Is the 48 mp camera real or fake?

[Kodagf]

Hi everyone. I'd like to know if anybody could get a 48 mp dng file from this phone. It is strange that raw file is only 12 mp. The quality of the 48 mp jpeg image is poor and seems rather an interpolated from 12 mp. How is possible to get a raw file smaller (12mp) than the original (48mp) ? And many camera aps won't give the jpeg 48 mp option but only the 12 mp. Comparing an original jpeg 40 mp from p20 pro with the one that this phone offers, the difference is tremendous on details and structure. Thanks for reading.

 

[TheMrBinary]

non-pro --> fake
pro --> real

 

[Kodagf]

non-pro --> fake
pro --> real

For what reason then, it won't give a 48 mp dng file? And also you cannot have from 48mp jpeg the option 16:9 ? If it was the stock camera limitation, why then, all other camera apps behave the same way?
Speaking always for pro model.

 

[a.cid]

Hi everyone. I'd like to know if anybody could get a 48 mp dng file from this phone. It is strange that raw file is only 12 mp. The quality of the 48 mp jpeg image is poor and seems rather an interpolated from 12 mp. How is possible to get a raw file smaller (12mp) than the original (48mp) ? And many camera aps won't give the jpeg 48 mp option but only the 12 mp. Comparing an original jpeg 40 mp from p20 pro with the one that this phone offers, the difference is tremendous on details and structure. Thanks for reading.

I did not quite understand what you were saying. The 48MP shots are "real" as Xiaomi claims. For non-stock camera apps, just make sure you have Camera2API option available and enabled to enable 48MP mode. For instance, I enabled the same in Open Camera, and I had the capability to shoot "48MP" in RAW dng format.

And I kinda sorta get what you are trying to say, but I do not know enough about the topic to comment.

Here is one shot from RN7Pro with Open Camera app with Camera2API enabled, saved in jpeg and raw. One is the standard jpeg with resolution 8000 x 6000‬ and 6MB in size, the other is the dng of the same shot with resolution 3984 x 2984 (11.9 MP) as reported by Photoshop with a file size of 22.9 MB:
JPG: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mKD7i2idv1YBjSFsepTCFShyTJTlPm6t/view?usp=sharing
DNG: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y6Xrez8sjFBP3HWI1__HchVtZ7unBTRr/view?usp=sharing

If you plan to compare the RN7 Pro, which costs as much as an early mid-range device, against the Huawei P20 Pro, which is top tier flagship from last year, then you will definitely be disappointed. One phone costs a couple of times the other. So that comparison does not make sense to me.

 

[Kodagf]

For a moment I was happy to hear that you were able to shoot 48 mp in raw dng format with open camera, but then I saw the dng file you posted was only 12 mp (a little less perhaps). So, unfortunately, I still am suspicious about what xiaomi claims for the camera since it is not possible to get 48 mp dng file with any app. The size of such a file should be about 45 mb. The quality of images of not 7 pro is excellent but the details are of 12 mp level. I posted an image from mi note 2 (21mp camera) where you can see the difference in details. I wonder if I get such an image from an older phone what should I expect with a newer with the double size of mp in the sensor. I'm afraid we have to do with a xiaomi's trick ......


Ps. Now I see that system made my image much smaller. 243 kb instead of 12 mb (original). you v\cannot get conclusions this way.. sorry.

 

[Kodagf]

I had the idea to post a crop of the original image. Take a look.

 

[j1505243]

Ok, I'll explain.

It's a Quad Bayer sensor, what typically results in lack of raw output availability in case of the full res. That's due to the fact that OEMs assume no app would be able to process non-standard array, else they would have to process it on their own, through utilizing stacking (superres?) or simple remosaic. The latter would result in artifacts or loss of quality.
Because of that, all available raw streams come from binning (pixel "merging").
About the quality tho, it's just a Xiaomi thing. All you can currently do is disable the edge mode and denoising in Open Camera. Then your results might get more detailed, possibly at the cost of color fringing. At least, that's the case with Mi 9.

But about RN7 non-Pro, uhh. It has S5KGM1, which doesn't even support any kind of 48 MP mode, so the 48 MP images from RN7, Oppo F11 Pro, Vivo V15 Pro end up being a placebo.

 

[Kodagf]

Sorry that I saw your answer after I started a new thread with the same subject. Thanks for all your info. Still I wonder, why we cannot get a 48mp DNG file with any app, like for example on p20 pro that has the same quad bayer technology. And how is possible to get a 12 mp rawfile, from a 48 mp sensor? With p20 pro we can choose between 40 mp dng or 10 mp jpeg with binning technology. Why this is impossible with RN7pro ?

 

[Kodagf]

Another question that I have is that: If all available raw streams come from binning, then the 48mp jpeg from where it comes?

 

[j1505243]

Another question that I have is that: If all available raw streams come from binning, then the 48mp jpeg from where it comes?

Sensor mode itself is a raw stream (typically 10 bit), but drivers are constructed in a way that filters out any quad bayer raw access from third party apps. The 48 MP JPEGs come from processing applied on it by the camera stack.
For further data, you can look on Camera2Test and most importantly, "dumpsys media.camera" command. "sensormode" is the keyword you're looking for in case of the latter. Then you'll get a 8000x6000 mode listed with a third number, which means the framerate, probably around 24 fps.

And anyyyway, disable edge mode and denoising in Open Camera if you want to see something about IMX586 with bare eyes.

 

[Kodagf]

Sensor mode itself is a raw stream (typically 10 bit), but drivers are constructed in a way that filters out any quad bayer raw access from third party apps. The 48 MP JPEGs come from processing applied on it by the camera stack.
For further data, you can look on Camera2Test and most importantly, "dumpsys media.camera" command. "sensormode" is the keyword you're looking for in case of the latter. Then you'll get a 8000x6000 mode listed with a third number, which means the framerate, probably around 24 fps.

And any way, disable edge mode and denoising in Open Camera if you want to see something about IMX586 with bare eyes.[/QU

Thanks, I can see what you mean. It's a pity thow, that there is no a 48mp dng file which, in bright light might be very interesting , offering hight level of details.... I guess that with 1,75 f and binning, xiaomi's goal is a brighter image in the shortest shooting time. This kind of images are very good for internet media use, but in a big screen they are worse than images from older phones .

 

[j1505243]

Sensor mode itself is a raw stream (typically 10 bit), but drivers are constructed in a way that filters out any quad bayer raw access from third party apps. The 48 MP JPEGs come from processing applied on it by the camera stack.
For further data, you can look on Camera2Test and most importantly, "dumpsys media.camera" command. "sensormode" is the keyword you're looking for in case of the latter. Then you'll get a 8000x6000 mode listed with a third number, which means the framerate, probably around 24 fps.

And any way, disable edge mode and denoising in Open Camera if you want to see something about IMX586 with bare eyes.[/QU

Thanks, I can see what you mean. It's a pity thow, that there is no a 48mp dng file which, in bright light might be very interesting , offering hight level of details.... I guess that with 1,75 f and binning, xiaomi's goal is a brighter image in the shortest shooting time. This kind of images are very good for internet media use, but in a big screen they are worse than images from older phones .

Well, as said before, try setting edge mode off with denoising off in Open Camera, with Camera2 mode enabled and 48 MP resolution selected. You'll notice a rather good difference, but be aware of the color artifacts. BTW, the best 48 MP outputs available yet are coming from Honor View 20. Maybe Google will outperform that on Pixel 4, but it's just a guess.