My thoughts against unthankful users.

[RacerXFD]

Just wanted to mention that all the users who attacked the devs have changed their tune since oem support is crap.

I've been holding my feeling against all the ignorant users who attacked the devs.

Thanks, that is all.

 

[phooky]

I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say, but I got the gist of it.

And I agree.

That is all.

 

[adrynalyne]

Translation:

All those who attacked the devs and coined them faildev.team are all of a sudden changing their tune now that they are speaking out about their projects, and OEM support has been so crappy.

Sad that people act like this.

 

[FDro]

I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.

 

[RacerXFD]

Thanks for the translation...

 

[adrynalyne]

I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.

People demand instant gratification, and when they do not get it, they get ugly because they think for some reason, they are owed everything. Then there is the jealousy factor. Then there are those who think the devs withhold stuff from the community.

Then there are those who just attack me because they can.

The android community is young, and due to it being user friendly, it attracts young folks. Some just happen to be very immature. It *should* get better with time.

 

[CNemo7539]

All this cool and dandy...

However developers also have some room to improve situation on the forums.
As adrynalyne pointed here there is a lot of childish behavior here. But developers, being leaders of community, not always behave as such.

I understand all sorts of emotions etc. I personally fall victim of them... Sorry if I hurted somebodys feelings.

But, I cannot stand some sort of elitism growing here.

Devs, please do not threat rest of the crowd as a bunch of morons! It will reflect positively on you as well.

If you have time to read all crappy posts on the forums and post aggravated responses, why do not spend this time typing meaningful response, holding grain of knowledge? If not, just stay calm and do not feed flame.

I do not want to repeat myself again and again. Just want to see some professionalism and respect in forums. It's not going to help moving to IRC, twitter or whatever. Root cause must be resolved.

Personally I was really impressed, more by anything else, of adrynalyne responding to that guy posted leak on other forums. Seriously! It was so different from how I percept him at forum. Like completely different person.

Respect!

 

[adrynalyne]

While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

 

[DarthCivicus]

I dont undestand why anyone would attack the developers. They aren't obligated to do anything, what they do is out of their own will and desire to better the device. If people have a problem with the phone then blame the manufacturer, not the people picking up after their mess.

I totally agree, the devs have my support in anything that they do, in whatever time frame they can make happen. Still better then the OEM time frame for an "update".

 

[nitsuj17]

i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung

 

[orion421]

i hope the poster(s) who jumped all over the devs awhile back (i forget who) arent using anything that they have done recently and will avoid froyo/gb unless it comes from verizon/samsung

agreed
10char

 

[CNemo7539]

While moving to irc may be unfortunate for some...it provides real time interaction for development. That simply is not possible on a forum. I work with a lot of people, and can fix problems 90% faster in real time.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

And that's OK. Unfortunately it doesn't leave any footprints anywhere else.
That's why we same questions everyday... Technical or whatever. The commonality between them is that they do not have posted answers here.

I'm talking for myself only. Please do not take it personally in any way and keep in mind that my English is not my native language, so something might sound harsh.

Like I got an understanding that RIL is the problem, by I was unable to find any technical explanation why, what was done to overcome etc. So, I asked here... I even do not want to think about what resulted. And all I wanted to have some technical answer, and may be share some ideas, because I'm in the IT field as well...

Now, looks whats going on around. Punkkaos got it working at least partially. I understand that other people contributed, and work probably started not 10 minutes ago. But nonetheless RIL is in progress or already done.

How I suppose to feel about this? I'm mixed.

Fist of all I'm THANKFUL for you guys who put all time and efforts in this! I'm not going to use it immediately, but I like that secure feeling that phone will not become a paperweight in 6 months down the road. I definitely will enjoy results of this work in the close future.

But, I need to admit that I have another side, as well. It's not necessarily dark, just kind of human nature, I guess. It kind of disappointment...

I ask myself - well, if it is done and done pretty quickly, why it didn't happened before? Months ago...

Like, just an assumption, please do not take it personally.

I think what if devs took a quick look and it didn't worked immediately and samsung promised update soon. People think - OK, we will wait for update, not worth to spend time on it. But time goes and goes and there is no update or leak... And tension is going up and up. And all this is OK and well understood. But doesn't solve the problem.

Yesterday, I've created twitter account (yes, call me a dinosaur) and specifically asked punkkaos how he addressed the problem. And guess what, he answered as expected that RIL is basically adapted and he does call result translation between old and new one. This is exactly how I would personally approach this problem myself.

My point here is that aside of actual work to be done, it is not rocket science. It is well known approach in programming.

And now you can throw all rocks you have into me, saying that if I so smart ass why I do not do it myself. That, right.

But, I know my limits and I'm not going to wipe out one of my comps, partition it to install Linux, to install tool chain, sources etc, to reinstall Windows and all crap me and my family needs in everyday life, just to try adapt RIL knowing that I will fail, because of my zero knowledge of subject. Or, even worse without knowing that it was already attempted and failed. And it was attempted by someone who is really ample to do it. Do you see holding factors?

