[APP][FIRETV][NOROOT] Launcher Manager (Change Launcher without Root)

[graffix420]

THIS is exactly what I did based on your advice back on May 23rd and right now it's past DAY 2 and so far so good on my firestick 4K!! LM 1.1.8 working like a charm with Wolf Launcher launching automatically.

In RethinkDNS + Firewall the app is actualled named "Arcus Proxy" so you just need to block both unmetered and metered traffic from accessing it. But I found you also need to make sure to use the system DNS and not Rethink's DNS or it might prevent some apps from accessing the net. Well, in my case, I also have OpenVPN setup on my router with custom DNS so that might be the thing conflicting with Rethink's DNS but you can just disable that as I did.

I'll report in a few days to see if it's still working or if I need to block other apps and/or IPs. If others can try and report it, we can figure out if this is a permanent solution! Thanks Finnzz for the suggestion!!

PS My $20 ONN TV box which I discussed previously is also working great with LM/WL for regular apps but just don't like that A12 prevents IPTV apps from allowing you a choice to select the default app for YT links which is why the older firestick is much better for now as IPTV is the most used app in my case.

I'm trying this myself now, is there any way to get rethink to launch on boot?

 

[glxnotetony]

Where in rethink do u block the app? I'm trying. Thanks

 

[glxnotetony]

Where in rethink do u block the app? I'm trying. Thanks

Disregard I got it thanks

 

[tp11075]

Disregard I got it thanks

Great, let us know if it's still working after a few days. I noticed that Amzn comes to check mine around 3-4am PST. Not sure if that's always the case with other time zones but that's when I notice the LM being deleted. Once we figure out which apps/urls/IPs are the culprits, we can maybe make this a semi-permanent solution until they change how they check for this. At least, it looks like it might be a good solution, for now.

 

[cityhunter_1919_xyz]

I'm trying this myself now, is there any way to get rethink to launch on boot?

How about using Tasker or Macrodroid?

 

[tp11075]

How about using Tasker or Macrodroid?

Actually I just restarted my firestick and Rethink is on and working automatically. As long as you click on START in the Rethink app and have in on, it remembers the last state and stays on even after restart. At least in my case, that is what I see.

 

[Finnzz]

I'm trying this myself now, is there any way to get rethink to launch on boot?

Like @tp11075 observed, RethinkDNS also automatically starts for me on boot when I have it activate.

If you want, you can also use RethinkDNS to block OTA updates (com.amazon.device.software.com). If blocking arcus proxy with root and RethinkDNS catches on, I would expect Amazon to implement a countermeasure in the future.

It appears that arcus proxy checks in with Amazon on reboot. Does LM get disabled shortly after a reboot when arcus proxy is not blocked?

 

[tp11075]

Like @tp11075 observed, RethinkDNS also automatically starts for me on boot when I have it activate.

If you want, you can also use RethinkDNS to block OTA updates (com.amazon.device.software.com). If blocking arcus proxy with root and RethinkDNS catches on, I would expect Amazon to implement a countermeasure in the future.

It appears that arcus proxy checks in with Amazon on reboot. Does LM get disabled shortly after a reboot when arcus proxy is not blocked?

So something happened on DAY 3 to delete LM but this time around 2-3pm PST. (I have 2 firestick 4k and a fire tv which I'm also testing various settings with but didn't notice the one that was running for a few days had been violated until late night) So maybe they have several methods to check with some not on a regular schedule? (BTW do not block "Arcus Android Client" as that will break some of the access to the net for some regular apps.)

I could not find "com.amazon.device.software.com" on my stick but did a search on the word "device" and found "System Updates" and "DeviceSoftwareOTA" so I just blocked those apps to see if OTA updates has anything to do with checking for LM.

I also noticed in Rethink that (arcus-uswest.amazon.com) is a URL that is being accessed at times and it was mentioned on another thread @Finnzz started along with maybe (softwareupdates.amazon.com) so I have blocked those URLs in domain rules along with "Arcus Proxy" app on my other stick to see what happens. Anything else you and or others suggest we might want to try to block?

