How unsecure is to stay unencrypted?

[blackhawk_LA]

Hello! Yesterday my S22 Ultra was stolen. Everyone knows how does it feels when you lose something that is not only worth nearly 1000$, but also has tons of private information and personal data.
I had a custom ROM installed, and thanks to Samsung firmware, that means having to leave your data unencrypted. I know that most thieves only want the phone for selling it, but of course I'm a bit worried about my data.
My question is: how much more unsecure really is to stay unencrypted? I've read about samsung Knox security being hacked in minutes, so I wonder if in the end there's really a difference (if the thieves want to acces your data, they will do?)
I've just bought an S23U and for the first time, I have doubts about rooting.
I appreciate your answers and opinions.

 

[OldNoobOne]

Greetings Friends,
So whats the solution? All I can think of is to not use expensive phones at all so that the thieves aren't interested in the phones OR to keep a dummy phone of the same make in the other pocket OR to custom-fit our pockets with Titanium streachable thread/cord leashed to the phone OR hypothetically, somehow linkup the screen-unlock process with a 3rd-party company that verifies the users fingerprint + Face etc. biometrics then if failed remote wipe & share geolocation data with the local police
I think TWRP.me should be requested to build recoveries with password protection & usb debugging / dev options should be kept off by the user if not using those features.

 

[WoKoschekk]

I think TWRP.me should be requested to build recoveries with password protection

see here https://twrp.me/faq/securetwrp.html

usb debugging / dev options should be kept off by the user if not using those features

not needed in recovery, enabled by default. only for adb while in system.

 

[jwoegerbauer]

Upon the initial boot of a modern Android phone your data gets encrypted and keeps encrypted. Even in recovery. What do you think why TWRP has all the trouble with encryption?? In stock recovery you can only use minimal ADB. See source code: https://android.googlesource.com/platform/bootable/recovery/

That means you can only access adb sideload. No data is accessible in recovery since /data gets not mounted!

ROFL

1.
AFAIK stock Recovery knows of command --set_encrypted_filesystem

hence you via ADB can disable encryption

adb devices
adb root
adb shell
su
echo -e "--set_encrypted_filesystem=off" > /cache/recovery/command
exit

2.
You either can't properly read or you must be struck with blindness: that's what can be performed via ADB when in recovery mode

Using adb shell allows you to run all Android shell commands as those are provided by Toybox and / or Toolbox as also invoke binaries, such as recovery

 

[OldNoobOne]

see here https://twrp.me/faq/securetwrp.html



not needed in recovery, enabled by default. only for adb while in system.

Hi Friend,
Thats nice piece of info there , that article was published on june 4th 23 so its latest info too from twrp.me.
So jtag seems like some universal oem internal tool to access the hardware of a device. But I slept over it and as a solution to Thief-Encryption-Custom Recovery dilema thing I think The OEMs should ship their devices (high-end ones atleast) with unique NFC tags which could have option to set password-pin protection on them and if the device is geofenced with its unique NFC tag then if the device is away from its tag outside a certain pre-determined radial distance of say 15 meters then a OEM app hiding inside /system/priv-app or any other partition like recovery etc. would initiate a (hypothetical) command like Destroy Data Partition or maybe simply auto wipe the phone & send SOS SMS to local police. The Thief would not only need to steal the phone but also have to steal the Unique OEM-NFC Tag which the device owner can safely hide within for example their undergarments or socks or a pendant etc. I think this would be a better idea to keep a 1000$ phone secure from thieves, It surely looks next-gen idea to me

 

[WoKoschekk]

ROFL

1.
AFAIK stock Recovery knows of command --set_encrypted_filesystem
View attachment 5926127
hence you via ADB can disable encryption

adb devices
adb shell
su
echo -e "--set_encrypted_filesystem=off" > /cache/recovery/command
exit

2.
You either can't properly read or you must be struck with blindness: that's what can be performed via ADB when in recovery mode
View attachment 5926085

Using adb shell allows you to run all Android shell commands as those are provided by Toybox and / or Toolbox as also invoke binaries, such as recovery

ROFL, lol, haha, uh uh, yeah, yeah, bla, bla, bla... debuggable builds!!

 

[WoKoschekk]

ROFL

1.
AFAIK stock Recovery knows of command --set_encrypted_filesystem
View attachment 5926127
hence you via ADB can disable encryption

adb devices
adb shell
su
echo -e "--set_encrypted_filesystem=off" > /cache/recovery/command
exit

Did you also install some Magisk modules for your stock recovery or where does the su binary comes from? the default user of your recovery that switches to root is called...? idk... can't follow you.

 

[jons99]

ROFL

1.
AFAIK stock Recovery knows of command --set_encrypted_filesystem
View attachment 5926127
hence you via ADB can disable encryption

adb devices
adb shell
su
echo -e "--set_encrypted_filesystem=off" > /cache/recovery/command
exit

2.
You either can't properly read or you must be struck with blindness: that's what can be performed via ADB when in recovery mode
View attachment 5926085

Using adb shell allows you to run all Android shell commands as those are provided by Toybox and / or Toolbox as also invoke binaries, such as recovery

but how can you figure out the lock screen password in order to get into twrp and execute your adb command
twrp won't decrypt the data without a password

 

[WoKoschekk]

To get straight to the point: the encryption for Android devices is based on a master key stored encrypted (default_password) in TEE. Setting a display pattern will then encrypt the already encrypted key again with the use of the pattern. That is the reason why some builds of TWRP require to enter the display pattern and others require to deactivate the display pattern.

