(Mcgyver: FIXED) MB525 BL7 and Battery: Ongoing

[rockmonkey1973]

ok long story short. never flashed a kernal before but i decided to try cm10 and went with the gingerbread build and so i flashed the kernal and cm10 compatible rom. it wasnt running very well so i flashed back to the froyo kernal and the compatible cm10 rom.

all was ok but i wanted to go back to cm7 because the phone was considerably faster and so...

today tried to restore one of my cm7 kang back ups from recovery and the phone died. i think what happened is i got mixed up with the back ups and i must have restored the gingerbread cm10 first and without realiszing it flashed the cm7 with a froyo kernal and bang we have a dead phone. it simply wouldnt boot past the google lettering and so when i got home i decided to flash a full sbf and start from scratch however when i tired i got the dreaded battery low error so i followed this

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=892026

and it worked but rsd lite didnt show my phone. there was simply nothing there when i started it. all very annoying so i uninstalled everything and by the time i started again i got the message battery low.

so my question is can mcgyver work if the battery is actually really low say 10-20 per cent or less?

is it worth buying a new fully charged battery and using that?

why wouldnt rsd lite recognize my phone?

is there anyway to charge the battery when it is like this?

nb. i am running windows 7 sp1 and have installed the latest drivers and rsd lite am my phone is a moto defy m525 red lense.

all very annoying and in five years of rooting and flashing i have never been in a situation where i couldnt recover it. too be honest i have been here before with the defy but i had a spare battery and a proper wall charger and so that was problem solved but i dont own them anymore and i am now not sure/ cant remember if a simple full battery will help hence the questions.

 

[neo.ank]

In theory it should work. You are supplying the terminals with the intended 5V and a ground.

However it is recommended to charge your battery, use an external battery charger and then flash the SBF. Its hell of a risk trying to flash SBF with low battery. The phone may actually brick with no way to restore it.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

it is strange but using the mcgyver method i can get the bootloader ready to program i simply cant get rsd lite to see my phone and neither does windows. there are loads of posts and threads on this but not many (none actually when the situation i am is mentioned) offer a solution.

so i have ordered a new battery which will hopefully arrive tomorrow and i will see how we get on from there.

 

[hackergnome]

it is strange but using the mcgyver method i can get the bootloader ready to program i simply cant get rsd lite to see my phone and neither does windows. there are loads of posts and threads on this but not many (none actually when the situation i am is mentioned) offer a solution.

so i have ordered a new battery which will hopefully arrive tomorrow and i will see how we get on from there.

do u have blank flash mode enabled in rsd?
does defy show up in device manager?
try switching usb ports

Sent from my MB526 using xda premium

 

[rockmonkey1973]

d
try switching usb ports

Sent from my MB526 using xda premium

doh!

amazing i simply used another cable and usb port and then i had to unplug it and plug it again and drivers started to be installed. (i had already installed motos drivers but hey windows wanted more!).

i also went back to the older 4.9 version of rsd lite. it has been a long long time since i have had to do this. installing nordic and will try and install one of my other back ups. all should be well very soon fingers crossed.

looks like the spare battery i bought will be going back then. oh well.

cheers mate your post prompted me to try again and just tinker and it worked so appreciate that.

edit: seems a bit stuck and i am now a little unsure what to do. the android bootscreen is stuck and rsd lite is saying maually power up this phone. i am a little concerned because it is still saying in process even though it has flashed the sbf. i have tried turning it off and nothing happens. it looks like i am actually going to have to unplug the cables remove the mgyver wires and take out the battery and boot it.

bollox. it is dead again so i have to start again. trying a different sbf this time. not sure what happened there. maybe i was too impatient?

honestly not sure what is happening here. i have tried a standard blurred sbf 2.2 and the phone is now stuck on the m animation and rsd lite iks omce again saying manually start this phone. what in the world do i do next?

ah god i will have to do some more reading because it is ****ed. i now have a white light and black screen. rsd lite just remained stuck at 100 per cent in process and manually boot your phone. have tried it three times and that is all i get. not sure if it is because i am flashing froyo sbfs when i have had a 2.3 kernal on the device? it is why i have avoided flashing them in the first place and the first time i ever do bang i get a bricked phone when i try to restore it back to cm7. the phone came with 2.1 so should i be flashing them?

very boring and very very annoying.

getting quite tired of this little game and am on the brink of buying another phone.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

ok i have a red lense defy and after much reading i have realised that i must be flashing the wrong sbfs now call me stupid but i actually am very confused about which one i need to flash.

i started on 2.1 originally then i flashed 2.2 and then stuck cm7 on the phone with a froyo kernal. however when i upgraded to cm10 i tried the 2.3 kernal.

so with this background in mind will this work???

