Battery Drain
- Thread starter ROMSG
- Start date
Hello ROMSG,
Can you confirm the battery is drained vs being read as drained? You could try measuring the voltage on battery contacts before and after to confirm.
Or, since this would not hurt, without even confirming, for fun, try and clean out your USB port and the C end of the USB cable with strong alcohol, and then compressed air. Dry for sure - leave it in the sun for a while laying on or right next to some table salt.
Why:
I just finished analyzing a thread with unrelated issue, but there, it seems to me that bad USB port was causing get this: low reading from otherwise good battery (or actually create a drain - dark current on the USB connector itself). No idea why, but must be connected somehow.
I had re-soldered USB port twice in the past and once the power switch on my own devices, so it would not surprise me at all that those internal components would fail. And I am kind of super precise in how insert the cable, just time, I guess.
Can you confirm the battery is drained vs being read as drained? You could try measuring the voltage on battery contacts before and after to confirm.
Or, since this would not hurt, without even confirming, for fun, try and clean out your USB port and the C end of the USB cable with strong alcohol, and then compressed air. Dry for sure - leave it in the sun for a while laying on or right next to some table salt.
Why:
I just finished analyzing a thread with unrelated issue, but there, it seems to me that bad USB port was causing get this: low reading from otherwise good battery (or actually create a drain - dark current on the USB connector itself). No idea why, but must be connected somehow.
I had re-soldered USB port twice in the past and once the power switch on my own devices, so it would not surprise me at all that those internal components would fail. And I am kind of super precise in how insert the cable, just time, I guess.
Funny how things work. Today I received a phone I bought from eBay for $50, because it was "Google FRP Locked". Mint black H918, no water damage. I thought I'd use the LGUP to re-load the software and may-be make it work, or something, you know, for practice learning about this stuff.
Well, it would not boot past the T-Mobile screen. Finally I made it boot to Factory Reset screen, pressed YES and it went black. No more boot, as it reported the battery (which was about 70% full before this) is now at 0%.
From 70% to 0% in a few unsuccessful boot attempts? Wow, that's really something. It did not get hot.. So, where all that energy went? I mean how did it dissipate 11.9 x 0.7 = 8.33 Wh ? It took about 15 minutes if that, so it was dissipating at 4 x 8.33 = 33.32 Wh speed without even getting hot? That's insane.
Anyway, the USB connector looks horrid, and the charge percentage is going ON and OFF when in the USB cable is in it. The USB cable feels loose in the port.
I tried cleaning but it is too far gone. I am going to replace the USB connector with a new one.
But do you see, again, the same link between discharging the battery / bad USB port and boot-loops? If true, this means that there might be a sea of perfectly good phones on eBay, just with bad USB connectors, boot-looping and eating batteries. Re-solder the USB port and you're good to go!
I would be excited to find out what was your result.
Well, it would not boot past the T-Mobile screen. Finally I made it boot to Factory Reset screen, pressed YES and it went black. No more boot, as it reported the battery (which was about 70% full before this) is now at 0%.
From 70% to 0% in a few unsuccessful boot attempts? Wow, that's really something. It did not get hot.. So, where all that energy went? I mean how did it dissipate 11.9 x 0.7 = 8.33 Wh ? It took about 15 minutes if that, so it was dissipating at 4 x 8.33 = 33.32 Wh speed without even getting hot? That's insane.
Anyway, the USB connector looks horrid, and the charge percentage is going ON and OFF when in the USB cable is in it. The USB cable feels loose in the port.
I tried cleaning but it is too far gone. I am going to replace the USB connector with a new one.
But do you see, again, the same link between discharging the battery / bad USB port and boot-loops? If true, this means that there might be a sea of perfectly good phones on eBay, just with bad USB connectors, boot-looping and eating batteries. Re-solder the USB port and you're good to go!
I would be excited to find out what was your result.
