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LSPosed Xposed Framework [8.0-12.0]. Simple Magisk Module, EdXposed Alternative.

What Xppsed Framework are You Using??


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XTrail02

Member
Sep 3, 2020
45
6
I haven't seen a banking app that does check deposits via mobile web. If there is one (US-based), please share what it is.
I'm not sure what you mean. It's just the bank's website where one can log in and make transactions, such as paying or transferring funds or just checking transactions. My bank accounts and credit cards all have their own website, at least here in Australia.

Because some banking apps detect root even with magisk hide and consequently don't work, the alternative is to use their website to do transactions.
 
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HippoMan

Senior Member
May 5, 2009
1,737
587
Hippoland
I'm not sure what you mean. It's just the bank's website where one can log in and make transactions, such as paying or transferring funds or just checking transactions. My bank accounts and credit cards all have their own website, at least here in Australia.

Because some banking apps detect root even with magisk hide and consequently don't work, the alternative is to use their website to do transactions.

Yes! And that works fine with my bank. I downloaded a secondary browser to my Android device and set its User Agent string to "desktop". I use that browser for accessing my bank. I also changed the home page of that browser to be the bank's home page, and I even overrode that browser's desktop icon with the same icon that my bank's Android banking app uses, so it even looks like the standard banking app. I can perform any and all banking transactions via that web-based connection to my bank.

<opinionated-rant>

This whole thing about banks preventing rooted Android devices from performing certain functions is silly at best and (IMHO) massively stupid at worst. Our desktop machines (Windows, Linux, and Mac) are all "rooted" in the same way that Android can be rooted. In other words, on our desktop computers, we can (1) switch to "root" or "Administrator" any time we want, and (2) run programs in a rooted fashion via "sudo" or similar OS-specific software. Banks do not prevent us from accessing web-based banking functions via our "rooted" desktop computers, and so in my opinion, it makes no sense whatsoever for them to cripple their banking applications on "rooted" handheld devices. And actually, many more desktop computers get routinely hacked than hand-held devices, and banks don't seem to care at all, at least with regard to the use of their web-based banking software.

And as is discussed above, the banks can't stop us from fully accessing their banking software via web access on our Android devices -- including rooted devices -- and so whatever imagined security they want to have on handheld devices is non-existent.

Furthermore, I carry debit and credit cards in my wallet. Anyone could steal my wallet and thereby have the opportunity to hack my CC or bank accounts. Also, the businesses in which I use my debit or credit cards for purchases could have unscrupulous employees who steal the card numbers. My banks do not try to stop me from using debit or credit cards, even though they are even less secure than using a rooted Android device.

Therefore, the main result of crippled banking apps on rooted devices simply is more headaches for the users.

</opinionated-rant>
 
Last edited:
After I activate xprivacylua module and restart I can't get past my lock screen. I've cleared the lock screen security but it takes a reboot to safe mode to disable modules then another restart to be able to get into my phone. It's like it's got some weird sleep setting I'll go to unlock my screen with a swipe and my screen will shut off. Then turn back on. Anyone have any ideas? I'm on a moto g stylus evolution rom
 

digger16309

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
406
138
OnePlus 5
Google Pixel 5
I'm not sure what you mean. It's just the bank's website where one can log in and make transactions
In the US, I've not seen a mobile web interface for a bank that allows one to deposit checks. So sure, you can do other tasks via mobile web, but if you want to deposit a check, you have to use the app. If the app detects root, then you can't deposit checks. So it's not as simple as just skipping the app and using mobile web.
 

Fif_

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,147
1,209
Google Nexus 10
Google Nexus 4
I was considering that until I made an Automate flow to automatically add newly installed apps to select Xposed modules' scope.
By popular request, this is my setup for automatically adding newly installed packages to some user-defined LSPosed scopes.

[EDIT:] These instructions and the zip file have been updated on November 14, 2021.

