General Game Optimizing Service / "App-Performance-Limitter" on S22 Ultra?

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velqn

Senior Member
Nov 15, 2007
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135
Yeees!!!!

Got it as well, will test and report tomorrow!

Screenshot_20220313-021859_Software update.jpg
 

velqn

Senior Member
Nov 15, 2007
160
135
@Hudrator

I am done testing - still need to put up a video, but here the results.

gos1.JPG


gos2.JPG


gos3.JPG


gos4.JPG


gos5.JPG


So... honestly, no significant gains. Higher values (pink line) is official GOS OFF. Lower values, green lines official GOS ON.

Samsung mentioned in the change log no limit on CPU/GPU performance during early stages of gameplay but honestly I was able to confirm that only for some of the CPU cores that really reached 2200 Mhz (something I was not getting even with full GOS OFF prior the update - I was getting CPU clocks max 1750 Mhz).

Sadly the GPU clock averages to 350Mhz - it was able to peak even more than 500 Mhz but it maintains 303Mhz-404Mhz so ...

Honestly it`s not worth it messing up with this, thermal management still will apply Samsung saying maintain a performance management feature based on device temperature.

So that`s it for now.

And all in one:

New Microsoft PowerPoint Presentation.jpg


Let me know what you think, for me it`s clear - no worth messing up. If one accepts the risks with excessive heating better go for unofficial method, else this just doesnt bring much gain.
 
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Hudrator

Senior Member
This is without GOS disabled. Seems they optimized the system even more.
Do you have any indication about the used resolution for the benchmarks?

One of the more or less intresting aspects are in my opinion the rendering resolutions which seemed to be worked on...

@velqn
Awsomework thanks for shareing.
I have to admit, that i am currently a bit unsure how GOS works together with the newly introduced "alternate game performance management mode"...
Another topic of interest are the resolutions the games are runnig at. As seen in many videos, the rendering resoultions while using gos seem to be.... kind of odd. Not even HD.

May i ask what was happening during your tests between 0:30 and 1:00 ?
These "gaps" will have some impact on the "average" calculations. I guess that was a loading screen?
Espeically vor AVG FPS , AVG GPU Clock.

Maybe you can use the same tooling as in your last video to see the completete picture regarding the CPU and the different CPU Clusters?
 

velqn

Senior Member
Nov 15, 2007
160
135
@Hudrator

I finished editing my video - processing & uploading - I want to explain a bit more - specifically on this fake frames, or people call them "inter frames" but I believe there is more into this much like the Natural HD Motion used in Phillips TV sets...

Yes, I am used both perfdog and the gpuwatch, will share when it`s done. Between these I think I was in genshin settings menu, in the video I have synched both videos so that you can see in real time synchronized what is happening when.

In a nutshell, what I think: will Samsung ever allow the regular end users to mess up with thermal management, CPU governors and CPU/GPU clocks, like a regular overclocking tool we use to see on desktops? No.

Is this acceptable that you can get stable FPS in a 1300 EUR phone - No.

But I understand Samsung - they will limit this as much as they can - avoiding users killing their phones and invoking warranties - the only real solution to that would be rooted phones, custom kernels and serious mods that will empower the user to fine tune clocks, bypass thermal protection as much as a user can but this will of course not save from throttling.

When it gets hot, it get`s hot, like in the Heat movie where De Niro said "Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat, if you feel the heat around the corner."

:))
 

Hudrator

Senior Member
In a nutshell, what I think: will Samsung ever allow the regular end users to mess up with thermal management, CPU governors and CPU/GPU clocks, like a regular overclocking tool we use to see on desktops? No.

hehe well we aren't at that point yet i guess... the overall concern seems to be the heat-management. And thats where i think it gets tricky. Normally the OS should be able to handle all of this. It seems to me that samsung tried to lower the targeted max. heat point to something which is lower then the normal OS would do.
Which should normally be the "safe" point which the device can handle. Sammys approach seems to target something like a "compfort"-related thing - so the user won't find the device "too hot"... which is to some degree understandable. But the way to achieve and advertise this seems odd or not well balanced with the claim of overall "performance".
 
