Is the party over? Bootloader unlocked, not rooted and no Pay?

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jackpollard

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2013
716
355
I wonder if this is the death blow for Pay if your not 100% stock and bootloader locked?

I'm stock, unlocked, custom kernel and no root.

My pay failed today and I could not figure out why, I read a thread where someone did a complete wipe and still failed saftynet. It seems that Google shut the door for Pay regardless if your rooted, you just have to be unlocked.

Any thoughts this can be worked around? Or like Chainfire said, it's just a matter of time before Google shuts the door.
 

Flicker20

Member
Oct 6, 2011
6
0
Exact same issue for me this morning... I have an unlocked bootloader but since upgrading to 7.0 I haven't rooted and I am completely stock - Android Pay failed. I ran Safetynet Helper and it failed with a CTS Profile Match: False.
As far as I am aware nothing has changed on my phone between me going to sleep last night and waking up this morning...
 

jackpollard

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2013
716
355
So, I know folks like Chainfire was able to always figure out someway to get things to work with root. Being its at the bootloader level, do you think its possible that folks would be able to figure something out? I suppose Google is just trying to aim more towards the general population, which I suppose I can't blame them, they are a for profit company. Between the Nexus current news, Pixel only software and now this, it seems to be getting clearer what direction they are going. How long until no financial app works if not bone stock? And what about like Netflix, PSVue, etc., really any app that does not want to allow any mods to the phone just wont work anymore.
 

bouchigo

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2008
1,109
688
Stockton
Game over. You must submit. Stay inside the lines.

That all just depends on the user. What's more important to you, root or AP? Do you want a more secure platform, or not? All they're really doing is forcing people to make that choice. Personally, I don't use AP very much, and when I do it's more to say, "Hey, that's cool, it works", so the choice is pretty simple for me :good:
 

jackpollard

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2013
716
355
That all just depends on the user. What's more important to you, root or AP? Do you want a more secure platform, or not? All they're really doing is forcing people to make that choice. Personally, I don't use AP very much, and when I do it's more to say, "Hey, that's cool, it works", so the choice is pretty simple for me :good:

My fear is that what is going to stop all apps from just building that check in and denying use? Apple has always been a walled environment, it was understood to a point, thank you Cydia. Google's implementation of Android on the Nexus was the main selling point to me. It was never the best device for me really, I have nothing but Mac's and the iPhone integrates great with the laptops, but again the open nature of the Nexus kept me hooked. It seems all the recent moves from Google is showing a different path, which I completely understand, but for me, I have to put the iPhone back at the top for my next phone, I'm not too sure what the current Android offerings do for me. Would the only way to get plain AOSP on my phone be to unlock and root? Or will I have to match my phone and software and really not be able to utilize all the available apps because if I want to mod something, I can't without possibly breaking apps? Or do I just not give a crap anymore and just smile and nod with my shiny new iPhone?
 

el_chiefo

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2009
146
22
Chi-Town
I just had this fail on me just yesterday. I unlocked bootloader, flashed stock Nougat firmware from google's dev site, left bootloader unlocked and just set up my device. Android Pay failed. Contacted Google, they told me to perform a factory reset, failed again. I just told them that I am assuming that the bootloader has to be locked in order for it to work. Locked and yes, it started working. I use AP almost on the daily, whether is be for the vending machines at the public park for when I pick up my daughter or for Uber. DAMN IT GOOGLE!!!
 

dratsablive

Senior Member
Feb 20, 2011
1,325
248
HARRISBURG
Interesting to note that Pokemon Go must not be using SafetyNet anymore. I flashed the developer preview images and am stock no root/custom recovery. SafetyNet fails, but PoGo still works.
 

combat goofwing

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2009
3,194
458
I had a fail this morning in a shop I always use it,git a message saying cannot be used on this device .I'm unlocked bootloader but never rooted,on beta programme so running 7.1 but had same thing a few days ago running 7.0,prior to the AP recent update I was using it in problem in 7.0 with unlocked BL
Also how do you relock the BL ,don't flash ROMs etc anymore so may as well lock it if it allows AP
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA-Developers mobile app
 
Last edited:

italia0101

Senior Member
Nov 9, 2008
3,804
1,357
My fear is that what is going to stop all apps from just building that check in and denying use? Apple has always been a walled environment, it was understood to a point, thank you Cydia. Google's implementation of Android on the Nexus was the main selling point to me. It was never the best device for me really, I have nothing but Mac's and the iPhone integrates great with the laptops, but again the open nature of the Nexus kept me hooked. It seems all the recent moves from Google is showing a different path, which I completely understand, but for me, I have to put the iPhone back at the top for my next phone, I'm not too sure what the current Android offerings do for me. Would the only way to get plain AOSP on my phone be to unlock and root? Or will I have to match my phone and software and really not be able to utilize all the available apps because if I want to mod something, I can't without possibly breaking apps? Or do I just not give a crap anymore and just smile and nod with my shiny new iPhone?

