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Charger Performance - New App and results

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BigPhil

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2007
102
45
Nuneaton
Have you ever wondered how an EP800 compares to an EP850, or an iPad charger? I have. Reading the comments on the forum there is a lot of subjective opinion, but little in the way of facts. With this in mind I decided to make a little app to measure how long it takes the phone to charge from 20% to 80%.

20% was chosen as the start because readings below this have a high uncertainty

80% was the ceiling because the Xperia shows down charging somewhere around 90% to protect the battery.

I wanted to ensure I was measuring the charger at its peak output.

So far I have done 3 runs:

EP800 (rated 850ma) with normal USB cable, 8845 seconds (est 427ma)
HTC B250 (rated 1000ma) with normal USB cable, 7910 seconds (est 477ma)
Unbranded (rated 1500ma) with "data" cable 3120 seconds (est 1211ma)

My current suspicion is that the charger is not as important as we have previously believed, it could be all about the cable. I will run some more tests over the next week using the same charger with different cables.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to give it a go, my app is available here

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vexedbadger.chargertimer

(once Google gets around to approving it)

and my latest results are here

http://vexedbadger.com/?page_id=97

But I will keep this thread updated until I reach a satisfactory conclusion.

I am also eagerly anticipating the EP851. I wonder just how good its boost charge feature is. Could it simply be a normal 2A charger with pins 2 and 3 bridged?

If you do give the app a try, post your results here.


-----------------------------------------------------

For newcomers to this thread I believe I have made an important discovery. I ran a test using a HTC B250 1A charger. I did it first using a normal USB cable. I then repeated it using a USB charge cable (2 wires, no data lines) and got these results


Data Cable, 7910 seconds, est 477 ma
Charge Cable, 3530 seconds, est 1071ma

In other words the cable you chose to run between your charger and the phone is absolutely critical in determining the charge speed. Here I have observed over a 100% speed increase.

Using the supplied EP800 (850ma)

Data Cable, 8845 seconds, est 417ma
Charge Cable, 5170 seconds, est 731ma

Again, a huge difference.

Oh, and the BlackBerry Playbook charger is a beast.
 
Last edited:

BigPhil

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2007
102
45
Nuneaton
I have just done a run with the BlackBerry Playbook charger HDW 34625 (2000ma).

20-80 in 2875 seconds. That means approx 1314ma output. An estimated 0-100 in 1hour 20 minutes.

I have a new charger of choice : )
 

Scratchling

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2012
571
107
Dublin
I suspect you're correct OP.

I charge mine with a 1A iPod charger with an x10 cable + 8M Extension cable(sockets only on one side of the room), with that charging is pretty slow. Tried it without the extension but it wasnt noticeably faster. Then one time I used a 15cm USB Micro cable from an unknown device on the front USB port of my desktop(500ma maybe, probably less) and it was insanely fast.

So yeah, think its the cable.
 

BigPhil

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2007
102
45
Nuneaton
Nice find, but is it good to charge the battery like that ? :rolleyes:

My guess is that Sony know a thing or two about batteries. They control the amount of charge passed to the battery. A very conscious decision is made at 90% to reduce the power flow to the battery. I am happy to chuck as much power as I can at it.

Also remember that Sony are about to release the EP851, a high speed charger.
 

defsix

Senior Member
Aug 18, 2011
452
80
If I remember correctly if you connect only the power cables within a USB cable the maximum you will get from most devices is 500ma. If you connect all 4 cables as a regular USB data cable, the 2 devices communicate and then the phone will ask for maximum current from the USB host. This could be several amps. This is why there is a variations in charging times. Try several different cable on the same port, then try them all again charging from different hosts, ie. OEM USB charger, computer usb port, other USB chargers.

