Dedicated Runtime Thread (ART vs Dalvik)

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mbutandola

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2011
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Paris
Yes. I have an iPad,but I've turned off the animations in accessibility options. Scrolling is still smoother on my iPad. My Windows 8 phone is in another league for smoothness.

My Nexus 5 is in another league in performance.

Google will have to rethink the entire OS to achieve the same smoothness as Windows phone or iOS. All they've doing so far is patching

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk
 

Dr Tone

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
167
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Calgary
Google will have to rethink the entire OS to achieve the same smoothness as Windows phone or iOS. All they've doing so far is patching

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk

It's definitely getting better with ART. It's still just a debug feature there might be more room for it to improve before they go live.
 

wideasleep1

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2006
1,550
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Yes. In my tests with both animations on and off on Andy N5 vs. IOS7 5S both performed identically... ART is impressive and will get further optimizations before being fully incorporated. Can't speak to Windows phone..won't use it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

maxpower7

Senior Member
May 2, 2011
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Google will have to rethink the entire OS to achieve the same smoothness as Windows phone or iOS. All they've doing so far is patching

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While this is technically true, anyone who thinks Android isn't smooth enough on the N5 is way, way too nitpicky.
 

mbutandola

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2011
1,236
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Paris
While this is technically true, anyone who thinks Android isn't smooth enough on the N5 is way, way too nitpicky.

Never said it wasn't smooth enough. Just saying that compared to iOS and Windows phone, Android is still far behind. And it will always be unless the OS is completely revamped.

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk
 
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maxpower7

Senior Member
May 2, 2011
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Never said it wasn't smooth enough. Just saying that compared to iOS and Windows phone, Android is still far behind. And it will always be unless the OS is completely revamped.

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk

It was "far" behind in 2011. It's very close to both of them now, and it doesn't affect usability all (unlike a couple years ago).

Again, I agree with your post from a technical standpoint, because you're right that Android will need a total overhaul to get to that level. But honestly, I think you're overstating the degree of the difference in smoothness between iOS & Windows Phone and Android (on high-end handsets, at least).
 

hari88

Member
Aug 10, 2012
14
1
Art definitely seems snappier opening apps than even with the Moto X dalvik/bionic patches. Scrolling seems smoother also.

Sent from my AOSP on HammerHead using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

i totally agree..switched to Art on custom rom and custom kernel, and i had no problems at all..all apps worked great so far
 

aeppacher

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2012
792
777
It was "far" behind in 2011. It's very close to both of them now, and it doesn't affect usability all (unlike a couple years ago).

Again, I agree with your post from a technical standpoint, because you're right that Android will need a total overhaul to get to that level. But honestly, I think you're overstating the degree of the difference in smoothness between iOS & Windows Phone and Android (on high-end handsets, at least).

You can actually delete the high end part. Have you seen an iphone 4s run ios7? Its hysterical, my roommate had that until he switched to the nex5. It would take 20 seconds just to open the camera. Saving a photo took ages, it would reboot non stop. 15% battery left meant it was turning off in a minute. ios7 runs well on the iphone 5+ and the 5s has so many app issues since they introduced 64 bit. I have no clue what smoothness people are talking about when they refer to iOS. It used to be like that, but then again if you don't really change the operating system in 5 years, I expect it to get smooth.

Having used windows phone, I can say it is smooth as hell. That being said, no notification hub in over two years? And their update policy is absurd (the whole wp7 to wp8). It leaves a lot to want.
 
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lolpok

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2013
179
25
You can actually delete the high end part. Have you seen an iphone 4s run ios7? Its hysterical, my roommate had that until he switched to the nex5. It would take 20 seconds just to open the camera. Saving a photo took ages, it would reboot non stop. 15% battery left meant it was turning off in a minute. ios7 runs well on the iphone 5+ and the 5s has so many app issues since they introduced 64 bit. I have no clue what smoothness people are talking about when they refer to iOS. It used to be like that, but then again if you don't really change the operating system in 5 years, I expect it to get smooth.

Having used windows phone, I can say it is smooth as hell. That being said, no notification hub in over two years? And their update policy is absurd (the whole wp7 to wp8). It leaves a lot to want.

I couldn't say it better my self :)
 

Mazensahlieh

Member
Feb 24, 2011
40
3
Never said it wasn't smooth enough. Just saying that compared to iOS and Windows phone, Android is still far behind. And it will always be unless the OS is completely revamped.

