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MHL with USB OTG?

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Shikyo

Member
Apr 4, 2007
41
11
I think we still have a bit of a wait. What you found is essentially a USB OTG hub with some card readers built in. I seriously doubt this will pass through the pins for HDMI to work out of the usb port. We'll see something when this phone finally launches everywhere. It's not even out in the US officially yet :p
 

kynolin

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2007
126
17
St. Louis
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the article in the link in the OP. Man.. I might have to get me a GS3 now. I'm quite satisfied with the reasoning for a pin change. =)

Samsung sells 11 pin MHL adapters and USB female to Micro USB male adapters on their accessories page, but I'm not sure if you could piggy back the USB input into the charging port of the MHL cable. I don't see any all in one cables on their site, and the desktop dock is just micro usb/audio. I tried.. =(
Here's what I was looking at.

Old and mostly unrelated. See edit.
I happened to buy what looks exactly like that adapter today earlier at Micro Center. Now, I do have a Galaxy Nexus, but the USB OTG works great with keyboards/usb/mice/hubs; however, I cannot get it to simultaneously work with my MHL adapter. I understand the GS3 has a different pin layout though for MHL - my phone works with my MHL adapter correctly, but I didn't think it would have any change on the USB OTG. I'll most likely be breaking these apart and start tinkering. My goal is to show people how much of a full desktop-like experience I can provide from my phone, since so many people somehow think a GNex or GS3 are inferior to tablets, just because they're smaller... lol

Good luck finding information out on some kind of MHL/USB OTG setup. I'm just trying to provide any information I can from how my situation works with MHL/OTG, since I'm currently on the quest to achieve this myself.
 
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kthung

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2011
264
66
EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the article in the link in the OP. Man.. I might have to get me a GS3 now. I'm quite satisfied with the reasoning for a pin change. =)

Samsung sells 11 pin MHL adapters and USB female to Micro USB male adapters on their accessories page, but I'm not sure if you could piggy back the USB input into the charging port of the MHL cable. I don't see any all in one cables on their site, and the desktop dock is just micro usb/audio. I tried.. =(
Here's what I was looking at.

Old and mostly unrelated. See edit.
I happened to buy what looks exactly like that adapter today earlier at Micro Center. Now, I do have a Galaxy Nexus, but the USB OTG works great with keyboards/usb/mice/hubs; however, I cannot get it to simultaneously work with my MHL adapter. I understand the GS3 has a different pin layout though for MHL - my phone works with my MHL adapter correctly, but I didn't think it would have any change on the USB OTG. I'll most likely be breaking these apart and start tinkering. My goal is to show people how much of a full desktop-like experience I can provide from my phone, since so many people somehow think a GNex or GS3 are inferior to tablets, just because they're smaller... lol

Good luck finding information out on some kind of MHL/USB OTG setup. I'm just trying to provide any information I can from how my situation works with MHL/OTG, since I'm currently on the quest to achieve this myself.

I'm not really sure why people think they NEED MHL and USB OTG simultaneously to get a "desktop-like experience". You can already accomplish this with just a plain MHL cable and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse as was demonstrated in the Connectivity Demo video on youtube.

Edit: Actually I just remembered about portable hard drives. If you want to hook up a mouse, keyboard AND hard drive I wonder if you can plug all three into a powered USB hub connected to a bluetooth dongle. Hmm...
 
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v8bait

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2012
93
28
Houston, TX
I believe this is already capable. Everything I say here is purely speculative, but what I see is that Samsung moved to a 11-pin connector for MHL and the standard 5-pin is no longer functioning. To call it MHL, they probably have to use the same standards for data encoding... but they simply "moved" the pins.