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1595013

can i follow this to flash the sbf and get root?

or is there another sbf i need to flash. all i need to be able to do is root the phone and install cwm and then i can flash one of my back ups (properly this time).

 

[neo.ank]

ok i have a red lense defy and after much reading i have realised that i must be flashing the wrong sbfs now call me stupid but i actually am very confused about which one i need to flash.

i started on 2.1 originally then i flashed 2.2 and then stuck cm7 on the phone with a froyo kernal. however when i upgraded to cm10 i tried the 2.3 kernal.

so with this background in mind will this work???

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1595013

can i follow this to flash the sbf and get root?

or is there another sbf i need to flash. all i need to be able to do is root the phone and install cwm and then i can flash one of my back ups (properly this time).

Thats for BL7.. Some Defy+ with 2.3.6 were BL7. You definitely don't need to flash it..

Just flash the last SBF that worked for you..

 

[rockmonkey1973]

Thats for BL7.. Some Defy+ with 2.3.6 were BL7. You definitely don't need to flash it..

Just flash the last SBF that worked for you..

yes mate i did the last sbf i flashed over a year ago was nordic and i got the error as listed above. have no idea what i am doing wrong but i must be doing something. trouble is the new battery has arrived and i have already tried a new sbf and still getting the same problem... manually need to reboot the phone.

bit worrying because obviously i will only have a certain number of tries before this new battery dies on me.

edit: absolutely annoying. part of the problem with the guides on here are that they are mostly incomplete. they dont actually tell you everything you need to do. take for instance this the guide for unbricking

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1828639

it is totally useless because what he fails to mention is that

to boot into stock recovery you need to hold down the volume button when you power on the phone and you will get a droid with an exclamation mark and then you need to hold down both the volume up and down buttons which after a few seconds will take you to stock recovery. then you can wipe cache etc and the phone will boot. i found this out here (notice how people are telling the guy to simply flash a new sbf!)

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1608812

the mad thing is if i had found that simple post just above and knew about the up and down volume buttons i would have fixed the defy on the very first try. that is what is so annoying about this situation.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

ok

red lense defy.

long story short i flashed one of the bl7 defy plus gingerbread sbfs.

so i have gone through the root procedure by installing the rooted sbf in rsd lite and then i can install 2nd init 2.0.3 and can get a custom recovery installed.

but every time i try to install cm7.2 euro skank it reverts back to the bootloader. here is what i have done twice in recovery with the exact same result.

wipe cache, data, dalvik and battery stats/ flash cm7 froyo kernal/ then flash the rom/ then flash gapps and then wipe again and then reboot.

when the phone starts again i am once again back to the bootloader and i have to start all over again.

so a very simple question from the position i am in what exactly do i need to do to get cm7 running on the phone.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

double post but there are worse crimes!

ok so i have realised that i am stuck on the gingerbread kernal and that any froyo based rom is not gonna work.

wow how did i end up here! bloody hell that is what happens when you start getting ****ed off with the phone not doing what you think it should. anyways it is done now and i have cm7 all up and running and have even been able to make a back up so that if anything happens in the future when i am experimenting then i have a decent base from which to start. everything is working including the camera data wifi calls and well everything except...

i have one all rather serious problem that i really need to get sorted (this is it if i can fix this then i can leave the phone alone).

my battery is not recognized. now the phone runs on the battery which is a big step up from before where i was literally having to leave it plugged in just to keep it on. but the battery icon at the top is displaying a question markn and i dont know if it is charging or not. i also have no idea how much battery is left.

i have flashed both the defy red lense ics battery zip and the defy plus battery fix and i wiped cache dalvik and battery stats before i flashed them and the cache after but neither of these worked.

anyone actually care to help out here. what do i need to do to get my battery recognized? seriously if you know then please share because i have wasted a day and a half on this and through sheer frustration dug myself into a huge hole and it took ages to climb out.

all i am asking for is a bit of guidance from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. if that sounds like you do me a favour and simply tell me what i should do because i am now totally and utterly stumped.

cheers.