Not sure Googles selling point was ever rooting and modding , the selling point of Nexus for me was a clean OS , fast and smooth, updates etc. rooting / modding was a bonus, Android as a whole still offers a tonne more options for customization and utility than the iPhone even without rooting.
For me Root and custom ROMs are slowely dying imo anyways, not much need for me to root anymore . again this is just my opinion, but i never get why people are like " oh no root ?back to iPhone then" really? like that's the other difference, youre going back to a much much more locked down OS because you can't have root ?
 

jackpollard

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2013
716
355
Not sure Googles selling point was ever rooting and modding , the selling point of Nexus for me was a clean OS , fast and smooth, updates etc. rooting / modding was a bonus, Android as a whole still offers a tonne more options for customization and utility than the iPhone even without rooting.
For me Root and custom ROMs are slowely dying imo anyways, not much need for me to root anymore . again this is just my opinion, but i never get why people are like " oh no root ?back to iPhone then" really? like that's the other difference, youre going back to a much much more locked down OS because you can't have root ?

Thanks for the comments, they did make me think. I 100% agree with you regarding root, since N I've not rooted and kept pretty much to stock with the exception of a custom kernel.
So for me that's not the issue as much as this bl check. Here's my issue in a nutshell; last week I wanted to try Google Assist on my phone, not a problem. The zip did not touch anything that broke Pay. Bring that forward say a year. Now 50% of the apps check bl and if unlocked, no dice. If Google really wanted Assist to only be on the Pixel, check and see if unlocked and it just does not function. That's my issue. I also understand completely why Google is doing what they are doing, I think they could of gave a nod to us folks by maybe making you initial your OK with all that unlocking the bl'er signifies, you get my point.

I also agree with you regarding ROM's, Googles ui has become feature friendly enough where I've not bothered to flash any ROM, once I add LMT pie I'm pretty happy. As for IOS, the main selling point to me is the tight integration with the other devices, right now I use Pushbullet to get close to the same level of integration. My wife and kids also are iPhone users and no need to discuss Googles abortive messaging issues.

Last comment; I'm not getting rid of my 6P so fast, what this does is simply put the iPhone back in what I would think about getting when I'm ready. Whereas before I would not even consider it.
 
Last edited:
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italia0101

Senior Member
Nov 9, 2008
3,804
1,357
Thanks for the comments, they did make me think. I 100% agree with you regarding root, since N I've not rooted and kept pretty much to stock with the exception of a custom kernel.
So for me that's not the issue as much as this bl check. Here's my issue in a nutshell; last week I wanted to try Google Assist on my phone, not a problem. The zip did not touch anything that broke Pay. Bring that forward say a year. Now 50% of the apps check bl and if unlocked, no dice. If Google really wanted Assist to only be on the Pixel, check and see if unlocked and it just does not function. That's my issue.

I also agree with you regarding ROM's, Googles ui has become feature friendly enough where I've not bothered to flash any ROM, once I add LMT pie I'm pretty happy. As for IOS, the main selling point to me is the tight integration with the other devices, right now I use Pushbullet to get close to the same level of integration. My wife and kids also are iPhone users and no need to discuss Googles abortive messaging issues.
Fair points, unfortunately the majority of people on Android are not us on xda... unlocking bootloader is a vulnerability in itself, it allows for custom recoverys. People want more security but that comes at a price.

I do get your point though. I either case, I've just locked my bootloader this morning, had to start fresh but wasn't too bad, Android pay working of course

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

pickupman66

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2011
1,078
303
Podunk, Tennessee
Question for you guys. I am coming from the S5 with a locked BL. my previous was the s3 and it was all kinds of unlocked. Very fun device back in the day. I JUST got my 6p and have unlocked it and rooted it. I added google assistant and maybe plan a few aesthetic mods like a circle battery. Maybe do the pixel experience. other than that, I dont plan to do much more customization. Keep it pretty stock. I rooted for the ad blocking and mobile hot spot. so big question is can I re-lock the bootloader and keep root? If so, then I do understand that i need to wipe to re-unlock it again. thanks,
 

combat goofwing

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2009
3,194
458
1476975535716.jpg
Prior to the update to AP I used it on my phone in the 15 th no problem,now I get this .Never been rooted but BL is unlocked.Going to relock the BL

Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA-Developers mobile app
 

chromedome00

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2011
87
16
Fair points, unfortunately the majority of people on Android are not us on xda... unlocking bootloader is a vulnerability in itself, it allows for custom recoverys. People want more security but that comes at a price.