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eaoosa

Senior Member
Aug 19, 2018
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The update will definitely improve performance at the cost of "comfort" aka heat and battery life. But there's just only so much GOS update can improve on when the heat profile of the actual physical cpu/gpu chips are what needs the most improving. For that, we'll have to wait till the next iteration of these chips. Cpus are improving yearly but at the cost of higher heat profile. Luckily for me, most games run fine with GOS. For those that need it, there's also physical cooler attachments available. Either way, good to see Samsung addressing this.
 
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Hudrator

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@velqn
Well looking at the Video, as well as the one of "Golden Reviewer" there seems to be something really off again...

I still have the feeling that there is something going on in terms of resolution of the game itself. We have with GOS Off
- significant higher overall powerconsumption
- higher CPU clocks with a lot more of variation
- to a certain degree higher GPU clocks - even for just 1 Minute in the beginning (afterwards is looks nearly identically to GOS = ON), Allowing higher Clocks (Bursts?) instead of limited longer "Peak" times in GOS=On

But getting similar results as with GOS = On regarding FPS.
So basically there has been more work done (CPU) and you see nearly no benefits overall...

What can cause this?
From my point of view:
Changeing the amount of data that acutally needs to be processed --> Resolution change? But this shouldn't result in much higher CPU load but GPU load instead... Or the GPU is still so limited that the processing would need to be done via the CPU which is... highly ineffective.
Any thought on how this can be logially together?

Besides the overall gameing performance, it would be nice to see how the Phone actually performs with non-Game Apps which might be a little bit more demanding.
Could guess some Adobe oder Videoediting stuff could work here - especially if thinks are rendered on device.
 
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  • 8
    I am really amused to see so much discussion on this here on XDA and social media as well. For 98% of the folks, as long as your phone runs smooth and gives you an all day battery life, enjoy it. Many app developers are also not saints. They may leak data and bloat code etc so OEMs need to take the matter in their hands. For avid gamers, they should probably get a gaming machine and use phones only for casual gaming. With current tech limits, gaming on phones will necessitate some tweaks to optimize performance. Apple is polished because it simply stops everything else in the background and focuses ONLY on 1 task on the foreground. And iPhones also do heat up after sometime while gaming.
    It's really not the OEM's place to "take matter into their own hands". Don't push your use case on everyone else. Samsung does not know my user case, just like Apple does not know my use case, just like YOU don't know my use case. People bought this (and other, like the OP9) phone partially due to benchmark scores that should translate into performance metrics for their use case. When that's not the case, then they should be mad they got a paperweight. Check out the GOS enabled geekscore, it's basically a GS10. Why should users be happy they got a smooth UI experience when the things they actually want to do on a phone is gimped?

    Your sentiment on a gaming machine... are you serious? This phone costs more than an actual mid-upper tier gaming PC. Some people like to play games on their phones, and some games are mobile only.

    Again, optimizing by itself is not necessarily a bad thing. They just need to make it an opt-in experience, explain what it does clearly, let the users choose which apps to "optimize", and start letting people use their hardware like their own.
    6
    Maybe instead of panicking and basing decisions on headlines and mob mentality you think about the reasons why this might have been done to start with?

    Most of if not all of these apps will be very poorly optimised in general but especially for the hardware in the S22 series of devices - this means that left unchecked they will use more resources than they really need to, warming up the devices causing thermal throttling to kick in and draining the battery fast (as well as possibly reducing the lifespan of certain components).

