General Game Optimizing Service / "App-Performance-Limitter" on S22 Ultra?

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velqn

Senior Member
Nov 15, 2007
160
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It`s really an interesting situation... Samsung hyped the Xclipse 920 so much and the fact that is uses AMD RDNA v2 did sound very appealing at start at least.

But I just checked - on https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/rdna-2 - when you search for Samsung or Xclipse 920 there is... nothing.

In general RDNA v2 was considering ground breaking for PC gaming and etc, advertised as
Generational Performance Per Watt Uplifts leading to 65% more perf/watt over RDNA

But then of course this is different then putting this in smaller form factor. Here one guy is commenting:

RDNA 2 tech is great, but it's a tech meant for PCs and does not behave well at low clock rates. Samsung originally tested the GPU at higher clock rates where it was able to trounce pretty much all competition (except for Apple).
But the sacrifices they made for the actual production chip were too great for it to be competetive against Qualcomm's offering (let alone Apple's). Sub 600MHz is way too slow for RDNA 2.


And I really start to believe this is the case at least right now. I still do not know what the heck is the official GPU clock for Xclipse 920? Samsung never mentioned that.

But we can see with/without GOS that it`s 300Mhz-600Mhz. In the same time Samsung hyped everybody set a launch, then delayed it but in general:

“Built on the most advanced 4-nanometer (nm) EUV (extreme ultraviolet lithography) process, and combined with cutting-edge mobile, GPU and NPU technology, Samsung has crafted the Exynos 2200 to provide the finest experience for smartphone users. With the Xclipse, our new mobile GPU built with RDNA 2 graphics technology from the industry leader AMD, the Exynos 2200 will redefine mobile gaming experience, aided by enhanced graphics and AI performance,” said Yongin Park, President of System LSI Business at Samsung Electronics. “As well as bringing the best mobile experience to the users, Samsung will continue its efforts to lead the journey in logic chip innovation.”

So where exactly and how exactly is mobile gaming being redefined? This still some how eludes. In stead they get dragged in the GOS scandal, and I get why the users are disappointed. Samsung could have been more transparent about how they do this balance and still give some options to the users. Now I am far away from even remotely thinking that they will allow unprecedented control that you can get with root + custom kernels + some serious mods - and I understand Samsung too - they dont want to end up with more users invoking warranties.

But it seems that the benefits of turning GOS off and hitting high CPU cores doesnt have a big impact on Genshin. Now everybody puts Samsung in the spotlight but what about Genshin developer? Did they do anything to optimize their game for the new SoC?

Should Samsung have not approached them and work together with them to ensure a proper & smoother start as Samsung probably knows that Genshin has a high visibility?

I believe that Samsung should be driving this, but it seems they did not. They could have worked with the dev and really optimized it somehow even if needed pay the dev for doing this.

Right now Samsung is being totally reactive, and that would not have happened if they were on top. It`s not a win win situation anymore.

I dont think all the hate is justified but I absolutely think it`s not OK to pay 1300 EUR and ... get this even for one game but provided that this game has such a visibility.

But we need to be realistic. This is Android and it has been plagued with forks and versions and devices and fragmentation since forever. In the early days I remember Jordan Rudess the keyboardist from Dream Theater who has some crazy music apps (synths and etc) did not want to release more versions for Android because of Audio Latency (delay) been such a big issue with Android - practically preventing musicians to use live virtual synths on stage due to that.

iPhone & iOS never had that issue for obvious reasons. And sadly after 10 years, Samsung and Android phones will never be iPhones and the valid is true as well!

So one need to think of what can be sacrificed and what not - and make a buying decision. I love Android and though I used many iPhones I am sticking with Android. The freedom of Android + the unlimited apps and things you can do versus the best video recording in a phone + overall best fluidity...

Let`s hope one day it all works better but it this particular example Samsung could have worked with the Genshin dev to fix things upfront. But that ship has sailed now... :)
 

Hudrator

Senior Member
But it seems that the benefits of turning GOS off and hitting high CPU cores doesnt have a big impact on Genshin. Now everybody puts Samsung in the spotlight but what about Genshin developer? Did they do anything to optimize their game for the new SoC?

Well that's the big question that up till now nowbody can argure - as you said: One can see that there is a lot more CPU Ressources used / higher battery drain / higher temperatures.
But why or where does it go?
Given that Genshin runs with identical settings there it is now explanation where all this performance goes to. Or we are facing the worst case scenario: The SoC is completey insanely inefficient as soon as you are leaving the caps for clockspeeds of GOS.
how ever: i am still even more puzzeled then before as the behaviour now is even more non logic :-(

i took a screen of your video - hope its okay for you that i am using it here
diagramm.png


For me the interesting thing is, why we see such different usage of CPU while achieving basically the same results. I can't believe that this is all fpr the sake of 5Fps difference between gos on and off...
 