I have both the iPad Air and the Nexus 5, and KitKat is defenitly smoother than the iOS 7 even after the 7.0.4 update, and I'm on dalvik by the way.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
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mbutandola

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2011
1,236
212
Paris
You can actually delete the high end part. Have you seen an iphone 4s run ios7? Its hysterical, my roommate had that until he switched to the nex5. It would take 20 seconds just to open the camera. Saving a photo took ages, it would reboot non stop. 15% battery left meant it was turning off in a minute. ios7 runs well on the iphone 5+ and the 5s has so many app issues since they introduced 64 bit. I have no clue what smoothness people are talking about when they refer to iOS. It used to be like that, but then again if you don't really change the operating system in 5 years, I expect it to get smooth.

Having used windows phone, I can say it is smooth as hell. That being said, no notification hub in over two years? And their update policy is absurd (the whole wp7 to wp8). It leaves a lot to want.

I don't know how iOS 7 runs on iPhone 4S. And the thing isn't about pros and cons of those OS. Windows phone is just in a league of it's own when it comes to smoothness and I very much doubt that Android could achieve that without a completely new OS. Still, I love my Nexus.

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk
 

darwinosx

Member
Jan 23, 2013
33
2
I know plenty of people who run iOS 7 on a 4s. it runs fine. On a phone that came out in October 2011. You really don't want to get into the subject of what Android phones run what versions of Android..especially older Android phones.
You comment about app issues under 64 bit is just wrong and its silly to post about something you don't know anything about.
Multi-touch performance and responsiveness is still significantly better on iOS devices and ART doesn't fix that.
I can see some people don't understand the difference between a runtime app and a compiled app. Dalvik and ART are a bit of both but runtime/JIT anything will always be slower. Another reason Google is moving to ART is because it is obvious that Dalvik is a filched JVM from Sun and Oracle which is still causing Google legal problems. Pretty stunning how much Google stole from other companies which is why their legal fees, fines, and payments from Android manufacturers to companies like Microsoft are so high.
My guess is that Google is dying to just get everything on Chrome as Android has been nothing but a lawsuit nightmare for them plus they have completely lost control of it. It was really a poorly run operation all the way around which is why Andy Rubin was booted from it.
From a usability perspective there is nothing in KitKat that makes an iOS device inherently better I will say that. But Google is nowhere near a 64 bit OS and new apps for iOS that take advantage of 64 bitness are far ahead of anything Android has to offer and it's just getting started.
In tablet in particular iOS is just laughing at Android in both hardware and software which for Apple is the same thing.
I have an N5 and Moto X and have had both iOS and Android phones from the beginning of each and know them and their internals better than most. Weird how Android users are still so insecure about their choice of device.

You can actually delete the high end part. Have you seen an iphone 4s run ios7? Its hysterical, my roommate had that until he switched to the nex5. It would take 20 seconds just to open the camera. Saving a photo took ages, it would reboot non stop. 15% battery left meant it was turning off in a minute. ios7 runs well on the iphone 5+ and the 5s has so many app issues since they introduced 64 bit. I have no clue what smoothness people are talking about when they refer to iOS. It used to be like that, but then again if you don't really change the operating system in 5 years, I expect it to get smooth.

Having used windows phone, I can say it is smooth as hell. That being said, no notification hub in over two years? And their update policy is absurd (the whole wp7 to wp8). It leaves a lot to want.


---------- Post added at 01:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 AM ----------

Animations are quite a bit quicker in the latest beta and you can of course turn animations off. But I can see its important to you to assume the N5 is better. it's not and nobody serious that owns or extensively used both would say that.


I agree. iOS 7 on both my friends 5s is laggy in scrolling and app opening animations (And it's a ripoff MIUI).
And regarding windows, opening any application will take a minimum of 3 seconds. Games take between 8-15 seconds!

So in summary, the N5 is the fastest and smoothest phone on the planet. Be happy people and stop nitpicking :good:
 