I just want to mention it to avoid any future discussions about some confusing encrypting theories...

 

[jwoegerbauer]

ROFL, lol, haha, uh uh, yeah, yeah, bla, bla, bla... debuggable builds!!

Yes, ADB is enabled by default in both the eng ( the default flavor ) and the userdebug builds of Android.

ro.debuggable=1

BTW:

In general adbd is started by the debugable Android system itself with root permissions. Up to a certain point, it uses these root permissions (open port and so on), and then adbd drops the root permissions.
On an Android userdebug build, it comes with adb root access, means adbd does not drop the root permissions, hence every command executed via adb inside the shell (adb shell) is also executed with root permissions - thus running su basically isn't needed at all.

 

[jwoegerbauer]

but how can you figure out the lock screen password in order to get into twrp and execute your adb command
twrp won't decrypt the data without a password

No clues, because I never made use of TWRP, and never will do so.

 

[jons99]

No clues, because I never made use of TWRP, and never will do so.

why not use twrp it's the best recovery ever also if anyone could bypass encryption with an adb command phone encryption wouldn't be a thing lastly you can try it on your own phone reboot to your stock? recovery enter that adb command and see if you can grab any personal information without entering the lock screen password I don't think you'll be able to but you might surprise me

 

[WoKoschekk]

thus running su basically isn't needed at all.

There is no su command/binary in any build of any recovery. You are always root!

Thanks for providing me the difference between eng and debuggable builds. We are talking of stock recovery = eng = minadb = only sideload accepted!

Did you know the prop files?

 

[TheMystic]

Hello! Yesterday my S22 Ultra was stolen. Everyone knows how does it feels when you lose something that is not only worth nearly 1000$, but also has tons of private information and personal data.
I had a custom ROM installed, and thanks to Samsung firmware, that means having to leave your data unencrypted. I know that most thieves only want the phone for selling it, but of course I'm a bit worried about my data.
My question is: how much more unsecure really is to stay unencrypted? I've read about samsung Knox security being hacked in minutes, so I wonder if in the end there's really a difference (if the thieves want to acces your data, they will do?)
I've just bought an S23U and for the first time, I have doubts about rooting.
I appreciate your answers and opinions.

I suggest everyone who tinkers with their phones to keep two of them: one which would have sensitive information (like banking apps) should be completely stock (bootloader locked) and the other one can be used for modding. Personally I don't use banking apps on my Android phones (because they require access to SMS and other unnecessary permissions).

Pretty much all accounts provide an option to view all devices where you have logged in (under the account security section) and you'd be able to sign-out of devices you no longer use or lost. For Google accounts, you'll find it here.

And you can remotely erase your device using the Find my Device app from Google.

 

[blackhawk_LA]

I suggest everyone who tinkers with their phones to keep two of them: one which would have sensitive information (like banking apps) should be completely stock (bootloader locked) and the other one can be used for modding. Personally I don't use banking apps on my Android phones (because they require access to SMS and other unnecessary permissions).

Pretty much all accounts provide an option to view all devices where you have logged in (under the account security section) and you'd be able to sign-out of devices you no longer use or lost. For Google accounts, you'll find it here.

And you can remotely erase your device using the Find my Device app from Google.

Having two phones is too much trouble for me. I've decided that having stock rooted ROM with encrypted data is the best compromise for me. Theoretically no one could access my data, despite being easy to erase the phone and sell if is it's robbed (that's what I understand)
I'm learning a lot with this discussion.

 

[TheMystic]

having stock rooted ROM with encrypted data is the best compromise for me.

Why do you want to make that compromise?

How often do you do banking work on your phone? I'm asking this to see if a compromise here would be the better option.

I use GPay to make payments using my phone (which is completely stock). For all other work, I use a web browser on my laptop. There are two distinct advantages of GPay:

1. It doesn't work if your registered SIM isn't inserted. So if you lose your phone and you block your SIM, person having your phone won't be able to use the app.

2. GPay doesn't need SMS permission to work, which most banking apps do (reason why I don't install banking apps on Android phone).

3. If you install GPay on another phone and login with your registered mobile number, GPay on the previous phone would automatically stop working (and all data would be erased).

Considering that it is only very rarely do I use my phone for any banking transaction outside of GPay (I use GPay quite frequently), I would rather make this compromise than use a phone that is modded.

What exactly do you need root for today? Non-rooted phones are quite capable today.

 

[OldNoobOne]

What exactly do you need root for today? Non-rooted phones are quite capable today.

Sorry i keep barging in
When we insatll System Disabler app with root permissions it shows us all that the so-called trusted apps are doing behind the scenes, we need root to disable those specific serrvices of the apps for sanity. Every app is loaded with trackers & unsolicited services that users didnt ask for. Gugle Pley Services app has the biggest load of services running inside the app (over 300+) and we have to disable minimum approx 30+ services in it which are outright spy services.
If you use Aurora Store instead of Pley Store, it shows you the number of trackers each app has, we can then choose a similar app that has no trackers in it for example Seegnal Messenger has no trackers while Wotsapp has many.
When I use banking apps I dont get any sms notifications but when i use my cards at merchant locations & net-banking I get sms notifs stating where i transacted and whats my current balance in the bank account, so if not rooted then all the apps installed (regardless of what permissions the user has allowed to those apps) do obviously snoop on sms notifs too.