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BillTheCat

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2008
1,851
670
Milford, PA
We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.

For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.

Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
 

ragingredbull

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2011
203
26
London
Good question, I too would be very interested in hearing from some of the posters that are knowledgeable in this area.

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
 

Vincent Law

Senior Member
Jun 7, 2010
349
173
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:

Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles

Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.

1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
 
Last edited:

Kinobe

Member
Apr 5, 2011
26
2
You have no idea how many people need this post (on some points, myself included). Thanks.
 

jasahu

Member
Dec 31, 2009
37
4
Budapest
But is it practical to charge it at 50% every time?

What is a practical approach for me now, after reading this all, is to charge it every night.
This way
- I have better chances for not running out of battery during the day
- either it was at 75% (3rd row) or 50% (2nd row) I still have better longevity than charging from 0% most of the time.
 
Apr 22, 2013
15
3
Cavite
Battery life will not degrade as long as you donot empty its charge for long time and donot use it while on charge... over heat on battery aged the battery...

Sent from my GT-I9082 using xda premium
 

mang0

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2012
569
194
San Diego
OnePlus 6T
Google Pixel 6
Just wanted to add: li-ion and li-po batteries now-a-days have protection circuitry to prevent overcharge and over-discharge. Overcharge protection based on what is stated above, known as trickle charge. Over-discharge protection means that your phone will shut off when your battery is around 3v per cell, whereas you should refrain from force starting the phone. The only benefit you get from fully charging/discharging is battery calibration for cell mismatches. It is also good to know that partial charges are better than full charges when it comes to lithium ion (and lithium polymer) batteries.
 

Terminator19

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2011
508
242
The HTC one uses li-poly, not li-ion

Can read all about the advantages and disadvantages of each other here:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery

li-poly

Advantages

Very low profile - batteries resembling the profile of a credit card are feasible.
Flexible form factor - manufacturers are not bound by standard cell formats. With high volume, any reasonable size can be produced economically.
Lightweight - gelled electrolytes enable simplified packaging by eliminating the metal shell.
Improved safety - more resistant to overcharge; less chance for electrolyte leakage.

Limitations

Lower energy density and decreased cycle count compared to lithium-ion.
Expensive to manufacture.
No standard sizes. Most cells are produced for high volume consumer markets.
Higher cost-to-energy ratio than lithium-ion

As far as I am concerned, li-poly is overall better for phones where you can't change the battery.

by the looks of that article it was done quite a while ago (for the tech. world) so the disadvantages might not be as much of a problem these days.....
 

Vincent Law

Senior Member
Jun 7, 2010
349
173
It does not seem to be that uniform, according to this:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

From what I understood from the link above in Table 2, you can get the best longevity by charging from 50% (2nd row).

I was using a simplification. It would be better not to let it go to 0, but most charge cycles are rated on this. I do mention the impact of letting the battery go to 0%.

Doesn't the one infact have a Li-Po battery ? Would these points still apply ?

A flub on my part, you are correct. There are minor differences (the only one that matters to us is slightly shorter lifetime capacity) but otherwise it works the same.
 

Bartcore3

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2012
103
40
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.
 

hegartyp

Senior Member
Apr 5, 2013
80
6
Dublin
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.

I think that was only for the old Ni-MH batteries as they had to be bedded in as such. The newer ones dont need this
 

ragingredbull

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2011
203
26
London
This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:

1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).

Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium
 

stevedebi

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2005
3,381
238
Los Angeles
Thanks Vincent. Great post will certainly bear it all in mind when charging my phone.

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda premium

I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.
 

Vincent Law

Senior Member
Jun 7, 2010
349
173
Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.

As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).

Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy :p

---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.

You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
 
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stevedebi

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2005
3,381
238
Los Angeles
...
You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.

Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.

I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...
 

Vincent Law

Senior Member
Jun 7, 2010
349
173
Most of the modern laptops allow you to turn on or off the battery saving feature. For those who use the laptop while plugged in most of the time, it will stop charging at 80%. For those who will be using it off the plug, the option is there to get it to 100%.

I often see posts from people (in various forums) asking why their laptop will only charge to 80%...

I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).

Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.

The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.
 
Last edited:

stevedebi

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2005
3,381
238
Los Angeles
I've never heard of this, and I don't recall seeing it on any Windows or Mac laptop I've used recently. Sounds like some proprietary crap one of the manufacturers came up with. Stopping the charge at 80% doesn't make much sense, since you'll still have the issue of constantly recharging the battery (as soon as it drops below 80%).

Edit: I will say that it is marginally better than keeping it at 100%, but that said, there's steps you can take on your own that are much better.

The ideal way to use a laptop that will be plugged in for most of its lifetime is to discharge it to about 45%, and then remove the battery entirely. At that point, the battery can maintain its capacity for months without major issue. Just make sure to recharge it once every 3 months or so, as the battery will discharge (slowly) even while unplugged, but at a far slower rate than it would be inside the laptop.

The latest research from the Auto manufacturers is that Li-Ion technology works longest if the battery level is between 50 and 80%.

My Toshiba U925 ultra portable uses the optional 80% max. If you use the laptop almost exclusively while plugged in, it will help provide battery longevity, or so I understand.