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velqn

Senior Member
Nov 15, 2007
160
135
There is the other hypothesis - the game just isnt not optimized well for Android and for Exynos specific core configuration? People reporting that it work just fine on 870 (maintains 50 fps) but who knows. Or It could be also that this additional cpu power is just used for the fake frames like you say.
 

Hudrator

Senior Member
@velqn
The thesis regading optimization is a possibility - but i would quite surprised if this would also be true for SD8Gen1 devices as well.
I found some remarks in korean forums, that after the update GOS could be disabled completly via ADB. Might be interesting to see if there would be changes between "off" and "deactivated"...
 
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p40403

Senior Member
Feb 20, 2012
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Well that's the big question that up till now nowbody can argure - as you said: One can see that there is a lot more CPU Ressources used / higher battery drain / higher temperatures.
But why or where does it go?
Given that Genshin runs with identical settings there it is now explanation where all this performance goes to. Or we are facing the worst case scenario: The SoC is completey insanely inefficient as soon as you are leaving the caps for clockspeeds of GOS.
how ever: i am still even more puzzeled then before as the behaviour now is even more non logic :-(

i took a screen of your video - hope its okay for you that i am using it here
View attachment 5560135

For me the interesting thing is, why we see such different usage of CPU while achieving basically the same results. I can't believe that this is all fpr the sake of 5Fps difference between gos on and off...
Because the game optimization of Genshin is not very good, no matter your GPU is good or not, he will always only use CPU
 

p40403

Senior Member
Feb 20, 2012
94
34
There is the other hypothesis - the game just isnt not optimized well for Android and for Exynos specific core configuration? People reporting that it work just fine on 870 (maintains 50 fps) but who knows. Or It could be also that this additional cpu power is just used for the fake frames like you say.
There is no "real" good on the 870, most mobile phones in China seem to have a high FPS but are actually sneakily reducing the resolution
Unlike Samsung, which has GPUWATCH that can be checked at any time, these devices in China must use perfdog to accurately monitor the game resolution. This software is billed by the minute, and no ordinary consumer will buy it.
A well-optimized game should use a lot more GPU than the CPU. The game of this company is not optimized well. If you want a better genshin experience, just use the computer to play it, and you don't have to worry about it.
Even if the iPhone 13 pro max is played for more than ten minutes, additional cooling equipment is required
 
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Hudrator

Senior Member
most mobile phones in China seem to have a high FPS but are actually sneakily reducing the resolution
Which is an intresting point. What would be the "normal" resolution that this is rendered on? there have been many videos around showing different rendering resoultions while using gos= on vs. gos=off.


Unlike Samsung, which has GPUWATCH that can be checked at any time, these devices in China must use perfdog to accurately monitor the game resolution. This software is billed by the minute, and no ordinary consumer will buy it.
A well-optimized game should use a lot more GPU than the CPU. The game of this company is not optimized well.
I am not keen with the usage of GPUWATCH - as it is a single vendor implementation. However we are seeing lower FPS counts in perfdog then the actual "onscreen" solutions used on the devices.
Regarding the "sneaky" resolution change: We have some videos here giving the impression that also GOS might making use of it. OR the highest resolution settings on some games aren't even on HD-Level on this devices.

I know what you mean regarding usage of the GPU vs CPU while gameing. But the thing here: Seems the GPU is quiet limited even with GOS turned "Off". beside the first 2 or 3 minutes, where we see a slight increase in Clockspeeds. After the "throtteling" we basically running in GOS=ON - Mode. So even when you optimize this you won't get much more out of the GPU at all.
What is changed is, that the CPU usage seems a bit off. We are seeing the x2-core as well as the a-710 cores running on higher clockspeeds for a quiet big ammount of time. The A510-cores more or less running on the same clockspeeds but with a lot less variance.
Simplified speaking: Assuming the application and it's settings are identical (it is more or less meaningless how good or bad the software is optimized - the system isn't changed and we are just comparing the same system in different configurations), then you are throwing more ressources in to get the same results - basically bad efficency. And that at a moment where - as much we can see - at least we are already "throtteling" the CPU / GPU. We can applaude now to samsung to invent a mode which seems to be more efficient then the native implementation for throtteling. Or we can ask how samsung is able to let the same software with the same settings run on the same device but achieves compareable endresults while using less ressources.
 