 

[neo.ank]

yes mate i did the last sbf i flashed over a year ago was nordic and i got the error as listed above. have no idea what i am doing wrong but i must be doing something. trouble is the new battery has arrived and i have already tried a new sbf and still getting the same problem... manually need to reboot the phone.

bit worrying because obviously i will only have a certain number of tries before this new battery dies on me.

edit: absolutely annoying. part of the problem with the guides on here are that they are mostly incomplete. they dont actually tell you everything you need to do. take for instance this the guide for unbricking

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1828639

it is totally useless because what he fails to mention is that

to boot into stock recovery you need to hold down the volume button when you power on the phone and you will get a droid with an exclamation mark and then you need to hold down both the volume up and down buttons which after a few seconds will take you to stock recovery. then you can wipe cache etc and the phone will boot. i found this out here (notice how people are telling the guy to simply flash a new sbf!)

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1608812

the mad thing is if i had found that simple post just above and knew about the up and down volume buttons i would have fixed the defy on the very first try. that is what is so annoying about this situation.

double post but there are worse crimes!

ok so i have realised that i am stuck on the gingerbread kernal and that any froyo based rom is not gonna work.

wow how did i end up here! bloody hell that is what happens when you start getting ****ed off with the phone not doing what you think it should. anyways it is done now and i have cm7 all up and running and have even been able to make a back up so that if anything happens in the future when i am experimenting then i have a decent base from which to start. everything is working including the camera data wifi calls and well everything except...

i have one all rather serious problem that i really need to get sorted (this is it if i can fix this then i can leave the phone alone).

my battery is not recognized. now the phone runs on the battery which is a big step up from before where i was literally having to leave it plugged in just to keep it on. but the battery icon at the top is displaying a question markn and i dont know if it is charging or not. i also have no idea how much battery is left.

i have flashed both the defy red lense ics battery zip and the defy plus battery fix and i wiped cache dalvik and battery stats before i flashed them and the cache after but neither of these worked.

anyone actually care to help out here. what do i need to do to get my battery recognized? seriously if you know then please share because i have wasted a day and a half on this and through sheer frustration dug myself into a huge hole and it took ages to climb out.

all i am asking for is a bit of guidance from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. if that sounds like you do me a favour and simply tell me what i should do because i am now totally and utterly stumped.

cheers.

First of all Stop whining about the guides being incomplete. They have helped a lot of people before you and are still helping.. If you mean every post should mention trivial stuff like booting into recovery and wiping data then just imagine the redundancy of the stuff.

If only you were patient enough to read before reacting. Defy Beginner's guide clearly mention 'bout booting into recovery & bootloader so its your folly for not collecting the info before processing..

anyone actually care to help out here. what do i need to do to get my battery recognized? seriously if you know then please share because i have wasted a day and a half on this and through sheer frustration dug myself into a huge hole and it took ages to climb out.

all i am asking for is a bit of guidance from someone who actually knows what they are talking about. if that sounds like you do me a favour and simply tell me what i should do because i am now totally and utterly stumped.

Don't know what you've wasted your day on, but all I can suggest is flash the battery fix for Defy+. Search for it. not difficult to find.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

First of all Stop whining about the guides being incomplete. They have helped a lot of people before you and are still helping.. If you mean every post should mention trivial stuff like booting into recovery and wiping data then just imagine the redundancy of the stuff.

If only you were patient enough to read before reacting. Defy Beginner's guide clearly mention 'bout booting into recovery & bootloader so its your folly for not collecting the info before processing..

whining! i didnt think i was whining although i can get annoyed and sometimes my frustration is vented without thinking. i accept that the phone being where it is is indeed my fault. in fact if i had just left it alone then it would have been running as well as it ever did. i am also a great advocate of the developers who spend there time providing us roms and tools for us to use and i can say hand on heart i appreciate the fine work they do often for free. i am also an avid reader of the guides being a simple bod with very little knowledge of flashing hacking and what not and they have saved my bacon more times than i care to remember over the last four or five years. and so you are spot on the guides help a lot... not just me but many before me and most likely many after and give us mere mortals the chance to stay current with firmware long after the manufacturer has abandoned the phone. so while i may have been complaining rather angrily i was not whining.

