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willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
It says it outputs at "2v and 420ma for .5Watt" output!? But Taking 2v * 420ma is .84Watts right? If used a voltage regulator (? Would this work 2v to 5vish?) Gives 168ma * 12ish hours of light per day... makes me think an ultra low power device like sony liveview or bluetooth headset or mouse/keyboard may be charged to some degree right? If this even outputs 100ma that's standard usb non negotiated current... that'll charge right? I'm not ee please assume I am an idiot and missing a fundamental problem. E.g voltage maybe of solar must overpower voltage of battery or 2v can't be regulated up to 5volt? Any input greatly appreciated.

---------- Post added at 01:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ----------

Even at 35ma reduced efficiency * 8 hours a day. .. To charge a what 100mah coin battery? If this even doubled battery life of liveview that's good enough for me. I'd love to geek out with a solar watch strap that could trickle charge any microusb device. seems like a win for $7 free shipping

---------- Post added at 01:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------

Btw check out this wicked solar bikini with female usb port and 1.5watt peltier effect beer cooler coozy. Www.solarcoterie.com. badfxucking ass! I would marry that girl ;)
 

reddragon72

Senior Member
May 28, 2008
1,384
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Houston, because I have a problem
It says it outputs at "2v and 420ma for .5Watt" output!? But Taking 2v * 420ma is .84Watts right? If used a voltage regulator (? Would this work 2v to 5vish?) Gives 168ma * 12ish hours of light per day... makes me think an ultra low power device like sony liveview or bluetooth headset or mouse/keyboard may be charged to some degree right? If this even outputs 100ma that's standard usb non negotiated current... that'll charge right? I'm not ee please assume I am an idiot and missing a fundamental problem. E.g voltage maybe of solar must overpower voltage of battery or 2v can't be regulated up to 5volt? Any input greatly appreciated.

---------- Post added at 01:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 AM ----------

Even at 35ma reduced efficiency * 8 hours a day. .. To charge a what 100mah coin battery? If this even doubled battery life of liveview that's good enough for me. I'd love to geek out with a solar watch strap that could trickle charge any microusb device. seems like a win for $7 free shipping

---------- Post added at 01:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------

Btw check out this wicked solar bikini with female usb port and 1.5watt peltier effect beer cooler coozy. Www.solarcoterie.com. badfxucking ass! I would marry that girl ;)


So you plan on wearing this thing all day and being in the sunlight all day?
 

willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
So you plan on wearing this thing all day and being in the sunlight all day?

For the purposes of that simplified hypo - yes.
In real life, no, unfortunately not.
But let's say that out of a given day, a portion A will be spent in sunlight, a portion B in office light, a portion C in home lighting, and a portion D in the dark( near a nightlight though).

so weighting the time portions based on light exposure (and resultant solar efficiency) and summing (to then multiply by max current)
Portion A sunlight (80% efficiency) == .80 (3 hours a day) = 2.4
Portion B office == .60 (10 hours a day) = 6
Portion C home == .40 (4 hours a day) = 1.4
Portion D nightlight == .20 (7 hours a day) = 1.4

2.4+6+1.4+1.4=11.2 (factored hours per day equivalents at full output current)

11.2 * 100ma (conservative considering 420ma advertised) = 1120mah which isn't that bad for a day.
The battery in the live view is TINY... and runs all day. Assuming it's 100ma I'm generating enough to charge it ten times (and each charge lasts a full day).

Tear down of liveview:
http://www.wirelessgoodness.com/201...sony-ericssons-liveview-android-mini-display/

Boost converter I've ordered to go from 2v 420ma to 5v (usb) :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-DC-DC-...420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd02d1204

Any input is greatly appreciated. I know I'm not considering something. I'm not much of an EE guy. Please forgive the ignorance.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

So you plan on wearing this thing all day and being in the sunlight all day?