I put "moved" in quotes because of the way in which a standard 4 pin USB cable works (or 5 pin for our case)... you have a +5V, Ground, Data + and Data - (one data to phone, one data from phone, carrying ALL data). Since our phones still sync via 5-pin cables, this means the 5 pins are still "hot" for data like all other phones. I am presuming, that for the 11-pin connector, Samsung simply added a few more data+ and data- connectors (much like having two or three USB ports on a normal computer) but consolidated the ground/5V reference. I could be wrong, but it would make sense.

Lets call the stock 5 pin data connectors (2 wires) USB1. This is where MHL is conventionally sent through and all sycing can be completed through, 5 pin cable or 11 pin cable. If samsung added two additional USB ports to the single connector, lets say MHL is now over USB2 (wires inaccessible to 5 pin connectors). This frees up bandwidth and COM ports on USB1 and USB3 to use for accessories like a USB hard drive and keyboard/mouse. On a 5 pin connector, however, only USB1 is accessible. The Samsung 11pin to 5pin MHL adapter simply moves the data+/- from USB2 to USB1 (standard 5 pin location), so with the adapter you are syncing/exporting video over USB2 on the phone with a standard 5pin cable.

My thinking is such: If you plug in the OEM 11pin MHL adapter, it will also have access to the standard 5pin USB1 connection. Since USB2 is used for MHL, you can then plug any OTG device into the micro USB connector on the MHL adapter to make use of it. The only problem here is power (or lack thereof). By plugging in a USB hub with a discrete power source, plugging this into the MHL adapter, and plugging in the USB device of choice into the HUB, you *SHOULD* be able to get simultaneous data and HDMI. This assumes they put the standard 5 pins to the connector on the side of the MHL adapter and only wired the HDMI to the USB2 area.

Alternatively, you *SHOULD* be able to plug the micro USB cable from the MHL adapter into a computer, and simultaneously be able to sync files while outputting HDMI video. It sort of just comes down to being able to provide power to the MHL adapter on the +5V pin while using the data pins to access the phone. As soon as I have my MHL I'll figure it out, but that could be a bit. If anybody has access to a pinout from a Samsung 11 pin micro USB that would be helpful too.

Again, just dreaming here. I don't know anything about this, but if I was the engineer at Samsung I would choose this over analog outputs like Apple used for their giant connector.
 
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faulkton

Senior Member
Jun 16, 2012
162
28
I'm not really sure why people think they NEED MHL and USB OTG simultaneously to get a "desktop-like experience". You can already accomplish this with just a plain MHL cable and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse as was demonstrated in the Connectivity Demo video on youtube.

Edit: Actually I just remembered about portable hard drives. If you want to hook up a mouse, keyboard AND hard drive I wonder if you can plug all three into a powered USB hub connected to a bluetooth dongle. Hmm...

for me at least i already have several keyboards and mice ... none are bluetooth.

I'm looking for the cheapest option available.
 

c4v3man

Senior Member
May 11, 2007
109
22
I'm just hoping someone releases a cable with 4 plugs:
Male MHL - To Phone Obviously
Female MicroUSB: To plug in charger
Female HDMI - To Display
Female USB - To USB Device

That's all I want... should cost less than $2 to make, just sell it for $20 and I'd be happy.
 

icarus78

New member
Nov 27, 2006
4
0
I believe this is already capable. Everything I say here is purely speculative, but what I see is that Samsung moved to a 11-pin connector for MHL and the standard 5-pin is no longer functioning. To call it MHL, they probably have to use the same standards for data encoding... but they simply "moved" the pins.

I put "moved" in quotes because of the way in which a standard 4 pin USB cable works (or 5 pin for our case)... you have a +5V, Ground, Data + and Data - (one data to phone, one data from phone, carrying ALL data). Since our phones still sync via 5-pin cables, this means the 5 pins are still "hot" for data like all other phones. I am presuming, that for the 11-pin connector, Samsung simply added a few more data+ and data- connectors (much like having two or three USB ports on a normal computer) but consolidated the ground/5V reference. I could be wrong, but it would make sense.

