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bottom line on Android head units and connecting amps and subs

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Can't figure out what bass enhancement does. Bass filter is to filter bass from speakers and surround is to adjust timing.
Yeah I'm with you on this one. I assume it was only used with sub out RCA as neither my joying or IDoing have any affect when changing this, but if you say it doesn't work with sub out then I have no idea.
 

CaliBurr

Member
May 14, 2021
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Yeah, I think the dac happens before the optical or spdif out but I could be wrong. Those $50 units get mixed reviews. That was my original plan though. I have been enjoying some 5.1 music though, I don't see how the optical would change much if I just convert the signal back to stereo with a y adapter. I would have 5 different l/r rcas that are actually mono..
. I don't know how I would amplify that unless I used a 6 channel amp. But everything sounds great... so you or another poster was saying the signal is 1.5 v instead of 4v? Isn't a lower signal less distortion as long as your amp recognizes it? They have high to low signal converters but not sure about low to high... I was thinking about splicing the rear amplified signal from left and right speakers 4 wires into a high to low line converter to get rca to go into my rear amp so I can keep fader control. Those things are only like $20.
 

ziddey

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2007
1,809
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Because the optical is 5.1 so a DAC would be mono output to each speaker, and there isn't a digital rca spdif or optical that is stereo.
Have you confirmed this?? What model? I have an fyt uis7862 unit (navifly) and the digital output is definitely standard pcm stereo. I'm currently using a cheap household dac (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MPF4F68/) while I wait for my line driver to arrive so I can use the sub-out. While the output is still a bit low (amp gain maxed out), it's definitely passable.

Off topic, but is the eq busted for all variants (must be a software thing then?)? If I set a cutoff for the front/rear, it seems to apply to the sub-out as well. Kind of useless then..
 
Can't figure out what bass enhancement does. Bass filter is to filter bass from speakers and surround is to adjust timing.
ok so not sure what I did different than the last 10X, but today long drive in the corvette with stock bose system my I tested this and other settings again on my joying and WOW it not only kicked in, but kicked in big time. Setting this to 75% really kicked in my from subs.
 

CaliBurr

Member
May 14, 2021
47
2
Have you confirmed this?? What model? I have an fyt uis7862 unit (navifly) and the digital output is definitely standard pcm stereo. I'm currently using a cheap household dac (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MPF4F68/) while I wait for my line driver to arrive so I can use the sub-out. While the output is still a bit low (amp gain maxed out), it's definitely passable.

Off topic, but is the eq busted for all variants (must be a software thing then?)? If I set a cutoff for the front/rear, it seems to apply to the sub-out as well. Kind of useless then..
I am using a Hengcheng s9 pro https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001723766214.html
Yes, if you plug it into a DAC like this you will get L and right audio, but not sure if it is going to give me front or rear signal. The RCA out I have is FRONT. No way to know without trying...
My eq cutoff works. I have my sub at 30-40hz and my front speakers dont play below 40hz..
 
Have you confirmed this?? What model? I have an fyt uis7862 unit (navifly) and the digital output is definitely standard pcm stereo. I'm currently using a cheap household dac (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MPF4F68/) while I wait for my line driver to arrive so I can use the sub-out. While the output is still a bit low (amp gain maxed out), it's definitely passable.

Off topic, but is the eq busted for all variants (must be a software thing then?)? If I set a cutoff for the front/rear, it seems to apply to the sub-out as well. Kind of useless then..
Oh that's interesting, I was thinking if I tried this I'd get a 4 or 4.1 channel DAC, but if it's just PCM stereo on the optical then no point, and just go with the stereo out. I may get a cheap amp and this DAC and try to augment the bose system in the corvette.

Right now the only amp in the car are sub amps on mini subs in each door. putting a DAC and amp between the HU and the Bose system may create a mess, but could be interesting to try. Harder to find room for it than to wire it up to test.
 
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CaliBurr

Member
May 14, 2021
47
2
I think I will use a line out converter to convert the amplified signal to the rear because on the diagram it doesn't show that a rear AUX can be added. Not to mention it looks like the front AUX is an amplified signal... hmm....
H43c89e84c71043b685b3e2a11b5828fas.jpg
 

ziddey

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2007
1,809
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@CaliBurr looking at the pictures of your model, it looks like a fyt uis7862? If so, I have the same one, but seemingly the older version without the fan.