 

[glxnotetony]

Yeah mine deleted again. Not sure what or where to check what happen but lm.is gone and rethink is running with arcus blocked.

 

[Finnzz]

So something happened on DAY 3 to delete LM but this time around 2-3pm PST. (I have 2 firestick 4k and a fire tv which I'm also testing various settings with but didn't notice the one that was running for a few days had been violated until late night) So maybe they have several methods to check with some not on a regular schedule? (BTW do not block "Arcus Android Client" as that will break some of the access to the net for some regular apps.)

That's too bad it wasn't that simple. AFTVnews suggested a few posts back that it could be dependent on the Amazon App Store (Venezia) or Nimh. Try blocking those two. He also mentioned Alexa (Vizzini) being a possibility, but I'd hold off on that for the moment. Vizzini is tied into a bunch of stuff.

Yeah DeviceSoftwareOTA = com.amazon.device.software.ota. Firewalling that was enough to block updates when I used it. The other update apps are supporting apps, that can't do much without the main one.

 

[graffix420]

That's too bad it wasn't that simple. AFTVnews suggested a few posts back that it could be dependent on the Amazon App Store (Venezia) or Nimh. Try blocking those two. He also mentioned Alexa (Vizzini) being a possibility, but I'd hold off on that for the moment. Vizzini is tied into a bunch of stuff.

Yeah DeviceSoftwareOTA = com.amazon.device.software.ota. Firewalling that was enough to block updates when I used it. The other update apps are supporting apps, that can't do much without the main one.

If I block firetvcaptiveportal and fireoscaptiveportal at the router level, I am able to stop them from deleting LM, however, the time falls out of sync after a couple days.

I noticed that when LM is deleted, there is an alert generated inside the notification area of fireos. Would it be possible to just monitor, or periodically check for this alert, via adb, then script a reinstall via adb?

I'm going to look at blocking specific ports that are being used on captiveportal, I've had just TCP/UDP blocked for a week or so now, so whatever is deleting LM is coming through on a different port.

I'm not sure why rethink won't auto-launch on reboot for me, I have the auto-start (experimental) option checked, but I always have to start it manually. Does the app need autostart permissions possibly?

 

[tp11075]

If I block firetvcaptiveportal and fireoscaptiveportal at the router level, I am able to stop them from deleting LM, however, the time falls out of sync after a couple days.

I noticed that when LM is deleted, there is an alert generated inside the notification area of fireos. Would it be possible to just monitor, or periodically check for this alert, via adb, then script a reinstall via adb?

I'm going to look at blocking specific ports that are being used on captiveportal, I've had just TCP/UDP blocked for a week or so now, so whatever is deleting LM is coming through on a different port.

I'm not sure why rethink won't auto-launch on reboot for me, I have the auto-start (experimental) option checked, but I always have to start it manually. Does the app need autostart permissions possibly?

OK thanks @Finnzz and @graffix420 on the suggestions. Here are some new things to report on my side. The 1st firestick with Arcus Proxy, System Updates and DeviceSoftwareOTA apps blocked by Rethink has failed after 33 hours. The 2nd firestick with Arcus Proxy and urls (arcus-uswest.amazon.com) and (softwareupdates.amazon.com) blocked is still working after 27 hours. However, the strange thing is the 1st firestick allowed itself to do a system update (even with those 3 apps blocked) whereas the 2nd firestick did not allow it so we'll see if LM is still active on the 2nd one after tomorrow.

Also I just followed the advice of @graffix420 and blocked firetvcaptiveportal.com and fireoscaptiveportal.com with Rethink on my 1st firestick and eliminated all other blocked apps/domains to see if this works on mine as it did his. Additionally, I installed the Smart Time Sync app and set it to sync every 1 hour over the internet on one of the pool.ntp.org servers to see if the time sync issue can be resolved that way.

Additionally there is something strange that happens if I leave the screensaver of the stick set to on, in that I need to press the Home button several times to get LM/WL to work. Whereas if it is set to Never, then I don't have this issue. Not sure if this was discussed previously.