the fact is that guide is incomplete. not only is it incomplete but it is the one that is linked to on the wiki as the guide to follow on how to unbrick your phone.

if you are like me a tinkerer who every once in a while likes to try out a new rom and who doesnt know the every inner workings of the procedures and who needs to follow instructions then i think the least you can expect is for the definitive guide to be correct! i mean that isnt too much to ask for is it.

so yes i do expect them to list every basic important step one must follow to fix the phone because that is what instructions do they guide people who dont know what they are doing. that is there sole purpose and if they dont do that job then they should either be edited so they do or deleted.

and yes yesterday i was very annoyed at the fact that the guide i was following does not actually tell you exactly what one should do and i can promise you if it had of done then i would not be in the position i am in it is as simple as that. i mean you cant seriously expect people to think oh right these are the instructions for unbricking the phone but i bet you they aint right so i had better read some more instructions for the same thing... and hey they might not be complete as well so i had better read yet another set just in case. leave it out will you.

at the end of the day it doesnt matter and at the risk of repeating myself i know that if i had left well alone the phone would be fine so ultimately i have no one else to blame but myself. if i had been a little more patient and less stressed wondering why the phone wouldnt boot after what appeared to be a successful flash then i would have got there in the end without being stuck on a gingerbread kernal.

Don't know what you've wasted your day on, but all I can suggest is flash the battery fix for Defy+. Search for it. not difficult to find.

well if you had read through this thread then you may have seen i have wasted a day and a half on quite a lot of reading as it goes. you may have also seen that i have flashed 2 battery fixes and that they havent helped. so i am wondering if you know what else i could do to fix the problem? if you do and you dont mind telling me then i would be grateful. if you dont then no big deal... i will read through a few more threads and see if i cant get to the bottom of it.

EDIT: I have reread what i wrote and i take that back the guide is far from useless in fact it is excellent and i mean that. in every other way it is spot on and is the de facto guide to sorting yourself out of a hole. but it does miss out some vital information that (i think at least) really should be there. still water under the bridge and all that. we are were we are and one must move on. bottom line it is only a phone and if it comes to it i will buy another. the only reason i havent actually bought another so far is the buld quality and form factor of the defy is still yet to be bettered. but maybe it is a sign a message from above telling me to move on to pastures new.... although i would still like to fix the battery issue.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

ok it is fixed. as i was writing this reply i installed the white rabbit rom (which i read included red lense battery fixes). true to its word there are five downloadable files. i got four (one woudnt download) and rebooted the system and hey presto.

well what a difference a day and a decent nights kip make. and colour me impressed. this rom is a work of genius. i see it is based on euro kangs cm7 effort with a few nice (well actually loads) extras thrown in for good measure. have to say i am really liking it. calls data wifi camera and battery all work and it looks and feels swift and very polished.

so all is well that ends well. and what a journey. man all i wanted to do was restore cm7 from my back ups. flashing the gingerbread based cm10 before i did it i reckon screwed me and i didnt realise what i had done until after when it wouldnt boot. however xda saved the day as it always does (even if it did take me quite a lot time to get there this time round). i may even write a mini guide but then either no one would bother reading it or i would get loads of people whining at me telling me how it aint right so i think i will avoid that little task and leave it to people more brave and knowledgeable than i.

cheers all for the help in this thread, the time taken by others to write stuff down and the people who provide us with some great software for our ageing but still great phone.

 

[jalal-jap]

me to
pls help

 

[rockmonkey1973]

me to
pls help

if you need help mate then a little bit more info is gonna be required.

i will say this that i havent quite fixed it completely. i have the rom running sweet as a pie and the phone will work away from a power source but the battery percent/ icon remains locked at 100 per cent so i have no way of knowing if the phone is charging. when i plug it in to my laptop it says usb connected but again it doesnt list it as charging. so i have no way of knowing if the battery is actually getting charged or how much is really left.

i am also far from an expert more a bumbling old timer who rarely posts here unless desperate.

bear all that in mind and i will do all i can to help (provided you specifically say what you want help with)

edit: lmao... i couldnt have picked a worse sbf to flash. amazing. i have been so so careful in all the time i have owned this phone (over a year i reckon now) and i may have finally actually broken it.

i aint even certain i can charge the battery and once it runs down it will simply die. obviously there is hope that someone will come up with a downgrade method at some point in the future but for the time being i think the phone is ****ed.

i will try ics tomorrow and see if i can get any joy there but i think the only way i can now use the phone is to buy an external battery charger. funny really i used to own both a spare battery and a charger for this very reason and yet i sold them when i got rid of the old defy. so i am gonna have to buy one off ebay tomorrow and use it that way. at least then i will be able to use the phone.