Lg up typically causes battery drain but not like what you described. Also reflashing wont fix frp in all cases, since the versions of android on these devices is so old frp bypasses are typically a better route. I know from expierence.
LGUP does that? How weird, why? This one is also a bug, most likely.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea. I just wanted to try different things and see what works. Typically, I'd drop my phone like in a carwash and crack the screen. So, now that I am a little smarter, I try to buy many hardware backup pieces before I need them. So this is essentially an extra screen. But since it works, why not brick it, right? Learn something along the way.
Nevertheless, I need all the hints I can get. Not a pro here by any means. Do you know of any FRP bypass method you thin works good on H918?
Since you're not new to this, would you mind if I start a conversation with you? I need answers to a couple of questions that seem to be omitted everywhere or I can't find where they are discussed.
Also can't wait to find out if you have found the USB port to be the cause of your power drain or if you found it not to be related.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea. I just wanted to try different things and see what works. Typically, I'd drop my phone like in a carwash and crack the screen. So, now that I am a little smarter, I try to buy many hardware backup pieces before I need them. So this is essentially an extra screen. But since it works, why not brick it, right? Learn something along the way.
Nevertheless, I need all the hints I can get. Not a pro here by any means. Do you know of any FRP bypass method you thin works good on H918?
Since you're not new to this, would you mind if I start a conversation with you? I need answers to a couple of questions that seem to be omitted everywhere or I can't find where they are discussed.
Also can't wait to find out if you have found the USB port to be the cause of your power drain or if you found it not to be related.
What version of android is your h918 on? I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
Hi Guys,
Mine was F800L, and it seems like it have the same problem, bad connector. Even though I unplug the battery, when I plug the charger, it's drain 0.3-0.7 Amps, and it's get hot without turning on.
I am a little scary to desolder the usb port.
Mine was F800L, and it seems like it have the same problem, bad connector. Even though I unplug the battery, when I plug the charger, it's drain 0.3-0.7 Amps, and it's get hot without turning on.
I am a little scary to desolder the usb port.
Yes xdanubi, replacing the USB port is a tricky deal. I have replaced few USB ports before, and this time I had only two jobs: replace a power switch on one phone and the USB port on H918. I did the power switch soldering job without issues, and I ruined the H918 in my attempt to replace the USB port.
What went wrong:
-My work setup was too low magnification for the H918 job. I should have upgraded to a higher magnification first, but instead I pushed ahead hoping that my sharp eyesight will haul me out as usual.
-I used ChipQuick Low Melt solder paste to mix in with the original solder in order to drop the temperature when removing the port. This was a mistake. The paste produced several independently moving micro solder balls and they run around uninhibited and I did not notice that until too late when I was examining the empty board using high magnification hand held loupe after removing the port. I should have used a Low Temp solder in a metallic form at this stage. That would not create the solder balls. Why didn't I use the metallic low temp solder? I had it at hand! Because the magnification was too low for this job and I did not feel comfortable enough to precisely apply the metallic form. Applying the paste from a syringe is easier when the work area observation is limited.
-I have not washed the board in alcohol prior to starting the job. What this did is even though I have applied the MG Pink Peelable Solder Mask jelly to the area next to repair zone to seal and protect all of the surrounding components, the flux from the solder paste still lifted the peelable mask and allowed the metal balls to run under it to get stuck to some of the smallest components. I should have thoroughly wash/brush the repair area with 97% alcohol and dry before applying the Peelable Solder Mask to have it adhere better.
All in all, I was too confident I can do it because I have done that several times in the past. Things got a lot smaller since then. This USB port on V20 is surrounded by a number of smallest components I have ever seen in SMD, and one needs to have his tools and procedures just right to get thru this. My second H918 is now what i purchased it for - just a bunch of parts.
This doesn't mean you should not try to get it done. Just be aware of particular difficulties, and get your tools, and understand every step of your procedure as you design it and know exactly why you are taking it. Also, some people always seem to get it done just on pure luck, you may just be one of them. I think if you heed my warnings and account for what I did wrong, watch few good videos and practice a little on some dead boards, you'll be all right.
