[Discussion] SAYGUS V2

[t3chfan]

FWIW I don't think Saygus has any nefarious or cynical motive, I just think they are a bunch of amateurs who went into something naively with the best of intentions, now find themselves up to their neck in s**t and are trying to bury their head in the sand hoping, just hoping that their Shenzen partners can build what they want, to the quality that they want.

I know I've banged this drum before, but spend 15 minutes reading about the Kreyos Meteor smart watch debacle - the problem is, unless you are big enough to have your own manufacturing plants you are reliant on outsourcing this aspect, and leave yourself to be very very exposed to sometimes less than honest and transparent 'partners'.

However this does not excuse the lack or transparency to the customers, but do you really, really want to know that Saygus still has not built a single working device that has the specifications and features that they advertise. Because, if I was a betting man (and I'm not, which is why I got my pre-order refunded!) I would suggest that this is exactly the current situation.

 

[pah2602]

FWIW I don't think Saygus has any nefarious or cynical motive, I just think they are a bunch of amateurs who went into something naively with the best of intentions, now find themselves up to their neck in s**t and are trying to bury their head in the sand hoping, just hoping that their Shenzen partners can build what they want, to the quality that they want.

I know I've banged this drum before, but spend 15 minutes reading about the Kreyos Meteor smart watch debacle - the problem is, unless you are big enough to have your own manufacturing plants you are reliant on outsourcing this aspect, and leave yourself to be very very exposed to sometimes less than honest and transparent 'partners'.

However this does not excuse the lack or transparency to the customers, but do you really, really want to know that Saygus still has not built a single working device that has the specifications and features that they advertise. Because, if I was a betting man (and I'm not, which is why I got my pre-order refunded!) I would suggest that this is exactly the current situation.

The most balanced post here to date.

This is what I believe also. A lot of paranoia here about scams with little substance.

All in all a poor effort from the company. I'm preoccupied with exams until 12th June. That's as long as I'm willing to give Saygus.

 

[Zack.TheDark]

So if this phone is waterproof, and you download an app that vibrates at predefined frequencies, wouldn't this be a nice toy? Sorry, I just want to change topic.. Bad vibes at xda.

 

[waterplanet]

If they are honest, its very easy for them to prove so. They just have to ship one of the nearly finished prototypes they claim to have to an independent 3rd party, for instance The Verge or Android Authority, and ask them to verify that the prototype works close to the specs.

They have claimed on twitter that they will do this, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[xtermmin]

The reason behind the delays is so obvious now:
It's taking Saygus longer than anticipated to transfer everyone's pre-order money to an offshore account!
The week+ "vacation" that Chad and the other Saygus higher-ups are on? They've already fled the country!

 

[Omegaclawe]

This is what I think is their motivation:

1. Create some prototypes and a spec of an amazing product that they promise to deliver at a date in the future, and offer prepaid preorders with some benefits.

2. Invest the money from the preorders in something. Hopefully low risk, like a high interest bank account.

3. Wait until the promised delivery date, while trying to make the customers believe that they are actually working on the product in the meantime.

4. When the customers wants refund, they pay back the exact amount they paid, but they keep the interest from the investment, so that they earn a small amount of money for each customer. If there are many customers this can add up to a considerable amount, making a scam like this profitable.

5. As long as there are enough preorders left, they will probably go on and on with new lies, excuses and claims that they will deliver this product in the future. When there are to few preorders left they will probably claim that they are unable to deliver the product because of some issues they ran into, they will (hopefully) pay the few people left back their money, and the project is over.


So I will strongly recommend anyone that preordered to request a refund as soon as possible. If you still believe this V^2 (Vaporware-Squared?) will ever be released, there is no reason you cannot buy it later, after its released.

There are a few big flaws with this plan: The first is the return on investment. Lets say they find some crazy savings account that offers then 2% APY and lets them withdraw whenever they want (good luck...), after six months of leading us on, they would gain less than six dollars per pre-order. Lets say they have as few as six employees, and none of them intend to make more than $30,000 off of this. In this case, they would need 30,000 pre-orders that last the entire six months to meet this goal, and that's not including hosting, payment processing, keeping the lights on, etc. It simply does not pay the bills.

Meanwhile, the cost per phone is probably less than $300. If they make more than $250 per phone selling them, they do much, much better, and establish some longer-term income. Much better strategy, honestly.

If this IS a scam, they need to keep as many people's pre-order money as possible for when they go "bankrupt". In this case, they would likely make refunds more difficult to get... consider that when they refund you in full from a credit-card type purchase, they lose some money due to the payment processor. Probably higher than that 1% or so they might make off of a high-interest account. Also, in that case, the May 22nd date would have been almost ideal for declaring bankruptcy, considering they are unable (and otherwise unlikely) to collect more orders prior to the actual ship date of the device.

As a business, at this point, actually fulfilling our orders seems like the most profitable course of action... which is not to say that we'll get exactly what was promised... but here's hoping.