A less complicated worst-case conservative analysis:
I want to take solar panel watch band at advertised 2V output at 420ma and upconvert the voltage to 5V(usb) to be compatible with liveview.
P=VI (Power = Voltage*Current) would say that the current shouldn't fall to much less than 168ma in conversion (.92efficiency) = 154ma;
then lets say only 40% of the circumference of the solar wristwatch is in the light = 60ma;
then lets say most of the day is in non-ideal light .50 light intensity factor = 30ma;

30ma * 10 hours = 300mah-ish per day in watch mode.
if the liveview can run for a full day on 100mah-ish battery...
then I think a solar wristband constantly trickle charging might be pretty badass.

Any holes in the logic? advice or suggestions?

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

I feel like Lieutenant/Captain Dan in Apollo 13 where he's trying to rustle up enough amps for reentry and has the brilliant idea of parasitically reverse-siphoning from the LEM. We don't need much and it can be dirty. The liveview is so low power... any boost would help significantly. IMHO.
 

reddragon72

Senior Member
May 28, 2008
1,384
296
Houston, because I have a problem
I just don't see this as viable. One reason is size and weight. I understand the cool factor and all, but I just cannot justify this when the device already lasts a couple days or at least from wake to sleep. If yours doesn't then yours if bad. There is just no way that the device should be dead in a summer daylight period of 12 hours, and that is generous sunlight as usable sunlight for solar panels would be in the 8-9 hour range as the atmosphere interferes with most of that. Also going inside and other items such as trees and structures blocking light.

I'm not knocking you and I hope this works for you, but I just cannot see the device needing a more than one charge in a 24 hour period.

If you insist on going for it then give it a try, but I am seriously wondering how much power that converter will consume. You cannot just think that the output of the solar panel will be applied to watch, the converter will use a good portion of that. All I can say is I don't think it can due to the maths and to back me up is an entire industry that would have done things like this long ago if it was feasible.
 
Last edited:

willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
Agreed. The converter advertises 92% efficiency though. My battery seems to go quick on several of the liveviews I've used. bluetooth and display don't last very long. If this even gives 30% more runtime and the ability to charge my phone, mouse, keyboard, or headset ... I'm down for $13 bucks for parts and a project.

If I'm way wrong and conservatively pull in 22ma @ 5v... can I feed this via usb to the liveview? Do you think it will work?

---------- Post added at 12:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 AM ----------

I think these new tiny thin flexible water proof efficient cheap solar panels on ebay are a major enabling factor.
If a tiny 3cm by 1 cm solar cell in the 80s could power a calculator... And the new logitech keyboard is solar... perhaps itll work. The band solar cell is wide... lots of surface area to wrap around my wrist.
 

willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
I just don't see this as viable. One reason is size and weight. I understand the cool factor and all, but I just cannot justify this when the device already lasts a couple days or at least from wake to sleep. If yours doesn't then yours if bad. There is just no way that the device should be dead in a summer daylight period of 12 hours, and that is generous sunlight as usable sunlight for solar panels would be in the 8-9 hour range as the atmosphere interferes with most of that. Also going inside and other items such as trees and structures blocking light.

I'm not knocking you and I hope this works for you, but I just cannot see the device needing a more than one charge in a 24 hour period.

If you insist on going for it then give it a try, but I am seriously wondering how much power that converter will consume. You cannot just think that the output of the solar panel will be applied to watch, the converter will use a good portion of that. All I can say is I don't think it can due to the maths and to back me up is an entire industry that would have done things like this long ago if it was feasible.

as to size and weight...
These American made Powerfilm flexible solar cells are TINY and weigh nothing:
"0.2mm" flexible thin
and "0.012oz (0.24g)"
Two of these together in series (perhaps stitched with conductive thread as the solar bikini did would give 8.20V*32mA = .26W = 5V*52mA
Does anyone know if liveview will accept less than 100ma as a charging current?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PowerFil...163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4172b2bb13

and this converter is only 1.7cm * 2.5cm boasting 96%efficiency
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Conve...334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccaa23eee