 

[neo.ank]

if you need help mate then a little bit more info is gonna be required.

i will say this that i havent quite fixed it completely. i have the rom running sweet as a pie and the phone will work away from a power source but the battery percent/ icon remains locked at 100 per cent so i have no way of knowing if the phone is charging. when i plug it in to my laptop it says usb connected but again it doesnt list it as charging. so i have no way of knowing if the battery is actually getting charged or how much is really left.

i am also far from an expert more a bumbling old timer who rarely posts here unless desperate.

bear all that in mind and i will do all i can to help (provided you specifically say what you want help with)

edit: lmao... i couldnt have picked a worse sbf to flash. amazing. i have been so so careful in all the time i have owned this phone (over a year i reckon now) and i may have finally actually broken it.

i aint even certain i can charge the battery and once it runs down it will simply die. obviously there is hope that someone will come up with a downgrade method at some point in the future but for the time being i think the phone is ****ed.

i will try ics tomorrow and see if i can get any joy there but i think the only way i can now use the phone is to buy an external battery charger. funny really i used to own both a spare battery and a charger for this very reason and yet i sold them when i got rid of the old defy. so i am gonna have to buy one off ebay tomorrow and use it that way. at least then i will be able to use the phone.

You're on BL7 now and there's a reason people advise to avoid it. Most of the fixes and scripts doesn't work with BL7 including the battery fixes.
I'd suggest you to go for Quarx's build for GB kernel (along with the battery fix), Randomly flashing ROMs and fixes won't help.

Moreover, I strongly recommend you to search and read carefully. You're not the first one to face the problem, and there's a solution. Even if you waste(?) a couple of days reading 'bout it, it won't kill your phone, but if you do something out of desperation it might.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

Moreover, I strongly recommend you to search and read carefully. You're not the first one to face the problem, and there's a solution. Even if you waste(?) a couple of days reading 'bout it, it won't kill your phone, but if you do something out of desperation it might.

i take it you mean this like in retrospect? of course you are right a deep breath and a walk does wonders for a fuddled head and is far better than simply rushing into the next desperate attempt to repair. however it is easy to say this after the event yes!

the battery wont charge and if i flash another rom it gives me the big battery icon with question mark so i am once again stuck in a corner with no where to go. basically it is ****ed because none of the battery fixes work. the battery works when there is power in it but it just wont charge when in the phone. because the battery ran down last night the only way i can use my phone at the moment is tethered to the mcgyver trick.

so the plan is to buy a separate charger and use that to charge the battery. then i reckon i should be at least able use the phone (although this yet to be tested).

amazing seriously amazing. a year of owning this phone a year of flashing and hacking and being ultra conservative and then all it takes is a few minutes of madness and it is royally screwed. the crying shame about it is that i have installed the best rom i have ever seen in the white rabbit and if the external charger doesnt work i wont get to play with it! still live and learn.

edit: by the way do you know if the mcgyver trick actually charges the battery?

.

 

[neo.ank]

i take it you mean this like in retrospect? of course you are right a deep breath and a walk does wonders for a fuddled head and is far better than simply rushing into the next desperate attempt to repair. however it is easy to say this after the event yes!

the battery wont charge and if i flash another rom it gives me the big battery icon with question mark so i am once again stuck in a corner with no where to go. basically it is ****ed because none of the battery fixes work. the battery works when there is power in it but it just wont charge when in the phone. because the battery ran down last night the only way i can use my phone at the moment is tethered to the mcgyver trick.

so the plan is to buy a separate charger and use that to charge the battery. then i reckon i should be at least able use the phone (although this yet to be tested).

amazing seriously amazing. a year of owning this phone a year of flashing and hacking and being ultra conservative and then all it takes is a few minutes of madness and it is royally screwed. the crying shame about it is that i have installed the best rom i have ever seen in the white rabbit and if the external charger doesnt work i wont get to play with it! still live and learn.

edit: by the way do you know if the mcgyver trick actually charges the battery?