Lets call the stock 5 pin data connectors (2 wires) USB1. This is where MHL is conventionally sent through and all sycing can be completed through, 5 pin cable or 11 pin cable. If samsung added two additional USB ports to the single connector, lets say MHL is now over USB2 (wires inaccessible to 5 pin connectors). This frees up bandwidth and COM ports on USB1 and USB3 to use for accessories like a USB hard drive and keyboard/mouse. On a 5 pin connector, however, only USB1 is accessible. The Samsung 11pin to 5pin MHL adapter simply moves the data+/- from USB2 to USB1 (standard 5 pin location), so with the adapter you are syncing/exporting video over USB2 on the phone with a standard 5pin cable.

My thinking is such: If you plug in the OEM 11pin MHL adapter, it will also have access to the standard 5pin USB1 connection. Since USB2 is used for MHL, you can then plug any OTG device into the micro USB connector on the MHL adapter to make use of it. The only problem here is power (or lack thereof). By plugging in a USB hub with a discrete power source, plugging this into the MHL adapter, and plugging in the USB device of choice into the HUB, you *SHOULD* be able to get simultaneous data and HDMI. This assumes they put the standard 5 pins to the connector on the side of the MHL adapter and only wired the HDMI to the USB2 area.

Alternatively, you *SHOULD* be able to plug the micro USB cable from the MHL adapter into a computer, and simultaneously be able to sync files while outputting HDMI video. It sort of just comes down to being able to provide power to the MHL adapter on the +5V pin while using the data pins to access the phone. As soon as I have my MHL I'll figure it out, but that could be a bit. If anybody has access to a pinout from a Samsung 11 pin micro USB that would be helpful too.

Again, just dreaming here. I don't know anything about this, but if I was the engineer at Samsung I would choose this over analog outputs like Apple used for their giant connector.

hi v8bait, are you able to get data thru the micro usb port at the side of the 11-pin mhl adapter? i was thinking of using the motorola lapdock with my s3 thru the mhl adaptor (other then a micro hdmi male connector, the lapdock also has a micro usb male connector that apparently send out power as well as push keyboard/trackpad data upstream) - if it works, we can have an inexpensive "clambook" :)
 

romulusram

Member
Jun 21, 2012
31
2
Just to recap,

Will this we possible:

Official MHL adapter -> hdmi to monitor.
|
>OTG cable> Powered USB hub> USB keyboard & mouse.

In other words, the PC Experience with a keyboard and mouse.

Dont really want to spend the money to buy a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse when the USB ones can work just fine (theoretically).
 

macdroid01

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2011
141
19
Just to recap,

Will this we possible:

Official MHL adapter -> hdmi to monitor.
|
>OTG cable> Powered USB hub> USB keyboard & mouse.

In other words, the PC Experience with a keyboard and mouse.

Dont really want to spend the money to buy a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse when the USB ones can work just fine (theoretically).

I am also very interested in this exact thing. Using USB devices (multiple ones, e.g. plugging a powered USB hub into S III and then plugging them in) but also putting out S III video to HDMI.

However the other workaround is using AllShare Cast. In fact that is the route I'll likely go, because of the other unique advantages of AllShare Cast (i.e. using it for presentations to screens, etc.)

So: has anyone plugged a powered USB hub into S III and used multiple devices? Such as a keyboard and mouse?

I also want to use this S III more as a computer. the other perfect thing I wish I could buy would be a keyboard case, like the one available for iphone, so I can prop the S III up on a kickstand and use a real mini-QWERTY physical keyboard.
 

faulkton

Senior Member
Jun 16, 2012
162
28
I am also very interested in this exact thing. Using USB devices (multiple ones, e.g. plugging a powered USB hub into S III and then plugging them in) but also putting out S III video to HDMI.

However the other workaround is using AllShare Cast. In fact that is the route I'll likely go, because of the other unique advantages of AllShare Cast (i.e. using it for presentations to screens, etc.)