If so, it might come with a plug for rear outputs? I don't see it in the picture, but mine came with a plug that has 2 canbus leads + rl/rr out

edit: just looked at the diagram you included. C3/C4. Those are pre-outs, but assumedly very low voltage if it's like the front ones, and would likely benefit from a line driver: https://www.amazon.com/Peripheral-PAC-LD10-Driver-Booster/dp/B003LWV77Y

The high level speaker outputs are on "G: main power cord" not included in your diagram.

I just got mine today, and am now using the sub-out with great results. Wish I adjusted the gain on it before buttoning the dash back up. Not sure what the initial setting is, but it's definitely a little excessive (no distortion though seemingly so it's fine).
 

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CaliBurr

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It looks like it would have to go into port C which is ASL_OUT and ASR_OUT which I believe is occupied by the amplified signal going into my car's original factory CANBUS. I assume the "A" in ASL_OUT stands for amplified signal line, but on the "A" port there is no ASL_OUT only AUX_FL OUT so I am wondering how they are getting an AUX OUT FRONT R+L if the only signal is amplified by the internal amplifier. That RCA worked when I plugged it into my monoblock, but now I am using the green subwoofer out with a Y cable.
 

ziddey

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Aug 26, 2007
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The speaker level outputs are all on the G port. The rear outs on C are just pre-outs, at least on my model, which looks to be the same as yours
 
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CaliBurr

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nice. That should work then, if I can find that connector. What are the other wires other than the AUX L and R?
 

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CaliBurr

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I wonder if it will no longer be able to control DSP timing from rear speakers if I do this since they will essentially be on one channel instead of 2. I'm leaving the front amplified with the amp in the HU, I just have this old class AB amp I might as well hook up. I'm suprised yours has no fan. Is it the 8 core processor?
 

CaliBurr

Member
May 14, 2021
47
2
Have you confirmed this?? What model? I have an fyt uis7862 unit (navifly) and the digital output is definitely standard pcm stereo. I'm currently using a cheap household dac (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MPF4F68/) while I wait for my line driver to arrive so I can use the sub-out. While the output is still a bit low (amp gain maxed out), it's definitely passable.

Off topic, but is the eq busted for all variants (must be a software thing then?)? If I set a cutoff for the front/rear, it seems to apply to the sub-out as well. Kind of useless then..
@ziddey Why are you using a line driver? I have my gain at less than halfway and my subwoofer turned all the way up on the head unit and I start clipping at VOL 20. Of course my dual 2 ohm sub is only wired for 4 ohms and seeing 600w if that. I will probably wire it for 1 ohm and max gain out without clipping. But turn your subwoofer enhancement up rather than gain that way it's all done through the dsp, no? I have my gain set so I can crank my remote control knob on my sub without clipping at a volume of 20. And the eq is for sure working on front and rear speaker cutoff.
 

ziddey

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2007
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Why would they be on one channel? You have rear left/right pre-outs. Yeah, I didn't realize the fyt 7862s came with fans until I saw your unit. I'm guessing it didn't really need it originally when it used the tda7851l dac, but now that they've silented switched to the tda7838, there's overheating issues. I just got mine the other week, so I'm pretty sure it's got the tda7838. Maybe next time I pull it out, I'll rig a fan on there (unfortunately I gotta take a ton of dash panels off to get to the headunit in my car).

As for the line driver, apparently it's been a standard issue of these headunits for years, including the latest fyt/ts10 7862s from what I've read. I didn't measure my output, but it's said to produce only 0.6v. I didn't try my proper 12" sub/amp combo; this is a tiny hatchback that I'm not willing to sacrifice any space in, so I'm just using a powered underseat alpine 8 incher. Didn't get any meaningful output with both the sub volume maxed out at 10 and the amp gain maxed. Same with using the left/right pre-outs. Used a household dac via optical while I waited for the line driver, which was underwhelming but almost passable. Got the line driver in the mail today and it's performing far better than I was expecting for an underseat sub.

I was hoping to use the headunit to control the lpf / hpf (subsonic), but it doesn't seem to be working properly at all. For example, if I set it to <250hz, I seem to lose all bass (seems it works in reverse??). So I just have it set to passthrough and have the amp set to around 90hz.

With the line driver at whatever gain it came preset at, and my sub amp gain set at 50%, sub volume of 2 is pretty spot on, 4 is as strong as I'd like, and any more is excessive (maybe I could lower the lpf a bit, but it's an 8 incher after all)

There's a bunch of threads about low pre-out voltages, mostly for older gen units and I was hoping it'd be addressed by now, but apparently not. e.g. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/px6-subwoofer-volume-very-low.3945752/

edit: For G:
ill: illumination
back_con: reverse signal? (for the backup camera)
ad2_in/ad1_in: i believe this is key1/sw1 / key2/sw2. For non-canbus steering wheel controls (resistor network style). Also you short them or something when throwing the device into diag mode or something?