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p40403

Senior Member
Feb 20, 2012
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Which is an intresting point. What would be the "normal" resolution that this is rendered on? there have been many videos around showing different rendering resoultions while using gos= on vs. gos=off.



I am not keen with the usage of GPUWATCH - as it is a single vendor implementation. However we are seeing lower FPS counts in perfdog then the actual "onscreen" solutions used on the devices.
Regarding the "sneaky" resolution change: We have some videos here giving the impression that also GOS might making use of it. OR the highest resolution settings on some games aren't even on HD-Level on this devices.

I know what you mean regarding usage of the GPU vs CPU while gameing. But the thing here: Seems the GPU is quiet limited even with GOS turned "Off". beside the first 2 or 3 minutes, where we see a slight increase in Clockspeeds. After the "throtteling" we basically running in GOS=ON - Mode. So even when you optimize this you won't get much more out of the GPU at all.
What is changed is, that the CPU usage seems a bit off. We are seeing the x2-core as well as the a-710 cores running on higher clockspeeds for a quiet big ammount of time. The A510-cores more or less running on the same clockspeeds but with a lot less variance.
Simplified speaking: Assuming the application and it's settings are identical (it is more or less meaningless how good or bad the software is optimized - the system isn't changed and we are just comparing the same system in different configurations), then you are throwing more ressources in to get the same results - basically bad efficency. And that at a moment where - as much we can see - at least we are already "throtteling" the CPU / GPU. We can applaude now to samsung to invent a mode which seems to be more efficient then the native implementation for throtteling. Or we can ask how samsung is able to let the same software with the same settings run on the same device but achieves compareable endresults while using less ressources.
Genshin Impact, a game that has a great influence on Samsung, only uses CPU resources, so you can see that the proportion of GPU is very small.
However, the design of 1+3+4 is for some performance testing software scores to look good. In fact, in the game you will only see 1+4 or 3+4 and not 1+3
 

Hudrator

Senior Member
Genshin Impact, a game that has a great influence on Samsung, only uses CPU resources, so you can see that the proportion of GPU is very small.

Hmmm at least to me it seems that it can't make more use of it as it is "restricted" via throtteling / GOS - you name it. At least during the intial 2 Minutes one can see that the usage of higher Clocks regarding the GPU is possible from a viewpoint of the game.

However, the design of 1+3+4 is for some performance testing software scores to look good. In fact, in the game you will only see 1+4 or 3+4 and not 1+3
From my understanding the game shouldn't see any any type of clusters or cores - or better: you shouldn't care. From a functional point of view the app shouldn't be responsible for choosing used cores. Thats up to the OS. Otherwise you will meet several more problems to take care of. Also one would bypass to some degree the architecture of android itself.


how ever - regardless of what you see from a app point of view:
The main question for me is still if we are seeing different rendering resolutions while using GOS on / off and performing these kinds of tests.
 

KamfromCali

Member
Dec 4, 2020
18
4
Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra
For anyone who's having on-screen control issues with their PS remote App due to the GOS. You'll need to download the Samsung game plugin app. Open it and enable samsung game booster plus plugin. Open the plugin and bring up the custom setting tab. Set as how the photo. Afterwards, good to go!
Screenshot_20220324-182900_Game Booster Plus.jpg
 

Brown sugar101

New member
Apr 10, 2022
1
2
Here's a link to my thread, i debloat Samsung firmware including GOS (Game Optimizing Service) for the best performance and battery.
I need to keep wifi calling help me
 
-Just use Alliance sheild X, it can disable GOS all together.
-Then download SetEdit and set all the "Device/app Restriction" bs to false/0.
-Then download AIDA64, go back to Alliance sheild X, find AIDA and prevent it from ever being closed. Boom. Your system will run at max the entire time, literally exploiting Samsungs shady ass Volkswagen knockoff tach that let's the system run at max preformance when benchmark apps are open.
 

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  • 8
    I am really amused to see so much discussion on this here on XDA and social media as well. For 98% of the folks, as long as your phone runs smooth and gives you an all day battery life, enjoy it. Many app developers are also not saints. They may leak data and bloat code etc so OEMs need to take the matter in their hands. For avid gamers, they should probably get a gaming machine and use phones only for casual gaming. With current tech limits, gaming on phones will necessitate some tweaks to optimize performance. Apple is polished because it simply stops everything else in the background and focuses ONLY on 1 task on the foreground. And iPhones also do heat up after sometime while gaming.
    It's really not the OEM's place to "take matter into their own hands". Don't push your use case on everyone else. Samsung does not know my user case, just like Apple does not know my use case, just like YOU don't know my use case. People bought this (and other, like the OP9) phone partially due to benchmark scores that should translate into performance metrics for their use case. When that's not the case, then they should be mad they got a paperweight. Check out the GOS enabled geekscore, it's basically a GS10. Why should users be happy they got a smooth UI experience when the things they actually want to do on a phone is gimped?