Last edited:

aeppacher

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2012
792
777
I know plenty of people who run iOS 7 on a 4s. it runs fine. On a phone that came out in October 2011. You really don't want to get into the subject of what Android phones run what versions of Android..especially older Android phones.
You comment about app issues under 64 bit is just wrong and its silly to post about something you don't know anything about.
Multi-touch performance and responsiveness is still significantly better on iOS devices and ART doesn't fix that.
I can see some people don't understand the difference between a runtime app and a compiled app. Dalvik and ART are a bit of both but runtime/JIT anything will always be slower. Another reason Google is moving to ART is because it is obvious that Dalvik is a filched JVM from Sun and Oracle which is still causing Google legal problems. Pretty stunning how much Google stole from other companies which is why their legal fees, fines, and payments from Android manufacturers to companies like Microsoft are so high.
My guess is that Google is dying to just get everything on Chrome as Android has been nothing but a lawsuit nightmare for them plus they have completely lost control of it. It was really a poorly run operation all the way around which is why Andy Rubin was booted from it.
From a usability perspective there is nothing in KitKat that makes an iOS device inherently better I will say that. But Google is nowhere near a 64 bit OS and new apps for iOS that take advantage of 64 bitness are far ahead of anything Android has to offer and it's just getting started.
In tablet in particular iOS is just laughing at Android in both hardware and software which for Apple is the same thing.
I have an N5 and Moto X and have had both iOS and Android phones from the beginning of each and know them and their internals better than most. Weird how Android users are still so insecure about their choice of device.



---------- Post added at 01:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 AM ----------

Animations are quite a bit quicker in the latest beta and you can of course turn animations off. But I can see its important to you to assume the N5 is better. it's not and nobody serious that owns or extensively used both would say that.

Oh god, its christmas and I don't want to have to do this, but it must be done. have you heard about kitkat on the nexus one?!?! Really wanna talk about old hardware running it well. Are you kidding me about Apple laughing as they win in hardware and software. Please tell me how people would laugh at a flagship that has less the 720P, a dual core processor with crappy architecture and lacking in coprocessors, a mediatek gpu, no nfc, no gorilla glass, made of the worlds most scratchable material, a 4 inch display, and a cost of $700+ unlocked. People would laugh their asses off, slap an apple logo on it and every fan boy to timbucktoo will find anything to praise in it. Really iOS is better? Yeah like Apple Maps, 64bit app compatibility is ****ing overkill, MOST DESKTOP PROGRAMS RUN IN 32 BIT, THAT SHOULD TELL YOU THAT ANGRY BIRDS DOESN'T NEED 64 BIT!!

And why did Apple make the 5c if it is laughing its way through the market right now?! Legit, you must be a troll...
 

abdel12345

Senior Member
Dec 25, 2012
5,915
1,528
I didn't know the title of this thread was iOS vs android...:sly:

But seriously people gotta stop arguing over these stupid things. Everyone has their own opinion. So let's get back on topic which is discussing android run time not anything about iOS or 64 bit or why one thing is better than another. :banghead:

Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
 

wideasleep1

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2006
1,550
526
I know plenty of people who run iOS 7 on a 4s. it runs fine.

Fine? I've seen it lag on a 5..

On a phone that came out in October 2011. You really don't want to get into the subject of what Android phones run what versions of Android..especially older Android phones.

And I gotta commend Google for designing KitKat to be compatible with older hardware... Apple is far more likely to leave you in the dust with older hardware these days. They've swapped positions on this topic. iFans will still say their older device is 'fine', but it's cognitive dissonance justification for premium prices paid.

You comment about app issues under 64 bit is just wrong and its silly to post about something you don't know anything about.

Ad hominem and pot meet kettle.


Multi-touch performance and responsiveness is still significantly better on iOS devices and ART doesn't fix that.

Wrong again. 'Significant' is a gross sycophantic overstatement by an obvious iBoi.

I can see some people don't understand the difference between a runtime app and a compiled app. Dalvik and ART are a bit of both but runtime/JIT anything will always be slower.

I can see iFanbois will constantly troll boards touting their iSuperiority despite real world usage being virtually identical for a fraction of the cost of iHardware.

Another reason Google is moving to ART is because it is obvious that Dalvik is a filched JVM from Sun and Oracle which is still causing Google legal problems.

BS. Google wants to improve performance. They could really care less about legal problems..it's part of doing business.

Pretty stunning how much Google stole from other companies which is why their legal fees, fines, and payments from Android manufacturers to companies like Microsoft are so high.
My guess is that Google is dying to just get everything on Chrome as Android has been nothing but a lawsuit nightmare for them plus they have completely lost control of it. It was really a poorly run operation all the way around which is why Andy Rubin was booted from it.

Again..BS. They supplanted iOS! They own mobile..look at the numbers. And Andy wasn't booted at all...no idea where (blog?) you got that unless all you read is iOS propaganda. Andy has always had a passion for robotics...('android', mind you) and the time was right for him to transition towards his real passion. iPropaganda might very well see that as a 'boot' to sell clicks.

From a usability perspective there is nothing in KitKat that makes an iOS device inherently better I will say that. But Google is nowhere near a 64 bit OS and new apps for iOS that take advantage of 64 bitness are far ahead of anything Android has to offer and it's just getting started.