Strange that the reverse wire is on the main dongle, but the actual plug for the camera has brake and ir wires? I'll probably get a camera in the future, but not really interested in running the wires at the moment.

Also, if you haven't checked this thread out yet, it's a zoo of information on our units: https://4pda.to/forum/index.php?showtopic=1000996
Lot of good topics linked from the original post, but I'm sure there's so much more buried in the pages. A bit hard to search since I'm using a translator.
 
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CaliBurr

Member
May 14, 2021
47
2
Why would they be on one channel? You have rear left/right pre-outs. Yeah, I didn't realize the fyt 7862s came with fans until I saw your unit. I'm guessing it didn't really need it originally when it used the tda7851l dac, but now that they've silented switched to the tda7838, there's overheating issues. I just got mine the other week, so I'm pretty sure it's got the tda7838. Maybe next time I pull it out, I'll rig a fan on there (unfortunately I gotta take a ton of dash panels off to get to the headunit in my car).

As for the line driver, apparently it's been a standard issue of these headunits for years, including the latest fyt/ts10 7862s from what I've read. I didn't measure my output, but it's said to produce only 0.6v. I didn't try my proper 12" sub/amp combo; this is a tiny hatchback that I'm not willing to sacrifice any space in, so I'm just using a powered underseat alpine 8 incher. Didn't get any meaningful output with both the sub volume maxed out at 10 and the amp gain maxed. Same with using the left/right pre-outs. Used a household dac via optical while I waited for the line driver, which was underwhelming but almost passable. Got the line driver in the mail today and it's performing far better than I was expecting for an underseat sub.

I was hoping to use the headunit to control the lpf / hpf (subsonic), but it doesn't seem to be working properly at all. For example, if I set it to <250hz, I seem to lose all bass (seems it works in reverse??). So I just have it set to passthrough and have the amp set to around 90hz.

With the line driver at whatever gain it came preset at, and my sub amp gain set at 50%, sub volume of 2 is pretty spot on, 4 is as strong as I'd like, and any more is excessive (maybe I could lower the lpf a bit, but it's an 8 incher after all)

There's a bunch of threads about low pre-out voltages, mostly for older gen units and I was hoping it'd be addressed by now, but apparently not. e.g. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/px6-subwoofer-volume-very-low.3945752/

edit: For G:
ill: illumination
back_con: reverse signal? (for the backup camera)
ad2_in/ad1_in: i believe this is key1/sw1 / key2/sw2. For non-canbus steering wheel controls (resistor network style). Also you short them or something when throwing the device into diag mode or something?

Strange that the reverse wire is on the main dongle, but the actual plug for the camera has brake and ir wires? I'll probably get a camera in the future, but not really interested in running the wires at the moment.

Also, if you haven't checked this thread out yet, it's a zoo of information on our units: https://4pda.to/forum/index.php?showtopic=1000996
Lot of good topics linked from the original post, but I'm sure there's so much more buried in the pages. A bit hard to search since I'm using a translator.
Each channel would have to be on a seperate signal if you want to adjust timing, no? If I only have one RCA going into my amp both channels will be the same, right? Looks like my canbus settings are on The C port as well CAN_CX and CAN_RX. I would need a mini 8 pin iso to RCA out and the CANRX and CX AND RST_ wire. They won't provide me with this cable.
On another note, do you know how to switch to AUX in? It is not an option on the stock music player and it doesnt seem there is a seperate app for it...
 
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ziddey

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2007
1,809
1,558
I've never tried aux in, but I have an app for it. Saw the other thread, and I don't have any cameras enabled, so maybe that's why.

As for the pre-outs, there's left, right (presumably front), rear left, rear right, and sub. How are you planning on hooking just one channel?
 

CaliBurr

Member
May 14, 2021
47
2
I've never tried aux in, but I have an app for it. Saw the other thread, and I don't have any cameras enabled, so maybe that's why.