At this point I guess I'm just waiting for parts to get here.
But a threshold issue is - what is the minimum milliamperage @ 5V that the liveview and/or most devices will start to charge? Must they receive 100ma? I don't think so but my only idea for testing it or data point is that I have successfully charged several gadgets (bt headset, keyboard, mouse, and liveview) via my note 2 OTG USB ("host-ish" port) without any charged hub just from the phone...and the charge was within a reasonable time. While a full USB HOST must supply 100mA baseline; USB OTG (at least this example supplies only 8mA baseline) p. 26 "OTG Dual Role"
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/39721b.pdf

So, if my note2 can charge peripherals at 8mA (ish) likely the solar cells can charge at unconfigured non-negotiated promiscuous mode at >8ma and potentially up to the regular USB Host 100mA non-negotiated mode right?
Any input greatly appreciated.
I am by no means an expert but would love to learn or hear why this will fail to save me some time recreating the wheel needlessly. :)
 

reddragon72

Senior Member
May 28, 2008
1,384
296
Houston, because I have a problem
as to size and weight...
These American made Powerfilm flexible solar cells are TINY and weigh nothing:
"0.2mm" flexible thin
and "0.012oz (0.24g)"
Two of these together in series (perhaps stitched with conductive thread as the solar bikini did would give 8.20V*32mA = .26W = 5V*52mA
Does anyone know if liveview will accept less than 100ma as a charging current?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-PowerFil...163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4172b2bb13

and this converter is only 1.7cm * 2.5cm boasting 96%efficiency
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Conve...334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccaa23eee

At this point I guess I'm just waiting for parts to get here.
But a threshold issue is - what is the minimum milliamperage @ 5V that the liveview and/or most devices will start to charge? Must they receive 100ma? I don't think so but my only idea for testing it or data point is that I have successfully charged several gadgets (bt headset, keyboard, mouse, and liveview) via my note 2 OTG USB ("host-ish" port) without any charged hub just from the phone...and the charge was within a reasonable time. While a full USB HOST must supply 100mA baseline; USB OTG (at least this example supplies only 8mA baseline) p. 26 "OTG Dual Role"
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/39721b.pdf

So, if my note2 can charge peripherals at 8mA (ish) likely the solar cells can charge at unconfigured non-negotiated promiscuous mode at >8ma and potentially up to the regular USB Host 100mA non-negotiated mode right?
Any input greatly appreciated.
I am by no means an expert but would love to learn or hear why this will fail to save me some time recreating the wheel needlessly. :)



whether or not 50Ma is enough will be a trial and error. By specs it should start charging it but when in use it may stop charging. So screen on the device may not take a charge or will charge but the charge will not be sufficient to keep the battery from draining during use.

remember your basing a 100ma USB port as the norm but that all depends on the battery drain while in use and the only way to test that is to open it up and put an amp meter on it. But in general use a device will charge with any current but the current may not be be enough to stop the battery from discharging while in use.
 
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willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
Damn. That's a good point. My only data on this is that liveview operates and seems to accumulate charge on my 2.1amp car charger. (Though it likely only takes 100 to 500mA). Fingers crossed please :) Thank you for your help and advice.
 

willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
whether or not 50Ma is enough will be a trial and error. By specs it should start charging it but when in use it may stop charging. So screen on the device may not take a charge or will charge but the charge will not be sufficient to keep the battery from draining during use.

remember your basing a 100ma USB port as the norm but that all depends on the battery drain while in use and the only way to test that is to open it up and put an amp meter on it. But in general use a device will charge with any current but the current may not be be enough to stop the battery from discharging while in use.