 

[vertigo_2_20]

This is what I think is their motivation:

1. Create some prototypes and a spec of an amazing product that they promise to deliver at a date in the future, and offer prepaid preorders with some benefits.

2. Invest the money from the preorders in something. Hopefully low risk, like a high interest bank account.

3. Wait until the promised delivery date, while trying to make the customers believe that they are actually working on the product in the meantime.

4. When the customers wants refund, they pay back the exact amount they paid, but they keep the interest from the investment, so that they earn a small amount of money for each customer. If there are many customers this can add up to a considerable amount, making a scam like this profitable.

5. As long as there are enough preorders left, they will probably go on and on with new lies, excuses and claims that they will deliver this product in the future. When there are to few preorders left they will probably claim that they are unable to deliver the product because of some issues they ran into, they will (hopefully) pay the few people left back their money, and the project is over.


So I will strongly recommend anyone that preordered to request a refund as soon as possible. If you still believe this V^2 (Vaporware-Squared?) will ever be released, there is no reason you cannot buy it later, after its released.

I guess you missed my earlier post about this, you might want to take a look and see that the interest idea is very unlikely.

 

[enzo ferraro]

For The Record

I have been extremely skeptical about this entire project, and have attempted to make my feelings known on this forum.

I fell in love with the phone when I first read of it early in the year, and paid $549 on Feb 3 in hopes of getting my hands on it soon, but that hope faded in the following weeks and months, and early last week I asked Saygus for a refund. I was very unsure they had any cash left at this late date, but they sent me an email saying they had handed off my request to their credit card outfit.

I just learned that my credit card company received $549 on Sunday, and credited it to my account. I wanted to let everybody
know, once again, "just for the record."

I intend to follow this project, and if the phone eventually gets produced and performs at or near its intended goals, I'll probably purchase one because it seems to have all the specs I'm very interested in having in a single device.

As with everyone else on this forum, I'm still hoping for the very best.

 

[Freaky Beanie]

I have been extremely skeptical about this entire project, and have attempted to make my feelings known on this forum.

I fell in love with the phone when I first read of it early in the year, and paid $549 on Feb 3 in hopes of getting my hands on it soon, but that hope faded in the following weeks and months, and early last week I asked Saygus for a refund. I was very unsure they had any cash left at this late date, but they sent me an email saying they had handed off my request to their credit card outfit.

I just learned that my credit card company received $549 on Sunday, and credited it to my account. I wanted to let everybody
know, once again, "just for the record."

I intend to follow this project, and if the phone eventually gets produced and performs at or near its intended goals, I'll probably purchase one because it seems to have all the specs I'm very interested in having in a single device.

As with everyone else on this forum, I'm still hoping for the very best.

Glad to hear that you have received your refund

 

[Zinguy]

That was a nice catch on the old poster. Consider investigative reporting as a career. Sifting through seemingly irrelevant information and piecing them together for a clearer picture of the Saygus trainwreck.
My conspiracy theory is mass gross incompetence. This evidence of still another rebranding effort in the early stages is just more confirmation. Normal path to market : Idea. > Plan.> Execution of plan.> Correction/fine tuning.>Marketing> Sale.
Saygus path: Idea.> Marketing.> Hype.> More Hype.> Fail. >More Hype.> Fail. > More Hype.> Crickets

 

[aspid667]

To those, who have doubts about possibility to use preorder money to make more money I can say only this - MTN, SBLC and BG.

 

[halkhali83]

Saygus History?

After I checked Saygus office on Google (2010 images), I found it has more than 10 rooms and also seems to have not less than 25 employees.
I'm currently having questions to a business expert:
- How Saygus was able to manage paying those employees salaries and the rent of this well-furnished suite?
I remember when I checked Saygus website by the end of last year, I could not found any business or product, nor any software or project to sell on website. It was almost news page mentioning different stories.
- Did Saygus have any revenue along these years? from what?

 

[alexanseris]

After I checked Saygus office on Google (2010 images), I found it has more than 10 rooms and also seems to have not less than 25 employees.
I'm currently having questions to a business expert:
- How Saygus was able to manage paying those employees salaries and the rent of this well-furnished suite?
I remember when I checked Saygus website by the end of last year, I could not found any business or product, nor any software or project to sell on website. It was almost news page mentioning different stories.
- Did Saygus have any revenue along these years? from what?

An excellent question!
But unfortunately, I don't have the answer

 

[Cullenator]

Waiting for a refund

I have been extremely skeptical about this entire project, and have attempted to make my feelings known on this forum.

I fell in love with the phone when I first read of it early in the year, and paid $549 on Feb 3 in hopes of getting my hands on it soon, but that hope faded in the following weeks and months, and early last week I asked Saygus for a refund. I was very unsure they had any cash left at this late date, but they sent me an email saying they had handed off my request to their credit card outfit.