What went wrong:
-My work setup was too low magnification for the H918 job. I should have upgraded to a higher magnification first, but instead I pushed ahead hoping that my sharp eyesight will haul me out as usual.
-I used ChipQuick Low Melt solder paste to mix in with the original solder in order to drop the temperature when removing the port. This was a mistake. The paste produced several independently moving micro solder balls and they run around uninhibited and I did not notice that until too late when I was examining the empty board using high magnification hand held loupe after removing the port. I should have used a Low Temp solder in a metallic form at this stage. That would not create the solder balls. Why didn't I use the metallic low temp solder? I had it at hand! Because the magnification was too low for this job and I did not feel comfortable enough to precisely apply the metallic form. Applying the paste from a syringe is easier when the work area observation is limited.
-I have not washed the board in alcohol prior to starting the job. What this did is even though I have applied the MG Pink Peelable Solder Mask jelly to the area next to repair zone to seal and protect all of the surrounding components, the flux from the solder paste still lifted the peelable mask and allowed the metal balls to run under it to get stuck to some of the smallest components. I should have thoroughly wash/brush the repair area with 97% alcohol and dry before applying the Peelable Solder Mask to have it adhere better.
All in all, I was too confident I can do it because I have done that several times in the past. Things got a lot smaller since then. This USB port on V20 is surrounded by a number of smallest components I have ever seen in SMD, and one needs to have his tools and procedures just right to get thru this. My second H918 is now what i purchased it for - just a bunch of parts.
This doesn't mean you should not try to get it done. Just be aware of particular difficulties, and get your tools, and understand every step of your procedure as you design it and know exactly why you are taking it. Also, some people always seem to get it done just on pure luck, you may just be one of them. I think if you heed my warnings and account for what I did wrong, watch few good videos and practice a little on some dead boards, you'll be all right.
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Here are my measurements of power consumption from a working H918 for a comparison:
Battery removed.
Phone is connected to USB charger
Mini screen has a light gray backlight and is clearly separate from the main screen which remains black.
A battery symbol with flashing red question mark is displayed on the main screen
Phone OFF and does not start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.25 - 0.27 A
79% Battery is installed and charged to 85%
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black.
A battery symbol is displayed on main screen with percentage of charge and green fill.
Phone OFF but will start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.48 -> -> 0.37 A
85% Battery is installed and continuously charged
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black (power button press is needed to display battery charging percentage)
Phone is OFF
Temperature on power button is 30 C
Phone was OFF but is now started using the power button. Booting.
Both screens are ON
Temperature on power button is 32 C
Current: 0.60 A
Phone is ON and is in Airplane mode.
Both screen are ON
Temperature on power button is 31 C
Current: 0.47 A (Battery is now at 89%)
Hope this helps
Battery removed.
Phone is connected to USB charger
Mini screen has a light gray backlight and is clearly separate from the main screen which remains black.
A battery symbol with flashing red question mark is displayed on the main screen
Phone OFF and does not start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.25 - 0.27 A
79% Battery is installed and charged to 85%
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black.
A battery symbol is displayed on main screen with percentage of charge and green fill.
Phone OFF but will start when I use the power button.
Temperature does nor rise, phone stays cold.
Current: 0.48 -> -> 0.37 A
85% Battery is installed and continuously charged
Phone is connected to USB charger
Both screens are black (power button press is needed to display battery charging percentage)
Phone is OFF
Temperature on power button is 30 C
Phone was OFF but is now started using the power button. Booting.
Both screens are ON
Temperature on power button is 32 C
Current: 0.60 A
Phone is ON and is in Airplane mode.