As for the pre-outs, there's left, right (presumably front), rear left, rear right, and sub. How are you planning on hooking just one channel?
Yes but I only have front left right pre outs and sub and I am trying to hook up an amp for rear component speakers. My amp is a two channel amp but only has one rca signal input so my rear left and rear right speaker will each go on one channel.
 

sundiver

Member
Mar 9, 2006
19
0
Interestingly, I'm fighting with this now in another thread. I was using a 2 din Atoto unit with built in SPDIF out and things were great. I had to switch to a single din motorized head unit to make room for another device. The new head unit only has analog out. I got it all hooked and and.... this... doesn't... sound... right.... I don't have a spectrum analyzer, but the sound from the analog outputs is noticeably off compared to digital, and I can only get my USB->SPDIF adapter to work with Neutron audio player. Everything else will only go to the analog outputs.
 

CaliBurr

Member
May 14, 2021
47
2
Yes but I only have front left right pre outs and sub and I am trying to hook up an amp for rear component speakers

It
Interestingly, I'm fighting with this now in another thread. I was using a 2 din Atoto unit with built in SPDIF out and things were great. I had to switch to a single din motorized head unit to make room for another device. The new head unit only has analog out. I got it all hooked and and.... this... doesn't... sound... right.... I don't have a spectrum analyzer, but the sound from the analog outputs is noticeably off compared to digital, and I can only get my USB->SPDIF adapter to work with Neutron audio player. Everything else will only go to the analog outputs.
That's bizarre. Did you have to change settings in neutron to get your USB to spdif to work? I tried neutron because I heard good things but hated it... took forever to compile my 1tb music library. I am using vanilla and foobar2000 but foobar seems to be skipping on lossless tracks. I know it's not my Sandisk Extreme 1tb read speeds because vanilla music reads it fine. I tried setting it to pre buffer the tracks but it isn't working. I want to use optical out but I can't find a dac that doesn't convert the signal to mono outputs and I don't want to convert mono to stereo with a y adapter. What amp are you using that has optical inputs? They are all like 1k plus. Was your optical signal 5.1 or stereo?
 

ziddey

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2007
1,809
1,558
Ah if you can't get the harness for the rear output, you'll have to make one yourself, or repurpose some of the other rca plugs if you're not using them. It's pretty easy to press down on the locking tab to pull the wire out. If your prebuilt harness has a canbus decoder, it should at least have the plug for that block at least. Just need to add more wires to it.
 

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  • 1
    Damn, this unit worked wonders. The remote knob controls the voltage of my signal now.

    I was missing so much power from my amp. I recommend this to anyone who has an android head unit, and no I am not an affiliate.
  • 1
    I've actually purchased a few of these over the years, mostly because they were very vague on this specific feature. Given many of these units are identical just rebranded copies it's hard to sort things out.

    The following is based on countless hours searching the web and 4 or 5 personal purchases of these Android head units. If any of this is incorrect please tell me because I have been desperately searching for one due to BMWs incessant need to one off everything.

    In my experience the bottom line is no. Android head units do not offer genuine sub support. Yes you can use the rear output and a line converter or run the signal into the high level inputs on your amp (if it has it) but there is still a very simple a basic problem. You still won't have the needed components and or firmware to properly run it. Specifically frequency control, crossover or even a 7 band eq on the unit. I only found one that offered that last and it was janky to say the least (more probably offer the eq now but still very subpar) assuming you can run v4a on the unit that may clear some up but that was written for head phones not a 4 or more speaker system.
    Another point is most mainstream headunits, pioneer, Kenwood, alpine heck even boss have 4v rca preout and signal conditioners not to mention both high and low-pass crossovers.

    Unfortunately to my knowledge these Chinese Android suppliers have really missed the ball. Yes they offer some cool features but car audio guy's spend many thousands of dollars on these systems and to be honest I have a avh-4500NEX in my 325xi and since it mirrors wirelessly as well as Android auto and car play wireless it provides excellent sound.
    Major difference my NEX $1800.00 us brand new these Android's I've seen get spendy but mostly right around 150-400. But you get what you pay for.
    The biggest bonus I found though was you can put them anywhere since they are mostly just and inch or two deep.

    If I missed the mark please let me know and if you could send a link to where I can pick up a decent one. The I-Drive in my 535i is making a stereo upgrade next to impossible
    1
    they do have

    this is the honest **** i been scouring for... as a AV guy everyone keeps telling me go daisaita blah blah blah but everyone here seems to not have ears or know what they are talking about when it comes to sound... my original gut was to pick up a NEX but i got side tracked with Atoto and the rest because everyone talks out their ass about how amazing they are... with no clue about their soul purpose

    They have amazing abilities for instance the iDrive in my 525i is old and outdated and these Android HU are the only option and they are fully functional and compatible which no mainstream HU can claim that I'm aware of. But I'll deal with old and crappy and tap the harness for a signal for my amp before I'll downgrade on sound quality.