That's why I asked questions. And being this question answered properly, who knows, may be another brave soul would had managed to accomplish what punkkaos did, but one month earlier, simpler or better. I feel like bad temper and communication let community down, at least temporarily.

And I think we are all at fault here. No need to point fingers.

 

[phooky]

No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.

 

[CNemo7539]

No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.

Did I ever said that I'm owed? My grief is about this particular community in general. And because we all members, we all equally responsible for a atmosphere here. Or you think that bashing somebody here helps a lot?

And you know what? OP is right at the moment, I'll stay away from any custom roms or mods or whatever. At least for now. Because to be "cool" is not only thing in my life anymore. I outgrown it long time ago.

My crave for update is stemming not from desire to have highest score in quadrant, but from wish to have stable, usable and secure platform, from which IMHO any current phone is far away.

Out of the box SF is fairly usable, thought not ideal. Having Froyo and GB, means that I can get all bug fixes, improvements and new features such as native code extensions for applications and games, enterprise stuff etc.

Using rooted phone might be OK for me, but definitely not for my wife or children. So, manufacturer support is still important. Unfortunately my believe in Samsung faded out very quickly. And that essentially raised importance of independent developers proportionally. I do not see anything wrong with it.

 

[woolster22]

No one is at 'fault' here. Your sense of entitlement is astounding; you are not owed anything. This OP was directed at people like you.

this guy does not seem to be in the entitlement crowd. He even states that english is a second language and to cut him some slack. I think what he was trying to say is that he was disappointed that samsung kept getting everybodies hopes up, which may have pushed devs off of working on getting things rolling for this device (why wouldn't they wait when they are being told froyo is on the way? From what I understand it would be easier to rip through that and make changes than to pull it off a different phone and sort of start from scratch). This doesn't sound too "tinfoil hat" to me, and certaintly doesn;t come off as entitled. More like he was pointing out one possible contributing factor as to why there has been a lot of waiting around (not complaining here guys, statement of fact. Did/do appreciate all the nonfroyo/gb roms and fixes that have been pushed out for us) for word of froyo. Now that Kaos/JT/Birdman have gotten some Froyo alpha's posted up, I am getting the feeling that the floodgates are about to open.

 

[Mean Sixteen]

2 cents

I am not a developer.

My phone was decent out of the box.

Thanks to all the developers hard work, that i don't yet have the ability to do, my phone has gone from decent to fantastic.

The best part is that they aren't done yet

The future is exciting and if i ever think i am entitled to anything from someone elses work then, please, someone on here ***** slap me.

To all developers on here....you have my respect and gratitude. You have improved my life and saved my ass more than once. (Or twice)

Please keep doing your thing. And when i learn how to help i will.

Sent from my fascinate through xda app.

 

[RacerXFD]

Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.

I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.

It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.

 

[adrynalyne]

Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.

 

[leehblanc]

Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.

I agree and disagree. I disagree because it's nice to have this stuff in the forums where more people can try it. On the other hand, no matter how many warnings you give, there are going to be those who AREN'T comfortable with ADB, etc and go ahead and do it anyway... then we as a community lose valuable time while you fix everyone's fubar. It's frustrating to me, I can only imagine being on the other side. As far as Devs go, I don't envy them... It's the utimate "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.

Aside from donations and thanks, the other way to support the Dev community is to PAY for apps. I have quite a few paid apps on my phone. The only caveat to that is when I'm looking at an app and I'm unsure if I want/need it. From time to time I'll grab it from ********* and give it a 5min test spin. If it works, I uninstall and grab it from the Market. If it doesn't, I just uninstall. I know (for the most part) that we're talking about two separate types of devs, but the point is the same... if you're using someone's work... support them!

In response to the post above, I think I get what he was saying... I've done some programming (old school, mostly... BASIC, MS Acess) and while that doesn't really apply to Android at ALL, there may be some of us that have ideas that could help. In the end, a variable is a variable is a variable. I've thrown questions and ideas out only to be ignored. I don't take it personally, but even a "no, dipshit... it doesn't work like that" would be appreaciated

 

[RacerXFD]

No seriously, the guys in IRC will flash anything thrown at them... Some of them will end up with serious issues that were found to be seriously flawed.

Here's an example. VooDoo 5. When it first started rolling around in IRC from jt, it was considered unstable. It did not have the tools required for the average user to repair their phone. Adrynalyne preemptively produced the DI01 all in one ROM to repair everything from the radio, the kernel, the MBR, the recovery even... Did Adrynalyne have to do that? No, he did it because he knew that kinds of issues that would arrive when VooDoo 5 was introduced. Then VooDoo 5 was released.

Compared to VooDoo 4, the amount of incidents are exponentially less because of Adrynalyne putting a fix out there.

Also with phone repairs, it's much easier to help someone fix something in real time than it is to wait on them to try something, post, wait for response, in that sequence than it is to discuss the repair live in a chatroom.

BTW, this is in no offense to anyone. This is to clarify why some of the people are perceived as elitists. It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).