won't ask you to move your post. But if this has nothing to do with ANDROID then please do not post in here. Read the title of the section it says Droid Incredible ANDROID development not Droid Incredible Development. Last I checked SD card readers are not specific to Android. There is a general section where this could go and live in peace.

 

[DHowett]

That was incredibly hostile.
I think that this is a perfectly valid question, even given that it's in the Development forum.
Maybe Developing a workaround is not to be considered development?
Maybe it just requires some modifications to the related kernel module? In my opinion, that has a lot to do with ANDROID the operating system that you so vehemently barked at him about.

 

[LegionTHEFecalExcretion]

Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone?

Think about what you just said, and think about where we are. There was no need for your remark.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

1. Not to be so negative or cynical but what are you going to build a phone? Are you trying to get attention?
2. Please explain in detail what you need this info for I am really interested and if its for ANDROID then I won't ask you to move your post. But if this has nothing to do with ANDROID then please do not post in here.
3. Read the title of the section it says Droid Incredible ANDROID development not Droid Incredible Development.
4. Last I checked SD card readers are not specific to Android. There is a general section where this could go and live in peace.

1. We had nine phones at my last count, two of which are Increds, of which mine is reportedly 13th sold locally, so... no, I've no desire to build a phone. And, to 'show off' via the 'net is *almost* as stupid as arguing needlessly w/in forums.
2. Uhmm...No; I'd tell you why, but then they'd kill us both.
(Just kidding) But, anybody that wishes to develop for the droid OS on this Incred I' m poking' the virtual keys on *should* have enough creative thought w/in to think of many reasons: This post is exactly where it belongs.
3. Answered above. But, further, perhaps you should consider my questions nearly so well as I review forum hierarchies prior to posting them.
4. Uhmm.. remove the cover carefully, and you should find the exact same slot w/in your Incred as I'm considering w/in mine. Now, beyond using cables, there are a number of wireless methods that make cards inserted there accessible...

But, my questions remain: What speeds are consistently available for microSDHC read and write in the HTC Android Incredible, and under which conditions were they measured? Is this device capable of SPI and/or 4 bit mode(s)? Can this device format the full 32gb internally, and is the entire volume available?

Now, if you have the answers, I'm anxiously awaiting your response. And, if you don't have the answers, remember that I don't either; just gettin' started here. Either way? Kindly quit peein' all over my post

 

[cowcreekgeek]

snipped.... I think that this is a perfectly valid question, even given that it's in the Development forum.
Maybe Developing a workaround ...snipped... just requires some modifications to the related kernel module? In my opinion, that has a lot to do with ANDROID the operating system ...snipped

I'm brand new to this current flavor of OS, beyond following along conceptually, but you're thinkin' about the relationship between devices and the OS/Apps developed to operate/run 'em in the right way ...

I usually get the cheapest tires that will serve my needs, 'cause I'm poor as the dirt I drive on, but wouldn't it be wisest to select a speed/load rating that barely exceeds the limits of the vehicle, and a size/pattern that suits the driving conditions?
Not the best analogy, but ... continuing w/ it anyhow:
If you were really hopin' to tweak performance, then you'd need all the details you could get, like suspension design and torque 'n such.

Not that I'm focused on gaining root, but I suspect the answer would be most easily discovered by those w/ the greatest understanding of exactly what the Snapdragon can do w/in the architecture of the Incred, and every possible detail about Droid 2.1 Linux kernel.

And, the answers to my questions may prove most important to them, too

 

[faria]

Think about what you just said, and think about where we are. There was no need for your remark.

Lets play nice guys

 

[cowcreekgeek]

microsd speed (htc support)

Official position is that class 2 devices are guaranteed, but that the HTC Droid Incredible may exceed class 4 ... no specific details are provided to techs beyond this statement, but response time was INCREDibly fast.

 

[krelvinaz]

But, my questions remain: What speeds are consistently available for microSDHC read and write in the HTC Android Incredible, and under which conditions were they measured? Is this device capable of SPI and/or 4 bit mode(s)? Can this device format the full 32gb internally, and is the entire volume available?

The HTC website lists the external expansion as:

Expansion Slot

microSD™ memory card (SD 2.0 compatible)
Up to 32 GB card support. No pre-installed card.

Of course, Verizon is distributing the phone with a 2gb card.