Many laptops won't work unless the battery is in place. It depends on how they built the power circuits.
 

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  • 83
    This is pretty well established knowledge right now. I'll list everything pertinent about lithium ion batteries and charging smartphones:

    Edit: Note that I mention Lithium Ion in this post, but the HTC One uses Lithium Polymer. They are for all intents and purposes equal in terms of their usability, except for slightly less charge cycles

    Edit 2: Hello Reddit! No idea this would have taken off. I'm "coolmatty" on reddit. This is an overall generalization, and there are plenty of resources that go into more detail. Places like Battery University are great sites to start.

    1. Charging is what reduces the life of a lithium ion battery. Batteries are usually rated between 700-1000 charge cycles while keeping 90% of their capacity.
    2. Charging 0-100% counts as one cycle. Charging 80-100% 5 times counts as one cycle.
    3. Leaving your phone on the charger after it is charged has the potential to reduce battery life, although this is less of a problem with newer devices as they often disconnect the charging circuit until the battery drops below ~95%. Generally only an issue if you leave it on the charger for 24+ hours.
    4. Lithium ion batteries do not require any conditioning.
    5. Most lithium ion devices arrive with ~40-50% battery life remaining, because this is the optimal charge level to store a lithium battery for long periods (such as sitting on a store shelf for months).
    6. Slower charging maintains the battery's overall lifetime capacity better than fast charging. This is likely why the HTC One does not have Qualcomm's Quick Charge enabled. It's debateable whether you'd notice the effects over the typical lifetime of a smartphone, however (2 years).
    7. Not exactly related to lithium but just in general: smartphones (and tablets, etc) have charging circuits that only draw a certain amount of amps regardless of the number of amps the charger provides. Using a 3.1 amp (tablet-level) charger is not going to significantly increase the speed at which your phone charges. Most phones only use between 0.8 - 1.2 amps. Anything over that is overkill.
    8. Storing a lithium ion battery at 0% is really bad for its lifetime capacity. Running it to 0% generally isn't recommended all the time, but a few instances won't hurt it.
    9. Recharging from 0-100 doesn't make your battery run longer. It can, however, reset Android's battery level stats so that it can more accurately state the battery level.
    10. Charging from ~95% to 100% takes a long time because it must do a trickle charge. Maxing out the battery like this can reduce overall lifetime capacity, but generally not enough to matter. You'll see this impact more often in larger applications of lithium batteries (like cars).
    3
    We all know that the One (and many other modern cellphones) have a Lithium Ion battery. While these batteries have no traditional 'memory effect' the way NiMH did, it seems that different chemistries for the electrolyte would suggest different strategies for recharging.

    For example, after looking at the Wikipedia entry for Lithium batteries, it would seem that we should be mindful about 'topping off' the battery, because charging deteriorates the lifespan, implying that running down the battery might be a more advisable practice than plugging in to fully charge every night.

    Wondering if any of you experts out there can comment and discuss, given that we One users no longer have replacable cells.
    1
    Now that i see a battery 'expert', a quick question.
    Back in the dack, if you bought anything with batteries, you would have to charge them for 24h, no matter how much charged they were. But if i were to buy a phone today (Lith-Ion), Do i still have to do that?
    I think not, but i'm not quite sure. Lots of people (even smartphone sellers) still recommend charging it 24h, wich i think is bull.

    As I mentioned in my first post, Lithium batteries do not require conditioning. The purpose for this on old Ni-Cad batteries was to avoid the memory effect, which could result in a battery appearing to be dead long before it actually was. For instance, if you always charged it from 60%, after many instances of this, the Ni-Cad battery would suffer a voltage drop at that point, which most electronics can't handle (some can, however, and once past the short period of low voltage, they will recover and continue normally).

    Charging for 24 hours is most certainly not relevant, as once the battery reaches 100%, charging has ceased anyway. There's no need to charge it to 100% anyway, other than to give you more time to play with your new toy :p

    ---------- Post added at 01:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

    I'm not sure everyone noticed one of the things he said. I know from my HD2 and Ruby that HTC phones will not continue charging after hitting 100%. The phone will indicate %100, but shortly after you disconnect the charger and start using the phone the indicated power level will drop to what it actually is - and it will be lower depending upon how long it has been sitting at "100%". Their phones have a protection circuit that kicks in. So if you really want 100% in the morning, power the phone down to charge it.

    You'll see this in most devices nowadays. It's especially noticeable on laptops, which typically won't lie to you about the charge. It depends on the models, but I know Macbooks for instance will happily sit at 95% charge as "fully charged". This is by design and other than turning off the device, you shouldn't try to "top it off". Any other method (such as unplugging and plugging it back in) hurts the overall lifetime of the battery.
    1
    I spoke with HTC yesterday, this is what they said regarding battery life expectancy.

    Thanks for contacting HTC Technical Support Center in regards to the cycles of the battery.

    sluflyer06; this battery should withstand between 500 to 700 charging cycles for reaching the 80%. Since we do not have access yet to the final results of the benchmarks for the HTC ONE, this information is not final. Please get back to us in a couple of weeks so we may check for the final results.