    This APK keeps these things in check, but for games where you really need more performance you can use gamebooster to switch to performance mode and recovery virtually all the lost power (if not all of it) - making it your choice to sacrifice heat and battery life for performance when you need it, not all the time.
    5
    @velqn
    First let me thank you for your effort - to be frankly speeking: I am a bit puzzeled.

    as far as i see even with GOS = Off the X2 core seems to be limited to some degree, capping it at 1728MHz. We litteraly see no peaks above that value. Which can of course be due to the scheduling of the OS and taking into account the charts ARM presented could be resonable when thinking of efficeny. Strangely the same seems to apply to the other clusters as well. - 1728MHz. Just to remember - these cores are advertised to run with a max of 2.8 / 2.5 / 1.8 GHz. And we are seeing kind of hard breaks at 2/3 of the clockspeeds.
    Other apps or benchmarks as reference would be helpful. I can only guess that from a CPU side of things this is applied to keep the Cores in the most efficient clockspeedrange, trying to avoid to get into the "expensive" areas in reagrds of performance / energy ratio.
    Personally speaking i have some doubts that this is the best approach or "way of" scheduling. But at least it is simple :p

    Also the GPU seems to have a max. at 500MHz... which would be quiet low to the competition and as written before way lower then all expectations. and noticeably it runs on max nearly all the time which is not the case for GOS ON.
    So the question occurring: What is happening beside GPU / CPU clockspeed adjustment.
    I mean your tests shows cleary that the CPU clockspeeds as well as the GPU speeds are lower. MUCH lower. While delivering the same fps.
    The only explanation i have in mind at the moment could be a change in rendering resolution, which is done automatically or other changes that are related to graphic settings.

    Your thoughts?

    Very well said! Honestly I am a bit puzzled and lightly frustrated as I have been doing this GOS on/off test since the Note 20 Ultra/S21 and now with the S22U all strictly Exynos units. Exynos 2100 at the end after many updates was more or less stabilized to a point where even in my 1 hour torture throttle test it behaved more steadily then the Exynos 2200 - but this is the typical Samsung story - they release the latest gen and it takes so much months and updates to make it OK to a point where they need to release the next SoC and series.

    So that`s a bit frustrating - going with the latest phone & SoC will get you a minor increase if even no increase at all. But let`s say we are used on Sammy doing that. Now with the Exynos 2200 and the Xclipse 920 things were supposed to be different - or at least were market differently - remember the Exynos 2200 launch - gaming revolution, new era, the AMD GPU and the RDNA v2 with the huge potential of hardware RTX ray tracing and the VRS variable rate shading... and when it launched it was quickly discovered that the Adreno 730 was 30-40% faster than the Xclipse... but then drivers were blamed...

    Now back on the question What is happening beside GPU / CPU clockspeed adjustment.

    There were some posts back here pointing to a KR forum where a bit more insight has been provided on how the latest GOS works - what was covered in Max`s W. tweet in an android police article also touch based on the things discovered on this KR forum:

    It's also not your usual throttling. So far as Android Police's Max Weinbach can tell digging into some of the code that appears to control it, it's incredibly sophisticated, balancing multiple parameters like temperature, expected battery level at different times, CPU speed, and predicted FPS benefits when determining what sorts of resources a given game gets. This tuning likely varies from app to app and game to game, so the benchmark numbers you see reported here and elsewhere may not be accurate to all circumstances.

    Also when this issue unraveled Samsung said the following:

    Our priority is to deliver the best mobile experience for consumers. We value the feedback we receive about our products and after careful consideration, we plan to roll out a software update soon so users can control the performance while running game apps,”

    and

    “The Game Optimizing Service (GOS) has been designed to help game apps achieve a great performance while managing device temperature effectively. GOS does not manage the performance of non-gaming apps,”
    So I am now even more puzzled - it seems that when GOS is on some heavy acrobatics are performed in the background - and that actually might not be bad if it`s done in a controlled way and if the user has the option to opt -in/out.

    Now the issue with that is the following - it`s just so scattered. What do I have in my mind:
    1. First there is the GOS - it has a priority mode
    2. Then there is the Game Plugins with Priority and Game Booster Plus mode
    3. Then there is the Thermal Guardian part of Good Guardians where you can adjust temp setting with -/+ 2 degrees °C
    4. Then we have the enhanced/balanced/maximum processing settings via Device Care / Battery

    So what takes precedence? When you enable Game Booster Plus you get some messages that some of the other modes might not work as expected so it`s probably a good start - but it seems to me like many dev teams works in silo mode - working on the same components or part of them - not necessarily sharing knowledge.