    Your sentiment on a gaming machine... are you serious? This phone costs more than an actual mid-upper tier gaming PC. Some people like to play games on their phones, and some games are mobile only.

    Again, optimizing by itself is not necessarily a bad thing. They just need to make it an opt-in experience, explain what it does clearly, let the users choose which apps to "optimize", and start letting people use their hardware like their own.
    6
    Maybe instead of panicking and basing decisions on headlines and mob mentality you think about the reasons why this might have been done to start with?

    Most of if not all of these apps will be very poorly optimised in general but especially for the hardware in the S22 series of devices - this means that left unchecked they will use more resources than they really need to, warming up the devices causing thermal throttling to kick in and draining the battery fast (as well as possibly reducing the lifespan of certain components).

    This APK keeps these things in check, but for games where you really need more performance you can use gamebooster to switch to performance mode and recovery virtually all the lost power (if not all of it) - making it your choice to sacrifice heat and battery life for performance when you need it, not all the time.
    5
    @velqn
    First let me thank you for your effort - to be frankly speeking: I am a bit puzzeled.

    as far as i see even with GOS = Off the X2 core seems to be limited to some degree, capping it at 1728MHz. We litteraly see no peaks above that value. Which can of course be due to the scheduling of the OS and taking into account the charts ARM presented could be resonable when thinking of efficeny. Strangely the same seems to apply to the other clusters as well. - 1728MHz. Just to remember - these cores are advertised to run with a max of 2.8 / 2.5 / 1.8 GHz. And we are seeing kind of hard breaks at 2/3 of the clockspeeds.
    Other apps or benchmarks as reference would be helpful. I can only guess that from a CPU side of things this is applied to keep the Cores in the most efficient clockspeedrange, trying to avoid to get into the "expensive" areas in reagrds of performance / energy ratio.
    Personally speaking i have some doubts that this is the best approach or "way of" scheduling. But at least it is simple :p

    Also the GPU seems to have a max. at 500MHz... which would be quiet low to the competition and as written before way lower then all expectations. and noticeably it runs on max nearly all the time which is not the case for GOS ON.
    So the question occurring: What is happening beside GPU / CPU clockspeed adjustment.
    I mean your tests shows cleary that the CPU clockspeeds as well as the GPU speeds are lower. MUCH lower. While delivering the same fps.
    The only explanation i have in mind at the moment could be a change in rendering resolution, which is done automatically or other changes that are related to graphic settings.

    Your thoughts?

    Very well said! Honestly I am a bit puzzled and lightly frustrated as I have been doing this GOS on/off test since the Note 20 Ultra/S21 and now with the S22U all strictly Exynos units. Exynos 2100 at the end after many updates was more or less stabilized to a point where even in my 1 hour torture throttle test it behaved more steadily then the Exynos 2200 - but this is the typical Samsung story - they release the latest gen and it takes so much months and updates to make it OK to a point where they need to release the next SoC and series.

    So that`s a bit frustrating - going with the latest phone & SoC will get you a minor increase if even no increase at all. But let`s say we are used on Sammy doing that. Now with the Exynos 2200 and the Xclipse 920 things were supposed to be different - or at least were market differently - remember the Exynos 2200 launch - gaming revolution, new era, the AMD GPU and the RDNA v2 with the huge potential of hardware RTX ray tracing and the VRS variable rate shading... and when it launched it was quickly discovered that the Adreno 730 was 30-40% faster than the Xclipse... but then drivers were blamed...

    Now back on the question What is happening beside GPU / CPU clockspeed adjustment.

    There were some posts back here pointing to a KR forum where a bit more insight has been provided on how the latest GOS works - what was covered in Max`s W. tweet in an android police article also touch based on the things discovered on this KR forum:

    It's also not your usual throttling. So far as Android Police's Max Weinbach can tell digging into some of the code that appears to control it, it's incredibly sophisticated, balancing multiple parameters like temperature, expected battery level at different times, CPU speed, and predicted FPS benefits when determining what sorts of resources a given game gets. This tuning likely varies from app to app and game to game, so the benchmark numbers you see reported here and elsewhere may not be accurate to all circumstances.

    Also when this issue unraveled Samsung said the following:

    Our priority is to deliver the best mobile experience for consumers. We value the feedback we receive about our products and after careful consideration, we plan to roll out a software update soon so users can control the performance while running game apps,”

    and

    “The Game Optimizing Service (GOS) has been designed to help game apps achieve a great performance while managing device temperature effectively. GOS does not manage the performance of non-gaming apps,”
    So I am now even more puzzled - it seems that when GOS is on some heavy acrobatics are performed in the background - and that actually might not be bad if it`s done in a controlled way and if the user has the option to opt -in/out.