I just learned that my credit card company received $549 on Sunday, and credited it to my account. I wanted to let everybody
know, once again, "just for the record."

I intend to follow this project, and if the phone eventually gets produced and performs at or near its intended goals, I'll probably purchase one because it seems to have all the specs I'm very interested in having in a single device.

As with everyone else on this forum, I'm still hoping for the very best.

Glad to hear you got your refund. I'm still waiting for mine.

I contacted his excellency Samuel Rhodes yesterday, and he was actually surprisingly helpful in opening a follow-up ticket for my original refund ticket. I imagine he's had a lot of practice with that by now? Anyway, if it's helpful at all, here's my refund status so far, for those wondering about the process:

1. I opened a ticket 6 days ago for a refund,
2. I added a comment to the ticket 3 days ago explaining that I was still waiting for a response and would have to initiate chargeback if I didn't hear anything soon.
3. I talked to Samuel Rhodes yesterday about the ticket, and he opened a second follow-up ticket for me.

It's not a painless process, but it's not a complete disaster (for me or Saygus) yet. I remain hopeful that it won't become one.

And good luck to the brave souls who remain on the Saygus train, although obviously I wouldn't advise it.

 

[bob90210]

After I checked Saygus office on Google (2010 images), I found it has more than 10 rooms and also seems to have not less than 25 employees.
I'm currently having questions to a business expert:
- How Saygus was able to manage paying those employees salaries and the rent of this well-furnished suite?
I remember when I checked Saygus website by the end of last year, I could not found any business or product, nor any software or project to sell on website. It was almost news page mentioning different stories.
- Did Saygus have any revenue along these years? from what?

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1555400/000155540012000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml

 

[theleftykid]

They bloody invested the money to another company for a 30% equity. Now they are waiting to have their share back before paying the factory in China to start manufucturing the phone. Sadly, the company where they invest our money went on bankrupt and now they have trouble giving us a refund. 4 days now and still I have not heard from them about my request for a refund.

 

[Cullenator]

They bloody invested the money to another company for a 30% equity. Now they are waiting to have their share back before paying the factory in China to start manufucturing the phone. Sadly, the company where they invest our money went on bankrupt and now they have trouble giving us a refund. 4 days now and still I have not heard from them about my request for a refund.

Um... That's a pretty specific claim, do you have a source or other reason to believe that?

Considering the last 3 days were part of a long weekend for the US, I'd say you don't have to get worried yet. Did you see this post? Looks like @enzo ferraro got his refund 2 days ago: http://forum.xda-developers.com/say...-one-maybe-t2996443/post60972637#post60972637

 

[halkhali83]

Could you please write a summary for this report?
I apologize. I am not a business or financial expert and it was hard for me to understand it.
Thank you.

 

[JabbaMac]

That sec report is from 2012, and it just states how they were trying to raise $8M in investments by selling shares of their company. Chad has mentioned their "investors" before...these are they. Or those are they? They are those? Whatever. Why don't you nervous Nelly's all just get a refund and leave. These conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

 

[TonyStark]

Alright then.

I was thinking of getting my refund and decided to take my own advice and contact Saygus through the # I posted above.

I spoke with Mindy. She of course took my info and asked me some questions. She read back to me "xxxxxxxxx.XDA" Yes..

Once again she reiterated "xxxxxxxxx.XDA". I said yes again...

She asked me to hold, when a man came on and said Hello this is Chad Sayers

Chad was extremely pleased to hear from me and even better that I was a part of XDA.

After some formalities, which included his thanks to all that have supported Saygus from XDA, he went on to explain some of the issues they had, and what they are working on.

One of the company's looking to supply parts was Sharp. Over time, there camera failed to work with the system. Sharp later resolved this issue (or so they thought.) Sharp also made the promise to Saygus to build these for the March release date. Sharp had issues with assembly and layout which caused the first delay. Saygus ended up using a second source (for camera) which had assured Saygus this change would offer a May delivery.

During the last few days of assembly (with devices ready to pack) they ran into further issues in Q&A (once again) with the back camera and connection interference. This lead to finding a better suited facility to finish the task of assembly.

All the components are aligned (this was a brushed over statement)

Chad says the phones are in the process silly. He had to take a call but not before I stopped him and gave him my number. I asked him to call me from one of the V2s. He agreed to do this later today or tomorrow. This call will be put on YT of which (hopefully) I will confirm.

The funny thing regarding the "call me" part was, him saying "yeah having a video showing that it can make calls is a good idea":laugh:

I will now wait to see if he replies



BTW I never did get to ask for my refund

UPDATE Chad did not return call. Gave it an additional 3 days and then canceled order. At this point I feel there is to much smoke and mirrors. I can appreciate delays and the complications they face. I have issue with "the greatest technology found in any smart phone" still being a fact.

When I did call to cancel, Mindy once again took my call. At the end of our conversation, she offered a possible delivery date of mid July to mid August.

Good luck to all of whom hold out.