.

The battery fixes replace your battd.bin binary file which stores the info about the battery. Surprisingly there isn't a single binary that work with each phone, it acts weirdly and not sure what fix will work for a particular phone.. I again suggest you, every battery fix you find. You're not the first one to face the problem and its been sorted for many..

Mcgyver just supply the device with intended charge as the battery does. It doesn't charge the battery.

Don't know if you tried this one.
Defy Red Lens Battery Fix

 

[rockmonkey1973]

The battery fixes replace your battd.bin binary file which stores the info about the battery. Surprisingly there isn't a single binary that work with each phone, it acts weirdly and not sure what fix will work for a particular phone.. I again suggest you, every battery fix you find. You're not the first one to face the problem and its been sorted for many..

Mcgyver just supply the device with intended charge as the battery does. It doesn't charge the battery.

Don't know if you tried this one.
Defy Red Lens Battery Fix

i have tried it mate. i have also tired the ics defy red lense and the white rabbit rom had four of them available to download. none of them have worked. basically as it is now the phone will not stay on without the mcgyver leads and the battery wont charge. i have flashed 6 different battery fixes.

edit: it is strange once i have given it a blast on mcgyver for an hour or so i can then use the phone normally. however the battery is locked at 100 per cent and there is no indication it is charging when a usb lead is plugged in. seriously i have tried 6 of the fixes and none have actually worked.

if you are saying there is a fix for this then i would love to know what it is because i havent found one yet.

edit again!!!: ok this is strange because now when i plug it in to a usb lead the green light appears as if it was charging. very very strange this. i mean like really ****ing weird.

final edit: ok i am officially giving up. it has beaten me and for the first time ever i have got myself into a situation that i cant get out of. who would have thought a simple battery would be the cause of so much ****ing grief. anyway. for total clarity.

i am now running white rabbit rom runs great highly recommended and way quicker than the cm10 efforts that are being worked on at the moment. i have tried 6 battery fixes. none work. i am sometimes able to use the phone without being connected to the mcgyver leads but the battery remains locked at 100 per cent. other times the phone dies and the only way to boot it again is the mcgyver leads. if i do that then battery may change to say 25 per cent or even 75 per cent. basically it is all over the shot. i have tried to install another rom and this leads to the exact same thing. if i turn it on without the mcgyver leads i get the battery error. sometimes when connected to the usb port the phone has the led green light like it is charging then other times it doesnt. it is basically well and truly ****ed up.

so i am giving up. i have wasted quite enough time on a phone i have been thinking of changing as it is. i am gonna buy a sensation as a short term replacement. not as nice as the defy form wise but far faster and with a decent modding community so it will do for now. i will return here every now and then to see if someone comes up with a way to downgrade the bl7 but until that happens the phone is gonna gather dust in my drawer.

i think this thread serves as decent guide as to what shouldnt be done if you want to unbrick your phone (and also includes a few little things that may be missing elsewhere) so hopefully someone can learn from it. cheers all and see you later.

 

[rockmonkey1973]

ok well this is the end of this thread (unless i find a proper working solution).

i was unable to charge the phone unless i used the mcyver trick. basically the only way it would accept a charge was if the mcgyver leads were connected. however the battery would charge once the mcgyver leads were in place but stays locked at 100 per cent no matter what i do. it may be the rom i am using but every time i tried another i got the battery error.

i have now bought an external battery charger and spare battery. it works a treat. i simply use the charger to charge one battery and use the other battery to power the phone. when the battery dies i simply switch them around and use the phone as normal.

this way i am no longer having to boot the phone using mcgyver and the only thing i am missing is the ability to charge the battery internally or tell how much battery life is actually left.

so all told all is well that sort of ends well. at least i can carry on using the defy. i was looking at buying another phone but they are all either too big or too slippy/ fragile in the hand. the only one i would like to buy is the orange san diego but there is no root and even worse there is no sim unlock. so for the time being i will stick with the nearly indestructible defy and hope that moto see sense and release a four inch, 8mp onboard camera and better screen carbon copy. fingers crossed.