Both screen are ON
Temperature on power button is 31 C
Current: 0.47 A (Battery is now at 89%)
Hope this helps
I think your current measurements are OK. But your temperature is not OK. Try to see where the heat is coming from? IS it coming from, the CPU (felt on power button) or the USB port? In your case it would not be the battery since it is removed. It should not be the CPU either since the phone hasn't been started. I am not all that clear still on what exactly in the USB area creates the heat. It would be awesome if you could produce an InfraRed picture of the phone with the back cover off while being hot while still OFF without battery and on charger. If you have an access to the IR camera like FLIR. It may not necessarily be the port itself or it's connections. It could be one of those small SMD components next to the port that gone bad, and if that is true, replacing only the port won't help.
Thanks for the reference. Clearly, mine has hardware problems, because even after doing factory reset, the problems persist. Tried to flash the stock pie kdz, still the same result. Without battery, the current drraw arround 0.6A, with battery plugged the phone off around 1.3A, and with phone on can be as high as 1,9A.
One thing that I am still doubt about the problem though, that the usb port still functioning, both for charging and data transfer. But the strange part, when the phone is off, whenever I plugged the usb, the phone boot up, both on PC usb or charger only.
The other strange part was that when the phone got realy hot (I measure 54 with IR gun, and around 60 reading the /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zonexx/temp file, the lower part around usb port keep cool, it is the upper part that get hot.
I have a bad eyesight and only have a cheap magnifying glass, so maybe not now. Might as well buy another v20, because the cheapest trinocular still more expensive than that phone.
Sadly though, I don't have access to any IR cam. I do indeed try cheaper method "ouweee" test like Rossmann did, first using bare finger, then using a some drop of IPA and see where the particular component that dried up first.
As far as I can tell, the below area near charging port were fine. nothing dried up fast in the small component area near simcard, and the small component area under the fingerprint sensor. The one that heated up fast was the most left area covered with shield.
So I don't know weather it's still usb port problems or other hardware problem.
On V20, the CPU is just like on PC, is attached to the board, but touching a metal heatsink (which is the internal frame) with a healp from some pink glob of crappy looking thermo paste. Actually, the CPU itself is covered tightly with a memory chip soldered right on top of the CPU, and the roof of that is sticky-glued to a copper foil, and then that copper foil is covered with the paste glob and that is stuck to the frame.
Few points to note right here:
- the reason that V20 has thermal issues, I think, is due to poor thermal design: three interfaces (CPU --> memory chip --> copper foil --> metal frame heatsink), and each has some less than 100% efficiency in thermal energy conductivity. There might even be a fourth interface if the CPU has a lid, like that on PC, but unlikely so, most probably it's an exposed one like on the graphics cards.
- each of these thermal interfaces has it's own expiration date. At this point in time, you don't know how many of them are expired.
- hardware guys already are doubtful about the goofy looking "thermal solution" paste that is applied between copper film and the frame. How efficient was it to begin with?
- if you had removed the board before, or if you had dropped the phone when this paste was already dried up, it is very likely that it has de-touched from the frame and there is an air gap. Typically this is not how a phone is designed and this is a surprise to some folks.
What ideally needs to be done is the memory chip needs to be removed, the interface conduction layer renewed, and chip needs to be soldered back. Then the renewal needs to be carried out with respect to the second and third interface as well.
Without having to solder anything, you can relatively easily replace / thinker with the second and especially the third interface. The second will require the copper foil to be peeled off. On the phone I ruined, I threw that foil away, intending to go directly from memory chip roof to the frame, but alas, I didn't get to try that. I think that the high efficiency thermal conductive solutions such as liquid metal or diamond pastes are not good here, because there is the reason the LG used the glob of chewing gum it seems - because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the frame lacks the close tolerance required for a high efficiency conduit to work. Plus the phone has some flex to it, so even if yours happen to be aligned extremely tightly, this would keep changing. For this reason, I think the thermal conduit needs to be a high volume / flexible one, like that again, on the graphics cards. This could be a thick paste or a sticky pad.