Requirements:
Caveats:
  • LSPosed won't pick up the changes until the device is rebooted.
Instructions:
  1. Unzip the attached LSPosed-Auto-Add.zip
  2. Create the /sdcard/usr/bin directories.
  3. Move lsposed-scopes-add from step 1 file to /sdcard/usr/bin. The file full path must be /sdcard/usr/bin/lsposed-scopes-add
  4. Move xposed-modules-status from step 1 file to /sdcard/usr/bin. The file full path must be /sdcard/usr/bin/xposed-modules-status
  5. Import LSPosed Auto Add.flo in Automate.
  6. After the flow is imported, grant all needed permissions.
  7. In the imported flow, start Configure. You should see a list of active LSPosed modules like the one seen on the attached screenshot.
  8. Toggle the modules as needed. If shown with a check mark, any newly added package will be added to the module's scope.
  9. Press Cancel to exit from the module list.
  10. Make sure that Automate is set to start at boot (in Automate settings).
There should be two automate fibers running in the flow. If it stops for whatever reason, just start the Init flow.
You can add and remove modules at any time by launching the Configure flow.

Changes:
  • 2021-11-01: Provide missing script.
  • 2021-11-08: Force running scripts in / in Automate flow.
  • 2021-11-14: Also support parasitic manager.
Thanks to @Open.Orange and @spawnlives for testing.
 

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@Fif_
Excuse me, I'm a newbie here
I've a problem here,
I give all privileges but it generated the following error logs when I click "START-Configure" within the flow.

Sqlite3 and bash binary environment has been completed...but I've no idea why...

Code:
10-31 14:30:23.387 I [email protected]: Flow beginning
10-31 14:30:23.388 I [email protected]: Flow start
10-31 14:30:23.399 I [email protected]: Fiber stopped?
10-31 14:30:23.406 I [email protected]: Flow beginning
10-31 14:30:23.406 I [email protected]: Failure catch
10-31 14:30:23.407 I [email protected]: Flow start
10-31 14:30:23.408 F [email protected]: java.lang.IllegalStateException: Parallel launch not allowed
10-31 14:30:23.415 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.416 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.417 I [email protected]: Stopped at end
10-31 14:30:23.430 I [email protected]: Atomic load
10-31 14:30:23.432 I [email protected]: File read text
10-31 14:30:23.439 I [email protected]: Variable set
10-31 14:30:23.440 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.440 I [email protected]: Failure catch
10-31 14:30:23.441 I [email protected]: Shell command superuser
10-31 14:30:23.513 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.513 U [email protected]: "Retrieval of LSP modules failed with exit code 127 and said "/system/bin/sh: <stdin>[4]: bash: inaccessible or not found".
10-31 14:30:23.514 I [email protected]: Flow stop
10-31 14:30:23.521 I [email protected]: Stopped at end
 

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Fif_

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,147
1,209
Google Nexus 10
Google Nexus 4
@Fif_
Excuse me, I'm a newbie here
I've a problem here,
I give all privileges but it generated the following error logs when I click "START-Configure" within the flow.

Sqlite3 and bash binary environment has been completed...but I've no idea why...

Code:
10-31 14:30:23.387 I [email protected]: Flow beginning
10-31 14:30:23.388 I [email protected]: Flow start
10-31 14:30:23.399 I [email protected]: Fiber stopped?
10-31 14:30:23.406 I [email protected]: Flow beginning
10-31 14:30:23.406 I [email protected]: Failure catch
10-31 14:30:23.407 I [email protected]: Flow start
10-31 14:30:23.408 F [email protected]: java.lang.IllegalStateException: Parallel launch not allowed
10-31 14:30:23.415 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.416 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.417 I [email protected]: Stopped at end
10-31 14:30:23.430 I [email protected]: Atomic load
10-31 14:30:23.432 I [email protected]: File read text
10-31 14:30:23.439 I [email protected]: Variable set
10-31 14:30:23.440 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.440 I [email protected]: Failure catch
10-31 14:30:23.441 I [email protected]: Shell command superuser
10-31 14:30:23.513 I [email protected]: Expression true?
10-31 14:30:23.513 U [email protected]: "Retrieval of LSP modules failed with exit code 127 and said "/system/bin/sh: <stdin>[4]: bash: inaccessible or not found".
10-31 14:30:23.514 I [email protected]: Flow stop
10-31 14:30:23.521 I [email protected]: Stopped at end
It looks like bash is not in your PATH:
Code:
Retrieval of LSP modules failed with exit code 127 and said "/system/bin/sh: <stdin>[4]: bash: inaccessible or not found".
Where are bash and sqlite3 installed?
 
