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Can I still keep my root in this situation?

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blues

Member
Sep 10, 2007
35
1
I was on RC19 with root. And I have the certs renamed to avoid the RC30 update.

In order to download a few apps from market, I renamed the certs back, and I renamed the updater.apk.

But it still goes to download the RC30 and reboot the phone. While it is booting, I took the battery out.

Now every time I power on, it still goes to the boot screen with a progress bar showing the update progress. So I keep the phone off now.

Is there still chance for me to go back to RC19 or update to a modified RC30 with root?
 

JesusFreke

Inactive Recognized Developer
Oct 23, 2008
736
54
Dallas
I was on RC19 with root. And I have the certs renamed to avoid the RC30 update.

In order to download a few apps from market, I renamed the certs back, and I renamed the updater.apk.

But it still goes to download the RC30 and reboot the phone. While it is booting, I took the battery out.

Now every time I power on, it still goes to the boot screen with a progress bar showing the update progress. So I keep the phone off now.

Is there still chance for me to go back to RC19 or update to a modified RC30 with root?

Hey blues, give me an IM. I'll be darned if I let another phone be updated to RC30 when it can still be prevented :D
 

Darkrift

Senior Member
Oct 5, 2006
535
22
San Tan Valley, Arizona
First, you didnt read about renaming the certs. You could have renamed the OTA certs and left the others which would have let you use the market fine. People need to be more careful with this crap and read better. Not to be a jerk, but these are expensive phones to be messing with like this and not paying attention. I would hate to see a bunch of new G1 users bricking their devices because they tried removing a battery during an update.
 

Gary13579

Retired Moderator
Nov 14, 2008
526
69
First, you didnt read about renaming the certs. You could have renamed the OTA certs and left the others which would have let you use the market fine. People need to be more careful with this crap and read better. Not to be a jerk, but these are expensive phones to be messing with like this and not paying attention. I would hate to see a bunch of new G1 users bricking their devices because they tried removing a battery during an update.

(registered just to post this, LONG time lurker)

Also, root is locked off for this reason. So people DON'T **** up their phones, and HTC/T-Mobile ends up paying out the ass because of something YOU screwed up.

At the OP, try this: Take the sdcard out, put the RC28 or 29 on the card (as update.zip), then throw it back in. Even without changing the keys to test keys, or being able to rename the certs, this would allow you to update and keep root access. Then you could install the modded RC30.
 

JesusFreke

Inactive Recognized Developer
Oct 23, 2008
736
54
Dallas
Wow. I can feel the love tonight guys :p. Take it easy, geez. lol. So he made a mistake and almost ended up with RC30 installed. That's a far cry from bricking your phone.

Heck, even I screwed up and accidentally installed RC30 on my first phone :p
 

Gary13579

Retired Moderator
Nov 14, 2008
526
69
Wow. I can feel the love tonight guys :p. Take it easy, geez. lol. So he made a mistake and almost ended up with RC30 installed. That's a far cry from bricking your phone.

Heck, even I screwed up and accidentally installed RC30 on my first phone :p

No, but not reading correctly/renaming the wrong files could very very easily brick your phone. I'm not bashing him for almost upgrading, as that isn't really his fault (the updater is annoying as ****).

If T-Mobile has to replace thousands of bricked phones, do you really think Google would think twice about unlocking root?
 

blues

Member
Sep 10, 2007
35
1
I am back to RC19 now.

Here is what happened:
1. While the phone is booting, I removed the battery to stop the rc30 update.
2. I put rc29 as update.zip on the sdcard, and boot the phone.
3. While the rc30 update progress bar was moving on, I press alt+L
4. I saw the rc30 update is failed. It said some file under /cache is not correct.
5. And I saw the menu. then I press alt+S. It said unable to mount the sdcard. So the sdcard update failed either.
6. then I pressed the home+return, the phone boots. then I am back to rc19!

Not sure what happened!
 

JesusFreke

Inactive Recognized Developer
Oct 23, 2008
736
54
Dallas
No, but not reading correctly/renaming the wrong files could very very easily brick your phone. I'm not bashing him for almost upgrading, as that isn't really his fault (the updater is annoying as ****).

If T-Mobile has to replace thousands of bricked phones, do you really think Google would think twice about unlocking root?

I challenge you to actually brick a G1 just be deleting or renaming files.

They're more resilient than you think. Granted, it's fairly easy to make it so your phone won't boot up into normal mode. But as long as you have a viable recovery partition, you can just reflash and be good to go.

The only way to brick a phone I can think of offhand, just by simple file manipulation, would be to overwrite /system/recovery.img with some random file, and then make some other change so that it wouldn't boot in normal mode.
 

Gary13579

Retired Moderator
Nov 14, 2008
526
69
I challenge you to actually brick a G1 just be deleting or renaming files.