The reason they used the copper foil and not a direct connection between the chip and the frame, I think was because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the copper foil is more precise and is much more flex stable, so, by using a higher efficiency / thinner conduit there they were aiming to help the total efficiency at least a little bit.
I wanted to clean the roof of the memory chip and use some good video card thermal paste / goo / glue / pad directly connecting it to the frame during re-assembly.
I think this is what you can try to do as well. You can leave the copper foil there for now, and try just the third interface. If your results are not significant, then try and remove the foil as well. None of this will require soldering or a high magnification equipment. Just some patience, alcohol, a steady hand and at least a PC experience with the same.
Be careful with the screws. The screws are all different length, and when I opened mine I was following a guidance that there are two groups, but found it to be wrong as my phone seemed to have at least four groups of different screws. It was too late, however, because mine were already mixed within two groups I created. So, I would advise to create a diagram of screw location and keeping track of which screw goes where. I think that many times this phone is taken apart and put together, without this tracking, some screws end up too long for where they were placed and holding parts loosely, thus adding to the flex that might be cracking the older brittle thermal interface.
Few points to note right here:
- the reason that V20 has thermal issues, I think, is due to poor thermal design: three interfaces (CPU --> memory chip --> copper foil --> metal frame heatsink), and each has some less than 100% efficiency in thermal energy conductivity. There might even be a fourth interface if the CPU has a lid, like that on PC, but unlikely so, most probably it's an exposed one like on the graphics cards.
- each of these thermal interfaces has it's own expiration date. At this point in time, you don't know how many of them are expired.
- hardware guys already are doubtful about the goofy looking "thermal solution" paste that is applied between copper film and the frame. How efficient was it to begin with?
- if you had removed the board before, or if you had dropped the phone when this paste was already dried up, it is very likely that it has de-touched from the frame and there is an air gap. Typically this is not how a phone is designed and this is a surprise to some folks.
What ideally needs to be done is the memory chip needs to be removed, the interface conduction layer renewed, and chip needs to be soldered back. Then the renewal needs to be carried out with respect to the second and third interface as well.
Without having to solder anything, you can relatively easily replace / thinker with the second and especially the third interface. The second will require the copper foil to be peeled off. On the phone I ruined, I threw that foil away, intending to go directly from memory chip roof to the frame, but alas, I didn't get to try that. I think that the high efficiency thermal conductive solutions such as liquid metal or diamond pastes are not good here, because there is the reason the LG used the glob of chewing gum it seems - because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the frame lacks the close tolerance required for a high efficiency conduit to work. Plus the phone has some flex to it, so even if yours happen to be aligned extremely tightly, this would keep changing. For this reason, I think the thermal conduit needs to be a high volume / flexible one, like that again, on the graphics cards. This could be a thick paste or a sticky pad.
The reason they used the copper foil and not a direct connection between the chip and the frame, I think was because the interface between the roof of the memory chip and the copper foil is more precise and is much more flex stable, so, by using a higher efficiency / thinner conduit there they were aiming to help the total efficiency at least a little bit.
I wanted to clean the roof of the memory chip and use some good video card thermal paste / goo / glue / pad directly connecting it to the frame during re-assembly.
I think this is what you can try to do as well. You can leave the copper foil there for now, and try just the third interface. If your results are not significant, then try and remove the foil as well. None of this will require soldering or a high magnification equipment. Just some patience, alcohol, a steady hand and at least a PC experience with the same.
Be careful with the screws. The screws are all different length, and when I opened mine I was following a guidance that there are two groups, but found it to be wrong as my phone seemed to have at least four groups of different screws. It was too late, however, because mine were already mixed within two groups I created. So, I would advise to create a diagram of screw location and keeping track of which screw goes where. I think that many times this phone is taken apart and put together, without this tracking, some screws end up too long for where they were placed and holding parts loosely, thus adding to the flex that might be cracking the older brittle thermal interface.