**Update: Excuse me, this is my misunderstanding that I considered Busybux as Bash.
I've now installed "Bash For Android 3.5.2" (a magisk moudle) developed by Zackptg5, but the following logs generated.

Code:
10-31 16:44:42.197 U [email protected]: "Retrieval of LSP modules failed with exit code 127 and said "bash: /storage/emulated/0/usr/bin/xposed-modules-status: No such file or directory".

And I've installed "SQLite for ARM aarch64 devices" from Magisk.
My phone is ZS630KL(ZENFONE 6) which is S855 integrated.

Wried situations...I appreciate your great work :)
 
Last edited:

Fif_

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,147
1,209
Google Nexus 10
Google Nexus 4
**Update: Excuse me, this is my misunderstanding that I considered Busybux as Bash.
I've now installed "Bash For Android 3.5.2" (a magisk moudle) developed by Zackptg5, but the following logs generated.

Code:
10-31 16:44:42.197 U [email protected]: "Retrieval of LSP modules failed with exit code 127 and said "bash: /storage/emulated/0/usr/bin/xposed-modules-status: No such file or directory".

And I've installed "SQLite for ARM aarch64 devices" from Magisk.
My phone is ZS630KL(ZENFONE 6) which is S855 integrated.

Wried situations...I appreciate your great work :)
Sorry, my bad, there should be another script shipped in the zip file.
I'll update the post later, I don't have the time right now.
On a side note, this should have been obvious to anyone trying my method. I'm a bit disappointed that the peeps who pestered me via PM and other forums to publish it didn't even try it. ☹️

[Edit:] OP has been updated with the missing piece.
 
Last edited:

kurtn

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2017
4,241
1,842
Small town in Bavaria
How to debug "LSPosed is not currently installed or active." In lineageOS 19.0? The magisk modules riru-core an Riru - LSPosed say installed, but i had to install lsposed manager to see anything.
 

bluegrass55

Senior Member
Sep 29, 2011
595
80
London
By popular request, this is my setup for automatically adding newly installed packages to some user-defined LSPosed scopes.

[EDIT:] These instructions and the zip file have been updated on November 1, 2021.

Requirements:
Caveats:
  • LSPosed won't pick up the changes until the device is rebooted.
Instructions:
  1. Unzip the attached LSPosed-Auto-Add.zip
  2. Create the /sdcard/usr/bin directories.
  3. Move lsposed-scopes-add from step 1 file to /sdcard/usr/bin. The file full path must be /sdcard/usr/bin/lsposed-scopes-add
  4. Move xposed-modules-status from step 1 file to /sdcard/usr/bin. The file full path must be /sdcard/usr/bin/xposed-modules-status
  5. Import LSPosed Auto Add.flo in Automate.
  6. After the flow is imported, grant all needed permissions.
  7. In the imported flow, start Configure. You should see a list of active LSPosed modules like the one seen on the attached screenshot.
  8. Toggle the modules as needed. If shown with a check mark, any newly added package will be added to the module's scope.
  9. Press Cancel to exit from the module list.
  10. Make sure that Automate is set to start at boot (in Automate settings).
There should be two automate fibers running in the flow. If it stops for whatever reason, just start the Init flow.
You can add and remove modules at any time by launching the Configure flow.

Thanks to @Open.Orange for testing.
Apologies if this is a dumb question. How do I create the "/sdcard/usr/bin directories"?
I'm setting up a Pixel 6 device to enable use of Xprivacy Lua and getting no where ( need to read up more).
Thanks.
 

spawnlives

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2018
1,103
409
Samsung Galaxy S8
Samsung Galaxy S9
Apologies if this is a dumb question. How do I create the "/sdcard/usr/bin directories"?
I'm setting up a Pixel 6 device to enable use of Xprivacy Lua and getting no where ( need to read up more).
Thanks.
+1
@Fif_

Getting error code 0 - failed to read lsposed modules
Trying this on a Samsung S9 lineage 18.1 ( A11 )

Sorry if this a bit off topic
 

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Fif_

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,147
1,209
Google Nexus 10
Google Nexus 4
+1
@Fif_

Getting error code 0 - failed to read lsposed modules
Trying this on a Samsung S9 lineage 18.1 ( A11 )

Sorry if this a bit off topic
The shell on your device spits out:
shell-init: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: Math result not representable
job-working-directory: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: Math result not representable
when invoked. I'll see if I can work around this.
[EDIT:] OP has been updated with a new version fixing this issue.
 