The SD 2.0 standard is listed as (Not on HTC's site):

SD 2.0 offers FAT32 formatting as well as a maximum capacity of 32GB - sizes of 4GB and above are not compatible with existing SD 1.0/1.1 standards. Any SD card that are 4GB and above in capacity will be dubbed SD High Capacity (SDHC), although the transfer rates of the new format maxes out at a paltry 6MB/s.

The classes that are available and supported are defined by the SD Association which defines them as:

Speed Class 2 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 2 mega bytes per second (MB/s)
Speed Class 4 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 4 MB/s
Speed Class 6 guarantees a minimum transfer speed of 6 MB/s.

So since HTC has stated the device supports SD 2.0, it is already saying it supports the related standards so it supports up to the defined Class 6 speeds of 6 MB/s which is defined by the standard. That is most likely the only answer you will end up with unless an independent lab does tests and releases that info. I'm sure HTC isn't going to bother defining it more than it simply being SD 2.0 compatible. Not sure I've seen any other mfg do so.

You of course end up with a can of worms with regards to the "source" of the cards you buy, whether they are in fact what they are labeled as etc... There is a lot of forged and fraudulent cards out there.

BTW, up to 32GB support does not mean the device can format that.... just that it supports it. That would be one continuous Fat32 block of space sans the amount you lose when you format any memory device. Not having had the chance to play with one, I'm not sure what that total would be, but I'm sure it is calculable.

 

[DeeBG]

Just keep in mind that Class Ratings = Write Speeds. Read Speeds varies by the SD controller card and by the phone's processor. Also I tend to stick with brands more than class ratings and SanDisk has always treated me well whether it's been MicroSDHC Cards or Duo Pro Memory Sticks. Sometimes Kingston's cards are cheaper with more or less the same results. I need to leave the house now but I will post more tonight on the subject if someone doesn't beat me to it =p.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Excellent points, and thank you for your input. Although I follow your logic, I'm not entirely certain that HTC's claim to "support" 2.0 requires they read/write @ full speed.

In regard to card org's standards? I can't afford the required fee to gain access to complete specifications (playin' by the rules can be frustrating, in that I know *exactly* where the pdf I wish most to read resides).

In regard to card quality/performance? I've bookmarked a few programmers' comments, remembering one who discovered a transcend card's failure to properly respond to SPI mode access, despite claiming full compliance.

An aging but still excellent comparison of many SD/sdhc cards w/in a specific NIKON camera is with lookin' at:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9597

I've played w/ a few benchmark tools, but have not found comfort in their findings when measuring two Increds (one w/ microSD, the other w/o) under various, but identical, scenarios. I may have to temporarily focus on building a different app, if I can' t find another way to compile the data req'd.

God knows I can't afford to buy one of each card, just to figure all this out.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Just keep in mind that Class Ratings = Write Speeds. Read Speeds varies by the SD controller card and by the phone's processor. Also I tend to stick with brands more than class ratings and SanDisk has always treated me well whether it's been MicroSDHC Cards or Duo Pro Memory Sticks. Sometimes Kingston's cards are cheaper with more or less the same results ...(snipped)

Thanks, and so very true ... I've already seen wild variances that seem to depend more upon sizes of file(s) and buffer settings than class ratings. In fact, some slower cards have seemed to outperform their betters under certain conditions, presuming benchmark results prove to be accurate.

Speaking of those memory stick pro duos? I bought all but the last one in stock from each of several local clearance stores (for literally pennies in some cases), w/ the intention of stacking under SPI mode. Still haven't gotten around to it, but our Sony's haven't req'd us to delete pictures for a very long time

 

[DeeBG]

For "bang for your buck", I would recommend this SanDisk 16GB MicroSDHC. This is probably the one I will be buying myself, so if you want to wait a week I can give you guys real Incredible performance details. However, be warned that it is a Class 2 device. It seems to have been designed with phones in mind (and specifically mentions working well on HTC devices). Saves you a few $ by not including an SD adapter or USB reader. I was impressed by the speeds noted by the user in their PC configuration, but of course I will keep an eye out for better deals and any proven information.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

In some scenarios, I've seen a class 2 sandisk perform better than a class 6 dane-elec, but I'm thinking a bit forward about all this ... lookin' to run (or, at minimum, support) app(s) from the card. And, there may be a few more tricks comin' soon.

 

[egzthunder1]

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