    Now the issue with that is the following - it`s just so scattered. What do I have in my mind:
    1. First there is the GOS - it has a priority mode
    2. Then there is the Game Plugins with Priority and Game Booster Plus mode
    3. Then there is the Thermal Guardian part of Good Guardians where you can adjust temp setting with -/+ 2 degrees °C
    4. Then we have the enhanced/balanced/maximum processing settings via Device Care / Battery

    So what takes precedence? When you enable Game Booster Plus you get some messages that some of the other modes might not work as expected so it`s probably a good start - but it seems to me like many dev teams works in silo mode - working on the same components or part of them - not necessarily sharing knowledge.

    So besides the GPU/CPU clockspeed does Samsung rely on changing CPU governors parameters, i.e. did they implement a smart overclock in real time based on some parameters readings? Is that effective at all?

    Samsung are pushing more & more for that sustained performance and when I was testing the day 0 updated and the March AVBF update it seems that they sacrificed a bit of the peak performance to get more sustained performance over time.

    If you want to jag up your phone and get the best of it probably that wont work. Samsung say they will issue a software update to allow us to control the performance while running game apps but all of this somehow happens even now.

    What I think they can do be a bit more transparent and they tried to do so -but it all seems like gimmicks, e.g. the Game Booster Plus will give you options to go for MAX FPS or MAX quality or performance, and you can change/tweak this settings individually for all games. And then we come to the Geekbench controversy - them deciding to delist Samsung as ti seems that they do not affect benchmarks with their "clever" or "not so clever" overclocking capabilities.

    The solution might be again something related with transparency - keep this clever algorithms to measure 1000 things and decide what`s best for you, so that you are not unhappy when playing but you still have some battery at the end and you phone doesnt burn your hands...

    and give the user the option to switch all of that - but natively from the system. What`s the point of making GOS as a system apps and getting the users to find alternative ways to mess up with this - just make this as a standard option.

    Combine all the power management + performance management settings in a single dashboard so that they are not scattered all over the places... that would be a good start.
    4
    @velqn
    Nicely summerized.

    Regarding the xclipse features like raytracing and so on: I guess this would be benefits which will depend on the game devs. So given that after some major changes from Exynos 990 to 2200 guess it would be time for a baseline which developers might rely on. Also some invests from Samsung might be usefull to get things like genshin / PUPG to really make use of this or advertise this as "samsung exclusive". As long as other vendors are not jumping on this wagon i guess these features will "idle" around... At least i can't see real benefit at the current situation.
    Which getting me to the other point:
    Whats the benefit of all this GOS.

    Basically we are seeing a huge amount of effort taken to optimize the experience of the device.
    How ever: Looking on the big picture - Are other devices performing significantly worse? Or Samsung significantly better?
    At the moment i would say "no". Not want to be "ungreatful" to samsung, but as they told us: This is only for gameing (we will see how things turn out for this).
    So basically all the other functions won't benefit from all this complex optimization process. Once again i am not sure if this kind of optimization is really effectiv... As far as i read, ARM has spend some good time into think and optimize for example the scheduler / govenors for the big.LITTLE architecture. Not speaking of the de-clustrized approach.
    Working with "static" caps and baselines seems to waste a lot of theses efforts. Also your tests and some others have shown that, depending on the usecase, a good portion of ressources won't be used likely. Which is a shame in many ways.

    Another aspect is the impact on the industry: We have to keep in mind das samsung has a mighty tooling with GOS to push certain apps (and vice versa). Also, from an App developers point of view, developing for samsung phones is kind of a hit and miss, as you can't rely on anything. If sammy things, settings aren't suiting "theire" overall theme, they can easily change it and developer efforts are ... well thrown in the bin.

    As for the geekbench topic: Seems to me that the Android-OEMs are in a kind of deadlock. You need the higher benches to justify the new generations and prices (not to mention the comparison to apple) but you can't really get the performance on the track (or maybe just for a really short amount of time). Also the years of HW unification are now showing there negative effects.
    The only real solution, to build / develop / produce highly custumized SoCs, died along with Moongoose - at least for Samsung.

    Seeing all this makes me think, that samsung might just introduce a more performance oriented mode for GOS... Which is at least something but... even if it is still disappointing.
    4
    Here's a link to my thread, i debloat Samsung firmware including GOS (Game Optimizing Service) for the best performance and battery.