Last edited:

bluegrass55

Senior Member
Sep 29, 2011
595
80
London
Lsposed works fine on my phone with XPrivacyLua. It blocks from apps information from the phone such as Device Fingerprint, Wifi name and MAC address, Network & Sim operator among other things, as shown on the blocking log.
For banking, I just use the browser to do bank transactions if the banking app doesn't work with root.
Could please explain how you got XPrivacy Lua to work with Lsposed. I'm using Pixel 6 on Android 12.

Installed these;
Magisk 23.01.3
Riru v26.1.3
lsposed v1.6.2

Activated Lua and to test if it was working in settings selected all user & system apps, but the apps still function as if there are no restrictions and there are no logs in Lua Pro. For example the camera works even though I've applied all restrictions.

Thanks.
 

Fif_

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,147
1,209
Google Nexus 10
Google Nexus 4
Could please explain how you got XPrivacy Lua to work with Lsposed. I'm using Pixel 6 on Android 12.

Installed these;
Magisk 23.01.3
Riru v26.1.3
lsposed v1.6.2

Activated Lua and to test if it was working in settings selected all user & system apps, but the apps still function as if there are no restrictions and there are no logs in Lua Pro. For example the camera works even though I've applied all restrictions.

Thanks.
Did you add all the apps to XPrivacyLua's scope in LSPosed? Apps that XPrivacyLua hooks must be in its scope.
By the way, hooking all system apps like you're trying to do is a bad idea and can cause bootloops. On top of that, it is not supported. Proceed with caution, one app at a time.
 

bluegrass55

Senior Member
Sep 29, 2011
595
80
London
Did you add all the apps to XPrivacyLua's scope in LSPosed? Apps that XPrivacyLua hooks must be in its scope.
By the way, hooking all system apps like you're trying to do is a bad idea and can cause bootloops. On top of that, it is not supported. Proceed with caution, one app at a time.
I was playing around the system apps to test if Xprivacy was working with my setup and because it didn't I assumed that the combination I was using was wrong. But as you say system apps are not supported.
Am I using the correct Magsik, Riru and Lsposed? The more I read about it on The Xprivacy Lua and Xposed froums the more I get confued.

On a side note thanks for your continued support of Hooks for Lua.
 

Fif_

Senior Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,147
1,209
Google Nexus 10
Google Nexus 4
I was playing around the system apps to test if Xprivacy was working with my setup and because it didn't I assumed that the combination I was using was wrong. But as you say system apps are not supported.
Am I using the correct Magsik, Riru and Lsposed? The more I read about it on The Xprivacy Lua and Xposed froums the more I get confued.

On a side note thanks for your continued support of Hooks for Lua.
I'm using the same versions as yours except for Magisk, where I use the stable 23.0.
 

Danmann

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2015
487
125
pwoss.org
Sorry, my bad, there should be another script shipped in the zip file.
I'll update the post later, I don't have the time right now.
On a side note, this should have been obvious to anyone trying my method. I'm a bit disappointed that the peeps who pestered me via PM and other forums to publish it didn't even try it. ☹️

[Edit:] OP has been updated with the missing piece.
Yeah, sorry! One of them is me. I'm fighting for more life time at the moment. I have it still in my head. I definitely give it a go once the fight is over.
 