Sent from my LT26i using xda premium
 

BigPhil

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2007
102
45
Nuneaton
If I remember correctly if you connect only the power cables within a USB cable the maximum you will get from most devices is 500ma. If you connect all 4 cables as a regular USB data cable, the 2 devices communicate and then the phone will ask for maximum current from the USB host. This could be several amps. This is why there is a variations in charging times. Try several different cable on the same port, then try them all again charging from different hosts, ie. OEM USB charger, computer usb port, other USB chargers.

Sent from my LT26i using xda premium

I think you are close top the answer there. The USB 2.0 spec says 500ma per port. This spec was written long before charging smartphones via generic USB cables became the norm. Some manufacturers now offer high ampage ports on the motherboards. I know Apple does, my aBit one does and a few gigabit ones do.

The phone tries to detect if it is being charged from a computer USB port where it is capped at 500ma, or from a power supply that supports more than this. There are two conventions that I know of. Apple puts a resistor between pins 2 and 3 (the data pins). IF this resistor is present hen the device charges at full power. HTC (and a few others) rely solely on pins 2 and 3 being bridged. I think this is the USB standard as well. Some batter apps will tell you if the detected charger is in AC (high ampage) or USB (capped) charge mode. The speed difference is pretty dramatic.

Some cables come with pins 2 and 3 pre-bridged. They are no good for syncing but great for charging. I am running some tests with one now.
 

shmoejoe

Senior Member
Jan 9, 2011
394
84
Zuid-Holland
Interesting app, I have a bunch of random USB chargers and such floating around. I use as my standard charger the 850, but I have wondered if I can get better charge from the piles of other chargers floating around.

I also have a BlackBerry bold charger (direct connection to phone via fixed USB cable) do you think that could perform better? I guess I will test it out first.

Thanks again for your useful apps! I used the nfc one and love it :)

Sent from my LT26i using XDA
 
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BigPhil

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2007
102
45
Nuneaton
5 Amps? Wow, that would be 25W put into a battery so you have a smoke machine as well ;-)
Multi-purpose charger

I have a usb3 pci card on order. I will post some test results when it does, but that will probably be June. In the meantime I am seeing a very noticeable difference using a charge cable. To the poster with the blackberry charger, I think that will leave your Sony charger standing
 
Last edited:

krabappel2548

Inactive Recognized Developer
Nov 15, 2011
6,443
16,111
Lommel
I have a usb3 pci card on order. I will post some test results when it does, but that will probably be June. In the meantime I am seeing a very noticeable difference using a charge cable. To the poster with the blackberry charger, I think that will leave your Sony charger standing

I have a USB 3.0 port, will do some tests on charging time between my USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 port ;)
Will post the results as soon as I have them :)
 

BigPhil

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2007
102
45
Nuneaton
I have just ran a test using my HTC 250 with a charge cable. THis is a charger I have previously tested with a normal data cable

Data Cable, 7910 seconds, est 477 ma
Charge Cable, 3530 seconds, est 1071ma

In other words the cable you chose to run between your charger and the phone is absolutely critical in determining the charge speed. Here I have observed over a 100% speed increase. Will update the first post with these findings.
 

FenrirMX

Senior Member
Apr 5, 2012
338
134
Troy, MI
Battery Charging Specification 1.2[12]: released in December 2010. Several changes and increasing limits including allowing 1.5A on charging ports for unconfigured devices, allowing High Speed communication while having a current up to 1.5A and allowing a maximum current of 5A.

So having a current up to 1.5 A or maximum current of 5A, which one is it?
My guess is that the second one meant volts.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
 

richteralan

Senior Member
Aug 3, 2010
1,877
914
Hong Kong
So having a current up to 1.5 A or maximum current of 5A, which one is it?
My guess is that the second one meant volts.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
No. The second one means 5A, if you bothered to read the specification whitepaper.

And my post explains clearly the difference between 1.5A and 5A current:

1.5A for "UNCONFIGURED DEVICES", and "HIGH SPEED COMMUNICATION WHILE HAVING A CURRENT UP TO 1.5A"

5A is the MAXIMUM ALLOWED CURRENT.
 