Again BS. From a usability perspective both OS's are more similar than different, despite iHardware costing nearly double (exorbitant margins). Perhaps this is why Android has overtaken and leaving iEverything in the dust.

In tablet in particular iOS is just laughing at Android in both hardware and software which for Apple is the same thing.

No idea what you are implying here other than your iFanboi flag is clearly in the iBrainwashed camp. As if we already didn't know..

I have an N5 and Moto X and have had both iOS and Android phones from the beginning of each and know them and their internals better than most.

Well..aren't you iSpecial! Obviously iAuthority. What are you doing here? You're too good for us!

Weird how Android users are still so insecure about their choice of device.

Uh..who's on an Android forum defending their losing OS? The insecurity is plain for all to see.





Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Dxtra

Senior Member
May 27, 2010
497
40
I know plenty of people who run iOS 7 on a 4s. it runs fine. On a phone that came out in October 2011. You really don't want to get into the subject of what Android phones run what versions of Android..especially older Android phones.
You comment about app issues under 64 bit is just wrong and its silly to post about something you don't know anything about.
Multi-touch performance and responsiveness is still significantly better on iOS devices and ART doesn't fix that.
I can see some people don't understand the difference between a runtime app and a compiled app. Dalvik and ART are a bit of both but runtime/JIT anything will always be slower. Another reason Google is moving to ART is because it is obvious that Dalvik is a filched JVM from Sun and Oracle which is still causing Google legal problems. Pretty stunning how much Google stole from other companies which is why their legal fees, fines, and payments from Android manufacturers to companies like Microsoft are so high.
My guess is that Google is dying to just get everything on Chrome as Android has been nothing but a lawsuit nightmare for them plus they have completely lost control of it. It was really a poorly run operation all the way around which is why Andy Rubin was booted from it.
From a usability perspective there is nothing in KitKat that makes an iOS device inherently better I will say that. But Google is nowhere near a 64 bit OS and new apps for iOS that take advantage of 64 bitness are far ahead of anything Android has to offer and it's just getting started.
In tablet in particular iOS is just laughing at Android in both hardware and software which for Apple is the same thing.
I have an N5 and Moto X and have had both iOS and Android phones from the beginning of each and know them and their internals better than most. Weird how Android users are still so insecure about their choice of device.



---------- Post added at 01:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 AM ----------

Animations are quite a bit quicker in the latest beta and you can of course turn animations off. But I can see its important to you to assume the N5 is better. it's not and nobody serious that owns or extensively used both would say that.

This has to be joke. I bought my daughter the iPhone 5s and wife the new iPad mini and me my wife own the nexus 5 . Who u think your fooling? I must be blind I don't see that highly performance and responsiveness u see on the iPhone, when I see it stutter from time to time . The whole ios7 needs improvement. I prefer android and I respect your choice but man stop it you sound like a troll

Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
 
Last edited:

SymbioticGenius

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2012
703
178
*insert monkey wrench * I just got my parents two Nokia 925s recently. I think windows OS has made better improvements than android or iOS in the past year. It's the smoother experience of the 3. I personally have the Nexus5 and MotoX, both with art and I use an iPhone at work. If I had to give up my nexus and MotoX right now, I'd go windows phone, it's so easy to use. It might not be as capable as android, but it's smooth and the damn thing just works.

Sent from my MotoX Developer Edition
 

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  • 148
    Okay guys,

    with the introduction of 4.4 kitkat, Google decided to include ART as an optional second runtime that can be enabled through developer options. Naturally when promised faster app launch times, people will turn it on. ART is not stable however and so problems will be occur. For this reason, in hopes to prevent kernel developers, rom developers, and android developers from having their thread hijacked, I am making a thread dedicated to runtimes here. DO NOT POST ABOUT THIS TO DEVELOPERS ON THEIR THREADS, bugs when you are running ART are not their fault.


    What is Dalvik?

    Dalvik is the process virtual machine (VM) in Google's Android operating system. It is the software that runs the apps on Android devices. Dalvik is thus an integral part of Android, which is typically used on mobile devices such as mobile phones and tablet computers as well as more recently on embedded devices such as smart TVs and media streamers. Programs are commonly written in Java and compiled to bytecode. They are then converted from Java Virtual Machine-compatible .class files to Dalvik-compatible .dex (Dalvik Executable) files before installation on a device. The compact Dalvik Executable format is designed to be suitable for systems that are constrained in terms of memory and processor speed. Dalvik is open-source software.