As for Rethink not starting up for @graffix420, the settings are the same for mine with auto-start checked but I don't recall having to give it any permissions. But if you can block at the router level, maybe all you need is the Smart Time Sync or similar app to make sure the time is always correct.

 

[graffix420]

OK thanks @Finnzz and @graffix420 on the suggestions. Here are some new things to report on my side. The 1st firestick with Arcus Proxy, System Updates and DeviceSoftwareOTA apps blocked by Rethink has failed after 33 hours. The 2nd firestick with Arcus Proxy and domains (arcus-uswest.amazon.com) and (softwareupdates.amazon.com) blocked is still working after 27 hours. However, the strange thing is the 1st firestick allowed itself to do a system update (even with those 3 apps blocked) whereas the 2nd firestick did not allow it so we'll see if LM is still active on the 2nd one after tomorrow.

Also I just followed the advice of @graffix420 and blocked firetvcaptiveportal.com and fireoscaptiveportal.com with Rethink on my 1st firestick and eliminated all other blocked apps/domains to see if this works on mine as it did his. Additionally, I installed the Smart Time Sync app and set it to sync every 1 hour over the internet on one of the pool.ntp.org servers to see if the time sync issue can be resolved that way.

Additionally there is something strange that happens if I leave the screensaver of the stick set to on, in that I need to press the Home button several times to get LM/WL to work. Whereas if it is set to Never, then I don't have this issue. Not sure if this was discussed previously.

As for Rethink not starting up for @graffix420, the settings are the same for mine with auto-start checked but I don't recall having to give it any permissions. But if you can block at the router level, maybe all you need is the Smart Time Sync or similar app to make sure the time is always correct.

I neglected to mention that when you block those uri's completely, the stock launcher will also show there's no network connectivity, this isn't a problem for me, as I just wanted to use wolf, and I'm able to get to what I need to from there. Blocking just TCP/UDP at the router level (I run OPNSense locally) seems to have zero effect. Checking the logs from rethink, you can see what ports connections to captiveportal are running on, I'm going to attempt blocking those. I have two firestick 4k max's I'm using. I had one in an outbuilding, for a long time, I had no trouble with lm getting deleted. I factory reset that stick a couple days ago, to clear space for a software install, after reset lm now gets deleted nightly on this stick as well.

The only difference between the two sticks, AFAIK, is that on the stick I just factory reset, I had two copies of LM installed, but one showed "disabled" in the APP Manager section of XPlore. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how that app got a "disabled" status, and I can't produce that app status in XPlore with any other app.

 

[tp11075]

I neglected to mention that when you block those uri's completely, the stock launcher will also show there's no network connectivity, this isn't a problem for me, as I just wanted to use wolf, and I'm able to get to what I need to from there. Blocking just TCP/UDP at the router level (I run OPNSense locally) seems to have zero effect. Checking the logs from rethink, you can see what ports connections to captiveportal are running on, I'm going to attempt blocking those. I have two firestick 4k max's I'm using. I had one in an outbuilding, for a long time, I had no trouble with lm getting deleted. I factory reset that stick a couple days ago, to clear space for a software install, after reset lm now gets deleted nightly on this stick as well.

The only difference between the two sticks, AFAIK, is that on the stick I just factory reset, I had two copies of LM installed, but one showed "disabled" in the APP Manager section of XPlore. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how that app got a "disabled" status, and I can't produce that app status in XPlore with any other app.

Yes, the stock launcher shows No Internet on mine as well but all apps (including Rethink/Smart Time Sync) can be launched and looks to be working normally under Wolf Launcher. But are you saying that one of your firestick 4Ks is deleting LM even with this method after you factory reset it? What firmware versions does each show?

 

[Finnzz]

@graffix420 I haven't been updating my RethinkDNS the last few months, but I updated today and noticed that the newest version doesn't automatically start on boot. I went back to v0.5.3n which does.