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  • 4
    Have you ever wondered how an EP800 compares to an EP850, or an iPad charger? I have. Reading the comments on the forum there is a lot of subjective opinion, but little in the way of facts. With this in mind I decided to make a little app to measure how long it takes the phone to charge from 20% to 80%.

    20% was chosen as the start because readings below this have a high uncertainty

    80% was the ceiling because the Xperia shows down charging somewhere around 90% to protect the battery.

    I wanted to ensure I was measuring the charger at its peak output.

    So far I have done 3 runs:

    EP800 (rated 850ma) with normal USB cable, 8845 seconds (est 427ma)
    HTC B250 (rated 1000ma) with normal USB cable, 7910 seconds (est 477ma)
    Unbranded (rated 1500ma) with "data" cable 3120 seconds (est 1211ma)

    My current suspicion is that the charger is not as important as we have previously believed, it could be all about the cable. I will run some more tests over the next week using the same charger with different cables.

    In the meantime, if anyone wants to give it a go, my app is available here

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vexedbadger.chargertimer

    (once Google gets around to approving it)

    and my latest results are here

    http://vexedbadger.com/?page_id=97

    But I will keep this thread updated until I reach a satisfactory conclusion.

    I am also eagerly anticipating the EP851. I wonder just how good its boost charge feature is. Could it simply be a normal 2A charger with pins 2 and 3 bridged?

    If you do give the app a try, post your results here.


    -----------------------------------------------------

    For newcomers to this thread I believe I have made an important discovery. I ran a test using a HTC B250 1A charger. I did it first using a normal USB cable. I then repeated it using a USB charge cable (2 wires, no data lines) and got these results


    Data Cable, 7910 seconds, est 477 ma
    Charge Cable, 3530 seconds, est 1071ma

    In other words the cable you chose to run between your charger and the phone is absolutely critical in determining the charge speed. Here I have observed over a 100% speed increase.

    Using the supplied EP800 (850ma)

    Data Cable, 8845 seconds, est 417ma
    Charge Cable, 5170 seconds, est 731ma

    Again, a huge difference.

    Oh, and the BlackBerry Playbook charger is a beast.
    3
    Is the Sony ECL600 not a charge cable then?

    Is that the one that comes with the phone? If it is, or you can use it to sync with a computer then no. From my limited testing (about 10 permutations) you will get a much faster charge time with a different cable. I found that the one that came with my kadigi dock works great, as does the orange tipped one built into the playbook charger.

    Sent from my LT26i using XDA
    2
    An attempt to un-scare people from third-party chargers...

    ...
    Seriously guys, I have weak knowledge abut how the battery charges, I mean about the physical process... Are you sure you are not harming the battery when charging it with unbranded cables / chargers?

    Can anyone tell that it is safe to charge your phone with anything, and explain why?

    The only thing a charger does is take the mains voltage and transform it into 5V direct current.
    The only difference is the ripple on the output voltage (the alternating part resulting from the transformation, I can explain that in more detail if you like), the maximum current that it can deliver and maybe some kind of communication with the device to tell it how much current it can take (for example a resistor between the data lines).

    The ripple doesn't need to concern you, as the phone also has capacitors that filter almost all of it out.
    The maximum current is only of concern in that it limits the maximum rate the phone is charging to a lower level (a 500mA charger cannot supply 1A). If a charger could, for example, supply 10A your phone would still only charge with maybe 1.5A, because the charging regulator inside the phone limits the current into the battery.
    If the charger does communicate with the device, fine, if it does not it will simply limit the current supplied to the phone.

    Of course I'm not saying any third party charger is good for your phone, it could for example supply 7V instead of 5V, possibly ruining the phone. But I think the majority of chargers are pretty safe, otherwise they wouldn't sell.
    2
    Ive just order myself an ep851. Dont know if I made the right move but I will test and compare and post my results :)

    Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2
    2
    oshungo mushroom blue stone 2100mah + sony ec600l = 2.658,00 secs from 20% to 80% = charger output 1422mah