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  • 5
    Magisk Canary v23014 released, with the following changelog:
    • Add module suspension state in Magisk app (riru/zygisk modules)
    As a result, Riru (and LSPosed) modules are in a suspended state, which makes them unusable. Currently using Riru v26.1.13 and LSPosed v1.6.3).
    Any new version of Riru and LSPosed that overcomes this challenge? Need them for USNF module and for continued usage of banking apps.
    Any help is appreciated, thanks! :)
    How about you stop updating Magisk.....go back to v23...problem solved. You are running into issues on a CANARY build guy....come on. Use what works. You're wlecome!
    3
    +1
    @Fif_

    Getting error code 0 - failed to read lsposed modules
    Trying this on a Samsung S9 lineage 18.1 ( A11 )

    Sorry if this a bit off topic
    The shell on your device spits out:
    shell-init: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: Math result not representable
    job-working-directory: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: Math result not representable
    when invoked. I'll see if I can work around this.
    [EDIT:] OP has been updated with a new version fixing this issue.
    2
    Any reports about using the latest LSPosed 1.6.3 with stable Magisk 23.0 and Riru?
    Stable here without any issues.
    2
    Probably the difference is I'm still using android 10 and you're on Android 12.

    For the camera, AFAIK XPivacyLua only restricts apps to determine the number of cameras the phone has, but it cannot stop the apps from activating the camera. I'm not sure with this though.
    On my Oneplus 5T on Android 9 the Lua restrictions on the camera work perefectly. The camera launches but the screen is black. When I want to use it I allow, use camera, sensors, record audio & video.

    On the Pixel 6 with A 12 with the same ristrictions the camera doesn't launch, even if you allow Lua permissions. You have to uninstall Magsik and go through the whole process again.
    2
    Weird. Is that new or always have been the case?
    I remember hitting this issue the very first time I installed LSPosed. Xposed modules weren't active until after a couple of reboots. Haven't seen it since.
    My issue is it drops my sim card, other then that everything else works as advertised. Been probably the last 3 releases.
  • 52
    Developers: LSPosed Developers
    Homepage: GitHub
    Requirements:
    • Magisk 21+
    • Android 8-11 [Android 12(experimental)]

    Riru
    Description: Riru module providing ART interception framework (natively for Android Pie) that provides consistent API -interfaces with OG Xposed, using YAHFA (or SandHook) interception environment, supports Android 8.0 ~ 11.
    & Installation:
    • Install Riru 23+
    • Install Riru - LSPosed via Magisk Manager
    Install LSPosed Manager app (Note: No Saparate App and Zip, App Will be Installed Automatically)
    • Reboot your device.

    Download:
    For stable release, please go to Github Release page For canary build use telegram.
    Go to second post for latest version Download

    Notes:
    I'm just sharing this from github, I'm not responsible if you bricked your device.

    GPay and other banking apps working fine without any issue so this xposed alternative is worth trying and safer.

    Note: If anyone facing bootloop issue, don't panic, hard reboot again and it will work.


    Screenshot:
    19
    Download:
    Flash zip file through magisk and then install LSPosed Manager app

    Update 1 March 2021
    V1.2.0

    V1.3.7 Updated 15.May.2021
    (Note: No Saparate App and Zip, App Will be Installed Automatically)

    Bump New Version v1.5.0 14.August.2021

    Android 12 Supported(Experimental)

    Changelog

    • Fix manager white screen
    • Support split-apk modules (LSPosed will choose only one apk with xposed_init to load)
    • Fix manager crash when launching an uninstalled module from notification
    • Load modules with SharedMemory (it can speedup app cold launch) 2
    • New manager icon
    • Fix incorrect update notification in the first installation
    • Fix some apps not showing in the scope list in some rare cases
    • Show notification of module uninstallation
    • Prevent modules from hooking inner methods (methods from XposedBridge's classloader)



    Note:

    Previously LSPosed only recognize modules from the primary user. However, this strategy is not good and leads to some problems: some modules require getting installed app lists for configuration but they cannot do so across users; some require reading themselves from the hooked apps but they cannot do so from non-primary users; some users want to configure modules differently on different users which is not feasible previously. Thus LSPosed now requires every module to be installed to the user on which the apps they want to hook are installed. Some devices restrict modules from installing onto some users. In such a case, you can install them from the manager (but it's recommended).

    1: For some weird devices that prevent installing apps from the root user, please install the manager from /data/adb/lspd/manager.apk or manager.apk from the zip file manually.