@tp11075 Are you running the latest version on all the devices that you are testing? Is it auto- starting on all of them.

I will try just firewalling Arcus Proxy for a couple days rather than disabling it to see what happens.

 

[tp11075]

@graffix420 I haven't been updating my RethinkDNS the last few months, but I updated today and noticed that the newest version doesn't automatically start on boot. I went back to v0.5.3n which does.

@tp11075 Are you running the latest version on all the devices that you are testing? Is it auto- starting on all of them.

I will try just firewalling Arcus Proxy for a couple days rather than disabling it to see what happens.

@Finnzz I am running Rethink v054c on all my devices and all are restarted automatically without any issues as of now. I will be posting an update of my firestick 4Ks that I am testing on with more details on firmware and versions of software I'm running and some notes for each later today. So far, they are working without LM being deleted, therefore, keeping my fingers crossed as one has crossed the 48 hour mark already. But on my Toshiba fire tv, LM does not startup automatically like it did before after installing Rethink and won't function properly even after manually launching it (and even if I turn off Rethink) so I'm looking into that issue. Might need to factory reset, if I can't find a solution for it as I would like to test these methods on it as well.

 

[Finnzz]

Ok, I'm using a 2nd gen Cube, in case the startup issue is FireOS7 specific. I think @graffix420 is using a 4k Max (FireOS7)? Are any of your devices on FireOS7 @tp11075?

Since your Rethink is working, I don't need to test arcus proxy, and will go back to disabling it.

 

[graffix420]

Well, this is interesting, today lm is gone, and I can't reinstall it at all. I just get the message "APP not installed". Frustrating.

 

[tp11075]

I now have just 1 2 Firestick 4Ks running without any issues for multiple days. Please see the details below. I am beginning to suspect that blocking OTA update thru some URLs is important to have LM keep running. I will keep updating the days and hours they stay running without issues along with any parameter changes for new tests by editing this post occasionally.

6/21/23 Update: As all 3 methods continue to work, I will leave this post 'as is' for now and unless issues arise, it can be assumed that LM is working without it being deleted.

Firestick 4K #1 (Officially on DAY 14 without LM delete)

Launcher Manager 1.1.8 Running: 13 Days and 8 hours (as of 6/21/23 19:00 PDT)
Wolf Launcher starts as default launcher + launches with home button : yes

Software Version: Fire OS 6.2.9.7 (NS6297/4655)
Checks for Updates working: No (Update error message therefore OTA being blocked)

Rethink DNS + Firewall v054c: restarts automatically on reboot = yes
DNS Setting: System DNS
Apps Blocked: Arcus Proxy (both metered and unmetered settings)
URLs Blocked: arcus-uswest.amazon.com, softwareupdates.amazon.com

PS I got the hint of why these 2 URLs might work from @RiCkLaR in @Finnzz's other thread PSA FireTV OTA update URL has changed

Notes: ADB/Scrcpy access via a local remote computer fixed with a reboot of the Firestick on 6/14, the 7th day without LM being deleted. Rethink DNS auto started in its last state after reboot as well. All systems normal and working including Wolf Launcher as default launcher through LM.

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Firestick 4K #2 (Officially on DAY 11 without LM delete)

Launcher Manager 1.1.8 Running: 10 Days and 16 hours (as of 6/21/23 19:00 PDT)
Wolf Launcher 0.1.9 starts as default launcher + launches with home button : yes but beware that the stock launcher will be somewhat disabled showing no network connection, even though it is connected and FireOS settings is accessible.

Software Version: Fire OS 6.2.9.7 (NS6297/4655)
Checks for Updates working: Probably not (Network Connection Lost message pops up so can't see any update confirmations)

Rethink DNS + Firewall v054c: restarts automatically on reboot = yes
DNS Setting: System DNS
Apps Blocked: None
URLs Blocked: firetvcaptiveportal.com, fireoscaptiveportal.com, arcus-uswest.amazon.com, softwareupdates.amazon.com

Smart Time Sync 1.72 - synced hourly with one of the pool.ntp.org servers to prevent out of sync clock

Notes: Since just the 2 captiveportal urls deleted LM within 24 hours, I added the 2 additional urls above to see if it will keep LM from deleting. Will keep updating the running days and hours as long as LM stays in place.