    You can use an Android successfully IF you install an EQ and probably noise filter but there goes the saving you would have seen.
    1
    Apparently you haven't played with any of the recent Joyings....You also obviously don't have much experience with different cell phones out there either.

    Ok, fine....show me a Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, etc that can run Google Maps, Waze, Firefox, Gaia Navigation, Torque Pro, APRS Droid, etc natively, right on the unit....just ONE unit, from ANY of the "big name" manufacturers...they just plain don't exist. Not a single one that runs Android natively, or anything else other than their own, completely closed souce, proprietary OSes that we can't do anything with beyond what comes installed on them from the factory. Don't like their nav app, launcher, or general interface? Tough schmitt...

    I've said the same thing for many years...I'd be HAPPY to drop a $1,000USD or more on a solid unit from a major manufacturer that runs Android natively. Or even a Linux based OS, that I can add additional apps to. Hell, I was dropping a thousand plus on putting a touch screen in my dash connected to a PC tower in the back YEARS before these factory double din units hit the market. Some company like Pioneer drops one of them, and I'd be one of the first in line screaming "take my money!!".

    Screen mirroring isn't an option for everyone either, as screen mirroring is largely based on Miracast. Especially so for anyone with a Google phone, such as my Pixel. Google has gone out of their way to limit or even eliminate that ability to push more sales of their lousy Chromecast devices, and they have stripped Miracast support out of the core Android as of version 6 (Marshmallow). If your phone supports screen mirroring, that's because whoever made it added Miracast support back in themselves. Android Auto is also a rather lousy compromise for many of us, such as myself, that want to run alternative apps. If it wasn't coded to run within Android Auto, it generally ain't happening which is the case for the navigation app that I use for off road purposes.

    I've tried several different Pioneer double din touch screens with several different Android phones. Never once was I able to get screen mirroring/mirrorlink to work correctly to truly screen mirror the phone. Only the crippled Android Auto worked...which is what ultimately pushed me into completely going with these Chinese Android head units.

    That said, the Joying JY-UO135N4GS - https://www.joyingauto.com/joying-l...avigation-system-with-built-in-4g-module.html that I have in the truck right now does have a 16 band EQ built in, F&R RCAs as well as a dedicated Sub RCA output, though it's a single. I haven't put a meter on it to verify voltage, but I'm guessing it's around 2V based on gain settings on the amp compared to other head units that I've known to have 2V outputs. A LOT of "brand name" head units today still come with 2V outputs. Also has both LPF and Subsonic filters on the sub output, as well as independent HPF crossovers on F&R channels. I currently have my subs set to 30Hz-100hz, fronts set to 80Hz high pass, and rears at 135Hz high pass (yeah..blame Chevy and their piss poor design on their trucks). Subs are a pair of JBL GTO 12s fed by a Kenwood monoblock amp. Door speakers are Infinity Kappa 6.5s, rears are factory 4x10s.

    Is the sound quality on par with the Pioneer head unit that it replaced? No. Can I hear the difference at 75mph over the wind and diesel engine noise? Nope. Maybe I'd hear the difference if I put one of these Joyings in my Cadillac...Do I plan to replace this Joying with a Pioneer/Alpine/Kenwood/etc? Wait for it....has not ever once crossed my mind. I also have a Joying in my Suzuki Samurai, and am shopping for another Android unit for my Suzuki Grand Vitara.
    1
    @CaliBurr looking at the pictures of your model, it looks like a fyt uis7862? If so, I have the same one, but seemingly the older version without the fan.

    If so, it might come with a plug for rear outputs? I don't see it in the picture, but mine came with a plug that has 2 canbus leads + rl/rr out

    edit: just looked at the diagram you included. C3/C4. Those are pre-outs, but assumedly very low voltage if it's like the front ones, and would likely benefit from a line driver: https://www.amazon.com/Peripheral-PAC-LD10-Driver-Booster/dp/B003LWV77Y

    The high level speaker outputs are on "G: main power cord" not included in your diagram.

    I just got mine today, and am now using the sub-out with great results. Wish I adjusted the gain on it before buttoning the dash back up. Not sure what the initial setting is, but it's definitely a little excessive (no distortion though seemingly so it's fine).
    1
    The speaker level outputs are all on the G port. The rear outs on C are just pre-outs, at least on my model, which looks to be the same as yours