I do get your point though. I either case, I've just locked my bootloader this morning, had to start fresh but wasn't too bad, Android pay working of course

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

The unlocked bootloader indicates a huge risk. Even more then root. The volume of malicious android apps is growing at an alarming rate. With an unlocked bootloader it is possible to install a malicious app, but also to root, change the OS (as in a rootkit) so that everythng appears normal, but in reality everything in the OS is compromised. Root can then be removed or 100% hidden.

Google is avoiding the financial risk as best as possible - so looking for an unlocked bootloader is a better indicator then looking for root. It may indicate a false positive for some, but it protects AP 100%.

Google doesn't want the financial insecurities that exist in the desktop world - on all platforms (mac, linux, and windows).
 

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    My fear is that what is going to stop all apps from just building that check in and denying use? Apple has always been a walled environment, it was understood to a point, thank you Cydia. Google's implementation of Android on the Nexus was the main selling point to me. It was never the best device for me really, I have nothing but Mac's and the iPhone integrates great with the laptops, but again the open nature of the Nexus kept me hooked. It seems all the recent moves from Google is showing a different path, which I completely understand, but for me, I have to put the iPhone back at the top for my next phone, I'm not too sure what the current Android offerings do for me. Would the only way to get plain AOSP on my phone be to unlock and root? Or will I have to match my phone and software and really not be able to utilize all the available apps because if I want to mod something, I can't without possibly breaking apps? Or do I just not give a crap anymore and just smile and nod with my shiny new iPhone?

    Not sure Googles selling point was ever rooting and modding , the selling point of Nexus for me was a clean OS , fast and smooth, updates etc. rooting / modding was a bonus, Android as a whole still offers a tonne more options for customization and utility than the iPhone even without rooting.
    For me Root and custom ROMs are slowely dying imo anyways, not much need for me to root anymore . again this is just my opinion, but i never get why people are like " oh no root ?back to iPhone then" really? like that's the other difference, youre going back to a much much more locked down OS because you can't have root ?
    2
    Fair points, unfortunately the majority of people on Android are not us on xda... unlocking bootloader is a vulnerability in itself, it allows for custom recoverys. People want more security but that comes at a price.

    I do get your point though. I either case, I've just locked my bootloader this morning, had to start fresh but wasn't too bad, Android pay working of course

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

    The unlocked bootloader indicates a huge risk. Even more then root. The volume of malicious android apps is growing at an alarming rate. With an unlocked bootloader it is possible to install a malicious app, but also to root, change the OS (as in a rootkit) so that everythng appears normal, but in reality everything in the OS is compromised. Root can then be removed or 100% hidden.

    Google is avoiding the financial risk as best as possible - so looking for an unlocked bootloader is a better indicator then looking for root. It may indicate a false positive for some, but it protects AP 100%.

    Google doesn't want the financial insecurities that exist in the desktop world - on all platforms (mac, linux, and windows).
    1
    Game over. You must submit. Stay inside the lines.
    1
    Not sure Googles selling point was ever rooting and modding , the selling point of Nexus for me was a clean OS , fast and smooth, updates etc. rooting / modding was a bonus, Android as a whole still offers a tonne more options for customization and utility than the iPhone even without rooting.
    For me Root and custom ROMs are slowely dying imo anyways, not much need for me to root anymore . again this is just my opinion, but i never get why people are like " oh no root ?back to iPhone then" really? like that's the other difference, youre going back to a much much more locked down OS because you can't have root ?

    Thanks for the comments, they did make me think. I 100% agree with you regarding root, since N I've not rooted and kept pretty much to stock with the exception of a custom kernel.
    So for me that's not the issue as much as this bl check. Here's my issue in a nutshell; last week I wanted to try Google Assist on my phone, not a problem. The zip did not touch anything that broke Pay. Bring that forward say a year. Now 50% of the apps check bl and if unlocked, no dice. If Google really wanted Assist to only be on the Pixel, check and see if unlocked and it just does not function. That's my issue. I also understand completely why Google is doing what they are doing, I think they could of gave a nod to us folks by maybe making you initial your OK with all that unlocking the bl'er signifies, you get my point.

    I also agree with you regarding ROM's, Googles ui has become feature friendly enough where I've not bothered to flash any ROM, once I add LMT pie I'm pretty happy. As for IOS, the main selling point to me is the tight integration with the other devices, right now I use Pushbullet to get close to the same level of integration. My wife and kids also are iPhone users and no need to discuss Googles abortive messaging issues.

    Last comment; I'm not getting rid of my 6P so fast, what this does is simply put the iPhone back in what I would think about getting when I'm ready. Whereas before I would not even consider it.
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