Frame Thermal Interface Touch Point:
Peeling Off the Copper Foil:
Copper Foil is Removed - Roof of the Memory Exposed :
Peeling Off the Copper Foil:
Copper Foil is Removed - Roof of the Memory Exposed :
Absolutely. The 20x binocular from AmScope on ebay is around $190. Since Iam only an amateur, I am considering building a DIY usb webcam based microscope like the one EEV blog had reviewed or better. Reading about optics now, - I am an absolute newbie to optics design.
Amazon has this phone "new" for $70 with varying reviews. Might just try that, since on e-bay or Swappa you'd likely get a phone someone from XDA already "worked with" for a while.
I too am baffled with why some phones do turn on spontaneously when charger is connected. From my experience with PCs, this usually indicates:
-- bad BIOS battery
(is there a BIOS battery cell on a phone? Yes, I know there was one on Galaxy, maybe there is one on V20 as well?) This would not generate any heat though.
-- bad corrupted BIOS
(we are on XDA, lol. Should we really try throwing this stone?) But really, maybe a full reflashing should help? I mean a complete, like a full KDZ, not just wiping of data partition which is what a factory reset really is. BUT YOU ALREADY TRIED THIS
-- some dried out capacitors around power on circuits (this one can create heat)
Again, FLIR is needed for this. Or careful thermal probing of SMD components with board being fully connected while outside of the case and plastic housing. Once a hot one is found this could be examined further.
Some research directions here...
-- bad BIOS battery
(is there a BIOS battery cell on a phone? Yes, I know there was one on Galaxy, maybe there is one on V20 as well?) This would not generate any heat though.
-- bad corrupted BIOS
(we are on XDA, lol. Should we really try throwing this stone?) But really, maybe a full reflashing should help? I mean a complete, like a full KDZ, not just wiping of data partition which is what a factory reset really is. BUT YOU ALREADY TRIED THIS
-- some dried out capacitors around power on circuits (this one can create heat)
Again, FLIR is needed for this. Or careful thermal probing of SMD components with board being fully connected while outside of the case and plastic housing. Once a hot one is found this could be examined further.
Some research directions here...
Last edited:
You clearly have about 0.3 A to 0.6 A dark current. Something is consuming this energy and dissipating it into heat. When capacitors are shot they now represent a short on the circuit where there not supposed to be one. Such short will now create this dark current.
Capacitors fail due to old age, high heat (vicious circle), and bad power supplies that deliver spikes and poorly filtered power. Big electrolytic capacitors dry out, explode, leak, but SMD capacitors fail too - they crack and melt.
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IciwMsWX_Y4There could be other failed components, it's just that capacitors are ubiquitous in this regard.
I do remove the board, to see if there's any clear evidence of burned/short capacitors. And indeed I do have the urge to remove that pinky gummy blob, and ad some PC's cpu paste to it. But the fact that I still feel a good heat to the screen area directly below it, it means that it's still have some good heat conductivity, so I'll leave that to deal with it later.
that's one hell of BGA rework.
Thank you, I'll do it later after clearing some other problems.
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1Hello ROMSG,
Can you confirm the battery is drained vs being read as drained? You could try measuring the voltage on battery contacts before and after to confirm.
Or, since this would not hurt, without even confirming, for fun, try and clean out your USB port and the C end of the USB cable with strong alcohol, and then compressed air. Dry for sure - leave it in the sun for a while laying on or right next to some table salt.
Why:
I just finished analyzing a thread with unrelated issue, but there, it seems to me that bad USB port was causing get this: low reading from otherwise good battery (or actually create a drain - dark current on the USB connector itself). No idea why, but must be connected somehow.
I had re-soldered USB port twice in the past and once the power switch on my own devices, so it would not surprise me at all that those internal components would fail. And I am kind of super precise in how insert the cable, just time, I guess.1
Lg up typically causes battery drain but not like what you described. Also reflashing wont fix frp in all cases, since the versions of android on these devices is so old frp bypasses are typically a better route. I know from expierence.
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