    2: Some modules get modules' apk path using reflection of its classloader, it's not recommended and unstable since the apk path from classloader no longer exists when using SharedMemory to load modules. Please use the documented way (from IXposedHookZygoteInit.StartupParam.modulePath) instead.
    14
    I have it working on the Poco X3 NFC, running RR, loaded and runs without issue, I used the YAHFA option, has updated without issue.

    Thought I should add that I can't get SafetyNet on, but I've never been worried about that, I think I've only ever had it working once on one of my devices years ago. The one app that refused to play nice I just used MagiskHide on, and it's not a problem now.

    In saying that I only have one module loaded, I haven't had time to go looking for the below answers, to install any others.

    The only thing I haven't figured out yet is what apps need to be picked with what modules, sure some are obvious as they are named after the apps, but is there anything else that needs to be picked with them? For example, do I need to pick the framework app with everything, I'm sure I don't, but how do I know?
    I'm using YAHFA myself, even though I was using SandHook earlier with EdXposed. Also, I'm passing SafetyNet without an issue and Play Store shows certified as well, so that's nice.

    Coming to your question about "scope", basically for a module, you have to select the apps that are hooked by the module. This is pretty straightforward for modules that hook a specific app, for example, if you're using WATweaker, you have to select WhatsApp in its "scope". Similarly, another example, if you're using Instaprefs, you have to select Instagram in its "scope". However, for more systemwide module (like GravityBox, for example), multiple apps have to be selected in the "scope" as the module is more global in nature, so to speak.

    The only way to figure out which apps need to be added in scope for a module is to ask the module developer or by trial and error. Taking GravityBox as an example, you'll find the list of apps that need to be selected for its scope in the first post of its thread (under apps that need to be whitelisted; "whitelisted" term being used in context of EdXposed, since when the post was written, LSPosed wasn't a thing).

    Also, modules can auto-add recommended apps to their scope, but the responsibility of making that happen lies with the module developer. Once again, taking GravityBox as the example, if you install GravityBox in LSPosed, you don't have to select apps manually in its scope. They're auto-selected since the developer has added support for LSPosed and auto-selection of scope apps.

    I know the reply is long-ish, but I hope it helps you and the others who had similar questions. :)
    13
    Why it's safer than EdXposed?
    I didn't say it's safer than edxposed. I meant xposed alternatives like taichi etc.
    All banking apps works, no system slowdown, i got more free ram etc.
    In edxposed the hooked apps take time to open, no such issue with LSPosed.
    That's why i thought it's worth trying and safer.
    13
    I was considering that until I made an Automate flow to automatically add newly installed apps to select Xposed modules' scope.
    By popular request, this is my setup for automatically adding newly installed packages to some user-defined LSPosed scopes.

    [EDIT:] These instructions and the zip file have been updated on November 14, 2021.

    Requirements:
    Caveats:
    • LSPosed won't pick up the changes until the device is rebooted.
    Instructions:
    1. Unzip the attached LSPosed-Auto-Add.zip
    2. Create the /sdcard/usr/bin directories.
    3. Move lsposed-scopes-add from step 1 file to /sdcard/usr/bin. The file full path must be /sdcard/usr/bin/lsposed-scopes-add
    4. Move xposed-modules-status from step 1 file to /sdcard/usr/bin. The file full path must be /sdcard/usr/bin/xposed-modules-status
    5. Import LSPosed Auto Add.flo in Automate.
    6. After the flow is imported, grant all needed permissions.
    7. In the imported flow, start Configure. You should see a list of active LSPosed modules like the one seen on the attached screenshot.
    8. Toggle the modules as needed. If shown with a check mark, any newly added package will be added to the module's scope.
    9. Press Cancel to exit from the module list.
    10. Make sure that Automate is set to start at boot (in Automate settings).
    There should be two automate fibers running in the flow. If it stops for whatever reason, just start the Init flow.
    You can add and remove modules at any time by launching the Configure flow.

    Changes:
    • 2021-11-01: Provide missing script.
    • 2021-11-08: Force running scripts in / in Automate flow.
    • 2021-11-14: Also support parasitic manager.
    Thanks to @Open.Orange and @spawnlives for testing.