They're more resilient than you think. Granted, it's fairly easy to make it so your phone won't boot up into normal mode. But as long as you have a viable recovery partition, you can just reflash and be good to go.

The only way to brick a phone I can think of offhand, just by simple file manipulation, would be to overwrite /system/recovery.img with some random file, and then make some other change so that it wouldn't boot in normal mode.

I'm not actually going to try it, but if the phone doesn't boot, it is essentially a brick.

How would you go about recovering a phone that won't boot? With the official keys. Would the recovery screen allow you to reflash an official update, say bricked modded RC30 to official RC30, since the build versions are the same? I'd assume no.

The only way I could see recovering a bricked phone is if the updater allowed you to install versions <= the current version. Or if there is some kind of "is everything okay" check on important files to insure that the phone would boot, and if there isn't, allow an install that's = the current build.

Even so, the phones would still be bricked and would probably require customer service/return, which would cost T-Mobile quite a bit. Even if all they have to do is reflash it, time is money.
 

neoobs

Retired Moderator
Mar 25, 2008
1,271
11
He means it won't boot into the normal screen but you could still boot into the recovery partition and wipe the phone clean.

And I believe you can install updates from the same version... I installed the RC29 update twice with no errors.
 

JesusFreke

Inactive Recognized Developer
Oct 23, 2008
736
54
Dallas
How would you go about recovering a phone that won't boot? With the official keys. Would the recovery screen allow you to reflash an official update, say bricked modded RC30 to official RC30, since the build versions are the same? I'd assume no.

If you have the "official" recovery image, using t-mobile's proprietary keys, then you can always re-apply the same update that the recovery image is from. All of the official updates do a version check, which is performed against the version string that's stored on the recovery partition - in /default.prop, on the recovery initramfs image, and *not* against the version stored on the system partition - /system/build.prop. And all of the full updates so far allow you to reflash the same version you are on.

For example, in the full, official RC30 update, here are all of the version strings that it checks for. Your version must match one of these in order for the update to apply


"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC30/116143:user/ota-rel-keys,release-keys"
"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC29/115247:user/ota-rel-keys,release-keys"
"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC28/114235:user/ota-rel-keys,release-keys"
"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC19/109652:user/ota-rel-keys,release-keys"
"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC30/116143:user/ota-rel-keys,test-keys"
"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC29/115247:user/ota-rel-keys,test-keys"
"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC28/114235:user/ota-rel-keys,test-keys"
"tmobile/kila/dream/trout:1.0/TC4-RC19/109652:user/ota-rel-keys,test-keys"


Notice the first one, which is the same version as what the update applies onto the phone.


So assuming that you have a full update for the same version you are running, then the only way you could brick the phone is to hose both your recovery and boot (or system) partitions at the same time. If you just hose the recovery partition, you can boot up into normal mode and reflash a new recovery image. Or if you hose your boot or system partition, you can boot into recovery mode and re-apply the update, which will wipe the boot and system partitions and load a known-good version.
 

JesusFreke

Inactive Recognized Developer
Oct 23, 2008
736
54
Dallas
And if you have the modified recovery image, you can craft your own updates of course, and apply any version you feel like applying - modified or not.
 

Gary13579

Retired Moderator
Nov 14, 2008
526
69
Ahh, yes. It is a bit stronger than I thought, and I feel a bit more comfortable working with it :p.

But still. If someones phone doesn't boot, they will probably take it back to T-Mobile, not wait days for someone to post how you can restore it.
 

JesusFreke

Inactive Recognized Developer
Oct 23, 2008
736
54
Dallas
I doubt it. If they're doing something that could brick the phone, they (almost certainly) have root access, and they should realize that t-mobile will give them a new phone that probably won't be rootable (more and more likely as the existing RC28 units are sold off)
 

Gary13579

Retired Moderator
Nov 14, 2008
526
69
I dunno. I was in the Playstation Portable scene for years (was an admin at one of the largest sites at the time), people are pretty stupid.
 

Impossible

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2005
94
0
My opinion on this situation is one that it helps us overall

If a unit is bricked either due to a bad flash or poor understanding of why you need access such as root, then having fall backs such as JF is suggestions helps the community.

It helps build a strong collection of tools to recover units that are self damaged or accidentally damaged and allows an increase of people trying to do different things with the unit who wouldn’t necessarily try due to the risk of killing the devices.

Check out Olipro who actually enjoys the challenge of finding work arounds but detests the attention that it can generate (in terms of xda forums being on the top of google, and the potential more uneducated users ask simple questions repeatedly) Until JF stops with the helping im assuming he’s enjoying the android game too!

I know people don’t like long posts and you have probably skipped to this end part... But I would personally say that imo 90% of G1 users doesn’t actually need ROOT access anyway.

Imp