So: has anyone plugged a powered USB hub into S III and used multiple devices? Such as a keyboard and mouse?

I also want to use this S III more as a computer. the other perfect thing I wish I could buy would be a keyboard case, like the one available for iphone, so I can prop the S III up on a kickstand and use a real mini-QWERTY physical keyboard.

We're in the same boat; i want to use the s3 like a mini computer too. I think it'd be great for business travel, when i dont really need a laptop during the day but want something when i'm back in hotel room. I'd much rather use hotel TV instead of a laptop because that's what i am used to at home... pc hooked to TV.

I've been planning to use the allshare cast dongle too, but they dont seem to be available yet. I was thinking HDMI out with the allshare.. charging with the wireless charging kit and then keyboard and mouse with USB OTG. My logitech unifying receiver for keyboard/mouse works perfectly i just need the wireless charging and allshare dongle to be released.

For what it's worth I tried a powered USB hub and could not get it to work with the s3.
 

romulusram

Member
Jun 21, 2012
31
2
For what it's worth I tried a powered USB hub and could not get it to work with the s3.

Wait so your saying you tried a (a) powered USB hub with a OTG cable connected to the phone or you tried a (b) powered USB hub connected with a OTG cable to the MHL adapter and then to the phone?

If it was (a) then there are some vids out there of ppl using powered USB hubs.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 

astralmind

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2010
346
22
I'm puzzled that there aren't any more postings about this kind of stuff. I was expecting the GS3 to be easy to use as a "PC" replacement but it seems no one besides us few wanted to do that ? A simple cable should have done it but I'd even be willing to shell out 40-50$ for a decent dock that would do just that
 

perusmuro

Senior Member
Feb 19, 2011
101
6
So has anyone received their Official MHL adapater and tried USB OTG?

Very interested in this.,,:confused:

Me too.

But it is possible to get that this way working:
Code:
S3 -> Mobile Fun Connection Kit -> microusb -> HDTV Adapter TIP (5 to 11 Pin Converter) -> MHL HDMI adapter
                             |
                              -> USB -> keyboard etc.
Links
http://www.mobilefun.com/35462-mobile-fun-connection-kit-for-samsung-galaxy-s3.htm
http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones-accessories/EPL-FU10BEGSTA
 
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badbeat33

Member
Jun 20, 2012
40
2

scarrmrcc

Senior Member
Feb 7, 2011
373
84
Bellefonte, Pennsylvania
Maybe I'm not reading these posts correctly but I am using an usb keyboard and a usb mouse on my S3 with no problems using these two accessories:

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-USB-2-...e=UTF8&qid=1343845994&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+hub

http://www.amazon.com/Micro-USB-OTG...UTF8&qid=1343846045&sr=1-3&keywords=otg+cable

Have my keyboard and mouse plugged into the usb hub and then the usb hub into my usb OTG cable which of course plugs into the S3. Everything's working on my end.

You are not reading it right.

they want to use the MHL adapter, too.

As far as i can tell, the MHL adapter needs to be in the phone, not a hub. it is all dictated (the output being OTG, or MHL) by the impedance of what is plugged in. It is an either or situation.

Perhaps with a firmware update they MIGHT be able to run both signals and split it.. but i doubt it.
 

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  • 4
    Just got the OEM Sammy dongle MHL. Haven't had much time to give it a total once over, but here are the board images. Will check the resistance of the resistor on the 11 pin plug end. Have noticed that the micro USB in again only uses the power pins. May try a resistor mod (Change value to 40.2K which is supposed to be the smart dock enabler value) and splice a USB OTG in on the 11 pin MHL to see if in fact this works. Here are the images of the boards if anyone is interested, or would like to offer some feedback.


    201211282018191.jpg

    201211282024121.jpg

    201211282024011.jpg

    201211282023011.jpg

    201211282023371.jpg


    Cheers!
    4
    Is that really necessary? I am no expert, but I would think looking at the standard Samsung 11-5 pin MHL adapter would be enough. Stick an ohmmeter on each pin on one side and see which pin on the other side it is connected to.