So, taking your advice to heart, I've plugged in the liveview to my computer via usb.
Also, I've run the remote camera plugin on liveview to keep screen and bluetooth engaged and in high power draw mode.
USB specs say 100mA is the default charge current if no negotiation takes place. (Do you know anyway to simulate or get less?)
I've searched Device manager under Win7 and see no unknown device and no enumerated device under the usb hubs (I do see keyboard 100mA; Mouse 98mA; Hp Printer 2mA...) but no liveview and no "unknown".
Is it safe to assume that this is then in non-negotiated 100mA current mode?
is the negotiation done in software/drivers in Windows or is handshaking in hardware/firmware ?
Unfortunately, the app seems to have a fifteen minute or so timeout. But has just run for about half an hour (15*2).
It seems to be in high load mode and still accumulating positive charge above the draw.
I'll know more as the experiment progresses.
Thanks again for the inspiration.
Best,
F
 

willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
whether or not 50Ma is enough will be a trial and error. By specs it should start charging it but when in use it may stop charging. So screen on the device may not take a charge or will charge but the charge will not be sufficient to keep the battery from draining during use.

remember your basing a 100ma USB port as the norm but that all depends on the battery drain while in use and the only way to test that is to open it up and put an amp meter on it. But in general use a device will charge with any current but the current may not be be enough to stop the battery from discharging while in use.

On (assuming) 100mA current charge from usb to liveview... it seems to be able to accumulate charge in the battery whilealso energizing Oled screen, processor, and bluetooth connection for liveview remote camera view.
Battery is now fully charged.
Trying to see how long it will take to run down the battery from full charge to zero with everything on and no usb connection.
 

reddragon72

Senior Member
May 28, 2008
1,384
296
Houston, because I have a problem
On (assuming) 100mA current charge from usb to liveview... it seems to be able to accumulate charge in the battery whilealso energizing Oled screen, processor, and bluetooth connection for liveview remote camera view.
Battery is now fully charged.
Trying to see how long it will take to run down the battery from full charge to zero with everything on and no usb connection.

I've ordered one of these guys. Let me get a hold of it and see what's up.

But as far as the device goes you will not see the device if it only has the power leads for connection which this will since it never interacts with a PC. So of the four wires it only has ground and positive so the PC will never register it and therefor not show it as being plugged in.
 
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willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
I've ordered one of these guys. Let me get a hold of it and see what's up.

But as far as the device goes you will not see the device if it only has the power leads for connection which this will since it never interacts with a PC. So of the four wires it only has ground and positive so the PC will never register it and therefor not show it as being plugged in.

Um.... for firmware updates... my memory is hazy... but isn't that by USB?
Wouldn't then the data pins necessarily be connected for firmware update via USB?
COOL! What did you get?!?
I love how these liveviews are like $15 on ebay. I've bought several and donated/loaned to the local hackerspace until mine breaks. :)
 

reddragon72

Senior Member
May 28, 2008
1,384
296
Houston, because I have a problem
Um.... for firmware updates... my memory is hazy... but isn't that by USB?
Wouldn't then the data pins necessarily be connected for firmware update via USB?
COOL! What did you get?!?
I love how these liveviews are like $15 on ebay. I've bought several and donated/loaned to the local hackerspace until mine breaks. :)

I remember reading that the firmware is updated VIA bluetooth. I have not seen any windows program that you need to download to update the firmware on the device but did see that people mentioned the new firmware is uploaded when you install the new android app from the play store.
 

willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
Firmware update done via usb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljqm4XRigcU

Just found this - the guy is using two of my preferred 2V flexible solar panels in series for 4V then to the boost converter voltage regulator I wanted to use to get to 5V to charge his phone.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-charger-for-mobile-phone-3-ways/
I'm planning on using only one and a voltage regulator that will accept the 2V solar output.