    Dalvik is named after an Icelandic city.
    (source)

    Okay so what is ART?

    ART is a project Google has been working on for reportedly for 2 years. The goal of ART was to produce a faster runtime that wouldn't suffer from the problems Dalvik suffers. Android Kit Kat 4.4 is the first operating system with ART included in developers options although it is unclear just how recent this version is.

    ART stands for Android RunTime
    (source)

    Great, Whats the Difference Then?

    The main difference between ART and Dalvik is when they compile app code. Dalvik operates under a JIT (Just In Time) compilation method which means that when developers make their apps, they partially compile their code into bytecode which is interpreted by the java virtual machine. Dalvik converts bytecode to machinecode as the app runs to increase performance (bytecode execution is slower than machinecode execution). ART differs from Dalvik by performing this compilation of bytecode to machine code at installation of the app and saves this to the phones storage (not ram).
    (source)

    So Why Use ART?

    Using ART instead of Dalvik allows the system to use much less resources during runtime. When apps are running, interpretation of bytecode is not ongoing, this can reduce CPU load and RAM usage. The resulting effect is faster app startup times (reportedly almost twice as fast) and better in app performance.

    It should be noted that performance boosts will only really improve for the java components of apps. Apps like games which rely on the NDK or other languages will receive more incremental experience boosts.
    (source)

    Why Shouldn't I Use ART

    Well first and foremost, Google's documentation of ART suggests not using ART because it can cause app instabilities and an unstable android implementation all together. It is still largely in development and it is unknown just how recent the version included in the current kit kat build is. Google is introducing it to the development community but really doesn't intend users to use it as a daily runtime.

    Also since ART precompiles and saves that precompiled code upon installation of apps, it takes up more storage. The increase is about 10-20% of the code in the application. Remember the majority of apps usually comprises media files such as images, videos, sounds... so those components will be unaffected. For example, the Google+ apk is about 28Mb yet the code is only comprise of 7Mb. The increase in storage size is nominal, but worth noting.

    Also the first start up after enabling ART can take up to 10 minutes due to this compilation occurring. Installation of apps will also take slightly longer but with hardware on the Nexus 5 you are unlikely to even notice.

    ART also can cause issues with app backup and restoration.
    (source) (source)

    Custom Roms and ART

    As developers start building Kit Kat roms from source they will have to decide if they would like to include ART in their builds. Google has created a flag to include ART in addition to Dalvik. This is a simple implementation, but if threads keep getting hijacked by discussions of ART and bugs, I wouldn't be surprised if developers choose to exclude ART from their builds.

    ART also cannot function with deodexed apps. The odex files are necessary for bytecode to machine code compilation. Flashing a deodexed ROM or gaps with ART enabled will produce force closes and crashes to the point the UI won't be functional.

    Also initial setup between Roms will take longer with ART since performing a factory reset as well as clearing caches will clear the stored precompiled code that ART saves. Dalvik will always be enabled at start up, so switching to ART will require a reboot and a wait for set up.
    (source)



    In my synopsis of ART and Dalvik I may have made a mistake or two or not explained something properly. If you spot a mistake or would like clarification, simply post and I will modify the OP.

    Please, please, please send people to this thread if they are asking about runtimes in a developers thread. Having had my kernel thread hijacked by unrelated issues that are outside of my control, I understand the pain.
    9
    That's true for an indie developer, but what about for something that's as big as whatsapp? I do sort of understand tibu, but whatsapp has no excuse.

    They certainly have every excuse you can think of. Starting from the fact this is a brand new highly experimental feature only released a week ago and well hidden inside the developer(!) options.
    The fact that they're a commercial company and not indie development even more encourages them to focus on the average user and certainly not on a couple geeks with a stick in their *** inside a nerd forum who love experimenting with some newly released stuff and demand from them to play along.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    8
    I'm using ART on my Nexus 4 with SlimRom and there is huge difference. The screen is brighter and more vibrant it seems. Almost embarrassing because I think it looks better than my LG G2 with the same theme. And G2 has a great screen. The Nexus is also noticeably faster. Haven't had it in this mode long enough to report on battery life plus I'm running 4G anyway.

    when i converted to art, my phone started granting me magic wishes
    7
    ART breaks Titanium Backup, just fyi

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    7
    Switching back to ART to see if 4.4.1 has fixed the Facebook upload picture issue and will update my post shortly.

    Facebook picture uploads work ok and the latest version of whatapp launches with no issues now.
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