    If the pins on the male side that would be needed to run USB OTG are not be connected to anything on the female side then we are in good shape, it should be possible to run the two in parallel. On the other hand there may be some specific pins that are connected to both (like the ID pin), which means there is probably something in the USB controller that detects whether USB, MHL, OTG, or some combination is being used, which means it might be harder without having an official Samsung version to reverse-engineer.

    I just got my 11pin to 5 pin converter... and have gotten it open.. bad news. there is a resistor from pin 4 to pin 5 in the USB plug part. That means that it may be hard to nearly impossible to get this to work.

    anyway, there is some interesting info:
    on the usb it uses:
    pin1=+5 volts
    pin5=ground
    pin4=resistor to ground (need to test to see what it is)

    on the 6 upper pins, it uses (starting from the right, if looking down at it) pins 2, 3 and 4. It looks like pins 1,5, and 6 are not doing anything.

    oddly, on the usb socket side, there seems to be 7 pins going into the connector.. i must research more.
    3
    ok.. think I am on to something!

    this cable:
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sam-sung-Gal...ultDomain_0&hash=item1e724db681#ht_4778wt_835

    has all 11 pins in the connector. they are all hooked to wires, but the pins are there.
    interestingly, not all the pins have wires at all....

    of the 5 usb, they have ground, power, and pin4 (of course)
    of the extra 6 they SEEM to have:
    pin6 to ground
    pin5 connected
    pin4 connected
    pin3 connected
    pin2 not connected
    pin1 not connected

    I broke the USB plug making sure everything was there (accidentally snapped 2 of the 6 pin part off.. so i need a new one)

    if we connect the cable like this (using the pinout from the last pic as reference points):
    mhladapterpinout2.png

    pin
    1 usb1 power
    2 usb2 data +
    3 usb3 data -
    4 usb4 40.2k OHM to ground
    5 usb5 ground
    6 mhl1 blank
    7 mhl2 blank
    8 mhl3 wire
    9 mhl4 wire
    10 mhl5 wire
    11 mhl6 ground

    we may just be in business!
    ordering a new cable as we speak.... since i broke my plug.
    2
    I'm just hoping someone releases a cable with 4 plugs:
    Male MHL - To Phone Obviously
    Female MicroUSB: To plug in charger
    Female HDMI - To Display
    Female USB - To USB Device

    That's all I want... should cost less than $2 to make, just sell it for $20 and I'd be happy.
    2
    I don't think harryville is talking about the same 5 pin adapter that you still keep referring to. There are no missing connections, and therefore no need for switching, in the correct 11 pin cable. Upgrade your cable and re-try your tests.

    ---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------



    Yes, finally someone else who can see why this should work! Please help to solve this issue...

    Just to clarify, using an 11 pin cable, half the connections should be dedicated to the HDMI output, and the other half should be dedicated to using USB OTG. I suspect the reason no one has gotten this to work is because no one has tested the correct setup using an MHL compliant HDMI port. These special ports provide power to the adapter and the phone, and so most likely, also the USB OTG port. So, once that is tested and established, it should be easy to figure out which HDMI port pin provides the power. We can then simply splice an HDMI cable to provide that power, thereby making this setup possible for a non-MHL-compliant HDTV.

    Surely there are more of you out there that see how this could work. My cable is on the way, so we shall see soon enough if this is a viable solution.

    that is the "switching" part I spoke of.
    pin4 of the USB is used to "turn on" MHL, and it is ALSO used to "turn on" OTG.

    that pin is the key, and the firmware is set to do different things depending on what it "sees" on that pin. as of now, no-one has found a resistance on that pin, that gives OTG and MHL. and that is why we need firmware/kernel guys in on this. the hardware is easy enough. I do think i might get an 11 pin, full fledged s3 MHL adapter, to tear apart next...