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FireTV 4K (Toshiba) #3

Launcher Manager 1.1.8 Running: 7 Days and 7 Hours (as of 6/21/23 19:00 PDT)
Software Version: Fire OS 6.2.9.6 (NS6296/4555)
Same exact settings as #1 above except software version is older.

Note: After several different settings were tested, this device seems to do the same thing every day or so. That is, although LM is not deleted, it stops working and when the LM app is opened manually, it shows a blank screen. Rebooting the FireTV returns LM back to normal and functioning so a slight inconvenience but manageable. Might be that a power save mode of the TV that does not exist on the Firesticks is conflicting with LM at times.

PS @Finnzz mine are all running on FireOS6 as I recently decided to go with ONN TV boxes for the flexibility it has for using custom launchers, etc. but then found that A12 will not allow you to select the default app for YT links in IPTV apps so I now have returned to the Firestick 4Ks which work great, if LM will stay put. Can you and others try the settings of the top one in this post for FireOS7 along with Rethink 053n to see it LM does not get deleted for 48 hours+ like mine?

 

[Skel40]

I now have just 1 Firestick 4K running without any issues. Please see the details below. I am beginning to suspect that blocking OTA update plus some URLs is important to have LM keep running. I will keep updating the hours it stays running without issues by editing this post occasionally.

Firestick 4K #2

Launcher Manager 1.1.8 Running: 55 hours (as of 6/10/23 18:00 PDT)
Wolf Launcher starts as default launcher + launches with home button : yes

Software Version: Fire OS 6.2.9.6 (NS6296/4555)
Checks for Updates working: No (Update error message therefore OTA being blocked)

Rethink v054c: restarts automatically on reboot = yes
Apps Blocked: Arcus Proxy
URLs Blocked: arcus-uswest.amazon.com, softwareupdates.amazon.com
DNS Setting: System DNS

Notes: Everything works fine except I cannot get ADB/Scrcpy access via a local remote computer like I can with the other firestick and fire tv. Not a big issue as I only use this function so I don't have to walk from room to room in my place to go check the status. In a previous setting test, I did notice in the logs that the DeviceSoftwareOTA and some other apps were accessing (arcus-uswest.amazon.com) so I assume this is one of the important ones to block.

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Firestick 4K #1

Launcher Manager 1.1.8 Running: Deleted at 23.5 hour mark (as of 6/10/23 14:00 PDT)
Wolf Launcher 0.1.9 starts as default launcher + launches with home button : yes before LM delete

Software Version: Fire OS 6.2.9.7 (NS6297/4655)
Checks for Updates working: Maybe (Network Connection Lost message but Network shows connected on the menu item above CfU)

Rethink v054c: restarts automatically on reboot = yes
Apps Blocked: None
URLs Blocked: firetvcaptiveportal.com, fireoscaptiveportal.com
DNS Setting: System DNS

Smart Time Sync 1.72 - synced hourly with one of the pool.ntp.org servers to prevent out of sync clock

Notes: This one just deleted the LM and I see that @graffix420 also ran into the same result so I will setup this one with some other settings to test another way, maybe add the Arcus Proxy and/or the same URL blocks of #2 firestick to see how that responds.

PS @Finnzz mine are all running on FireOS6 as I recently decided to go with ONN TV boxes for the flexibility it has for using custom launchers, etc. but then found that A12 will not allow you to select the default app for YT links in IPTV apps so I now have returned to the Firestick 4Ks which work great, if LM will stay put. Can you and others try the settings of the top one in this post for FireOS7 along with Rethink 053n to see it LM does not get deleted for 48 hours+ like mine?

Very important. Thanks for the heads-up. I got my two Fire TV Stick Lite's (sheldon) on me unlocked with Fire OS 7 and currently running 7.6.4.6