    So besides the GPU/CPU clockspeed does Samsung rely on changing CPU governors parameters, i.e. did they implement a smart overclock in real time based on some parameters readings? Is that effective at all?

    Samsung are pushing more & more for that sustained performance and when I was testing the day 0 updated and the March AVBF update it seems that they sacrificed a bit of the peak performance to get more sustained performance over time.

    If you want to jag up your phone and get the best of it probably that wont work. Samsung say they will issue a software update to allow us to control the performance while running game apps but all of this somehow happens even now.

    What I think they can do be a bit more transparent and they tried to do so -but it all seems like gimmicks, e.g. the Game Booster Plus will give you options to go for MAX FPS or MAX quality or performance, and you can change/tweak this settings individually for all games. And then we come to the Geekbench controversy - them deciding to delist Samsung as ti seems that they do not affect benchmarks with their "clever" or "not so clever" overclocking capabilities.

    The solution might be again something related with transparency - keep this clever algorithms to measure 1000 things and decide what`s best for you, so that you are not unhappy when playing but you still have some battery at the end and you phone doesnt burn your hands...

    and give the user the option to switch all of that - but natively from the system. What`s the point of making GOS as a system apps and getting the users to find alternative ways to mess up with this - just make this as a standard option.

    Combine all the power management + performance management settings in a single dashboard so that they are not scattered all over the places... that would be a good start.
    4
    @velqn
    Nicely summerized.

    Regarding the xclipse features like raytracing and so on: I guess this would be benefits which will depend on the game devs. So given that after some major changes from Exynos 990 to 2200 guess it would be time for a baseline which developers might rely on. Also some invests from Samsung might be usefull to get things like genshin / PUPG to really make use of this or advertise this as "samsung exclusive". As long as other vendors are not jumping on this wagon i guess these features will "idle" around... At least i can't see real benefit at the current situation.
    Which getting me to the other point:
    Whats the benefit of all this GOS.

    Basically we are seeing a huge amount of effort taken to optimize the experience of the device.
    How ever: Looking on the big picture - Are other devices performing significantly worse? Or Samsung significantly better?
    At the moment i would say "no". Not want to be "ungreatful" to samsung, but as they told us: This is only for gameing (we will see how things turn out for this).
    So basically all the other functions won't benefit from all this complex optimization process. Once again i am not sure if this kind of optimization is really effectiv... As far as i read, ARM has spend some good time into think and optimize for example the scheduler / govenors for the big.LITTLE architecture. Not speaking of the de-clustrized approach.
    Working with "static" caps and baselines seems to waste a lot of theses efforts. Also your tests and some others have shown that, depending on the usecase, a good portion of ressources won't be used likely. Which is a shame in many ways.

    Another aspect is the impact on the industry: We have to keep in mind das samsung has a mighty tooling with GOS to push certain apps (and vice versa). Also, from an App developers point of view, developing for samsung phones is kind of a hit and miss, as you can't rely on anything. If sammy things, settings aren't suiting "theire" overall theme, they can easily change it and developer efforts are ... well thrown in the bin.

    As for the geekbench topic: Seems to me that the Android-OEMs are in a kind of deadlock. You need the higher benches to justify the new generations and prices (not to mention the comparison to apple) but you can't really get the performance on the track (or maybe just for a really short amount of time). Also the years of HW unification are now showing there negative effects.
    The only real solution, to build / develop / produce highly custumized SoCs, died along with Moongoose - at least for Samsung.

    Seeing all this makes me think, that samsung might just introduce a more performance oriented mode for GOS... Which is at least something but... even if it is still disappointing.
    4
    Here's a link to my thread, i debloat Samsung firmware including GOS (Game Optimizing Service) for the best performance and battery.