I'm noticing that the liveview battery life is very short when you actually use the liveview with screen on and BT radio on.
It may last all day on your wrist (but only if it's not used very frequently) :)
This watchband may be badass! It's certainly going to be thick like those hipster leather wristbands... but it's a fricking solar panel!
I'm feeling stoked. Can't wait for this to get here.
 

willfck4beer

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2007
254
42
Solar charger wrist band working on smartwatch1! They are going to have to build their own for smart watch 2 as I believe it's proprietary connection.
Best news ever just hit... sony opens up dev on smartwatches home brew friendly behavior? Hell yeah sony! This is such a relief, if this is the new Sony, I'm getting ps4 bitches! The boycott is over!
 

nunoacruz

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
60
14
Leiria
Hi guys! I've got a Liveview and a Xperia Arc S, i've instaaled a new rom Viper V6.0 and now the Missed calls, sms text, calendar etc don't work. it shows a cross above the icon when I try to entre them. Can anyone help me?? I've been looking for a way to change the defalt apps, but I didn't figure out a way to do it
 

narflynn619

Senior Member
May 25, 2011
1,261
251
On board Nebuchadnezzar.
How's youe LV's battery life? Mine lasts only for 7 hours from pairing to total drain, with minimal notifs and no social app syncing. I only use my LV for missed calls, SMSs, and music control. It has been like this since I bought it 14 months ago.

Is there anything I can do to improve its battery life?

PS, it doesn't have disconnection problems from pairing to draining, so it's not possibly the reason for its rather short battery life.
 

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    Hey I've got LiveView so I can tell you some about it. Price is very low but quality is very low too. Twiter, Facebook is not working (you can't log in). Music control works good. Call/SMS notifications works nice. I haven't any connections problem with Xperia x8. There are some sports trackers for example: SportyPal PRO or Microtracks (app for Google's My Tracks).
    (with the latest update and without connecting it to the phone)
    Hymm It can't even display time without connecting ;p. If you connect and disconnect it works only as a clock and showing right time (no any other functions) but if you just turn on it without connecting it shows only 0:00.
    1
    I'm using microtracks and it shows distance, speed, time etc. I don't think there is usable plugin which shows map. Calendar: there is a calendar plugin but it in not working for me. WhatsApp: I have never used it but there is something about this app https://play.google.com/store/apps/...icsson.extras.liveview.plugins.customnotifier here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=24009063&postcount=17
    And did it slip of the wrist strap while as a watch?
    Not much but this strap isn't the best but you can use any watch's strap which width is 20 mm.
    1
    Is there any way to use it as a mouse

    I need to control my computer through bluetooth, so I wonder if there is any way to use this watch as a bluetooth mouse. If not, please advice me about it. Thanks in advance.
    1
    Can you turn the watch's bluetooth off, and continue using it as a watch?
    Not being able to do so is a dealbreaker for me, it's far cheaper than the pebble :(

    Sort of. When you connect to your phone with the LiveView, and then disconnect, the time will still be displayed on the LiveView. However, once you restart the LiveView, the time will disappear until the next time you reconnect with your phone

    Sent from my LT29i using xda premium
    1
    Could use some advice.
    This thing has a TINY battery and doesn't use that much power.
    As a watch mode it's in the light all the time.
    ebay has:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerFilm-M...162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4172b2bb12

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerFilm-F...00918136469?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item2ec7a77695

    and my favorite

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thin-Film-F...489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a81313771

    for dirt cheap that puts out decent charge ... anyone have any ideas how to fashion one of these into a watchstrap?
    Perhaps solder on a male micro usb that will couple to liveview on that side and then a regular watch pin on the other side.
    Wouldn't this generate enough energy to never have to plug in and allow unlimited use?
    50ma * 8hours a day??? for a 100mah battery?
    Am I missing something here?
    The only issue I see is the voltage... usb needs 5V +/- .25ish?
    Would one use a voltage regulator?
    Any input greatly appreciated. I'm more software than EE.
    Thanks,
    Frank

    None of those will work. 5V or nothing.

    I have tried a few of those on other USB powered devices and they never work. You would need two of them hooked up in series and that will give you 6V low amperage. Once you hook it to the device the voltage will essentially drop to 5.5V which is a outside the safe margin but a small chance of working.

    Good luck.
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