My thoughts against unthankful users.

[durakbane]

As someone who doesn't know squat about development (programming is like a self inflicted migraine to me), I feel that:

1. You are solely responsible for your actions. It is the user's responsibility and their's alone to become educated (or at least accept the risks/repercussions) before messing with their phone. Do you go under your kitchen sink and start drinking whatever is there? I'd hope not...at the very least you should read the label and prepare to call 911.

2. The developers don't owe anyone anything. Actually, for the most part, it is the opposite (we owe them.) Unless someone is malicious in their intent, no one screwed up your phone other than you. No one forced you to down a gallon of liquid plummer (sticking to my analogy)...don't sue the company (in this case the developers) for your failure to properly weigh the risks. Sure ask them for help, but be aware.....

3. You aren't paying for developer customer service.Some of the greatest products have the worst customer service...doesn't stop people from using the product. Well, if a developer is crude, rude, or nasty..keep in mind they aren't getting paid. From what I've seen, if you are respectful and remain that way, someone will help you. Also, I've noticed that when a dev is being snide, there is usually some history involved either with an individual or the topic. Keep in mind, you get what you pay for. Don't like their answer..ignore them. I understand that it may be a simple question and deserves a simple answer. I also understand that if the answer only requires a little research on your part, people might get a little snippy. Which leads me to the last part of my 'novel'...

4. Do a little research. From my experience, the devs/experts/elites do not expect you to be just like them, but they do expect you to be educated on some of the basics..like getting adb installed, knowing how to get into recover mode (once rooted), and etc. There all kinds of faqs on the internet on how to do some of the basics. Also IRC is a great tool to see what's going on and to also learn a few things. Tons of problems are solved there everyday.

In summary, be responsible, be respectful, ignore the crappy comments, and read the label before you suck down the liquids under your sink.

Thank you and have a good day!

 

[orion421]

durkbane, well written sir.

 

[leehblanc]

It's not that the IRC crowd are elitists, it's that they're more up to date with the latest development because they're busy flashing and screwing up their phones first so that you don't have to. On the same token, if you want to learn/test latest development, hop on IRC and ask any of the guys in #Samsung-Fascinate for help. It's very friendly in there contrary to what you would think (as long as you're not wozzy/sherwood1).

Totally agree. The things you hear about IRC make it sound like going in there is the equivalent of an 18-year old girl walking into some backwoods biker bar in a bikini thong... you're just asking for trouble.

In reality, even the questions that a 5 second Google search could answer are answered, as long as you're nice about asking. I like to hang and handle the easy ones, as I'm sure the regulars get REALLY tired of questions like "Where can I find DL09"

 

[dricacho]

Sorry for my ignorance, I don't spend all my time in any forums all day long. Did such attacks happen in the forum?? I haven't seen anything but then again, as I said before, I don't spend too much time in here. I just come in, get the info I want, maybe ask a question or two, and then move on.

 

[Lodingi]

I also would like to know what the op is talking about. I've never read any negative comments towards the devs in this forum.

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[RacerXFD]

It was a while back. Back in late oct/nov time frame. Most of the tension has chilled out in here.

 

[phatspirit2]

If anyone is truly thankful, do it by giving them a few of your change. That by itself speaks volume.

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[Lodingi]

It was a while back. Back in late oct/nov time frame. Most of the tension has chilled out in here.

So why stir up ****?

 

[adrynalyne]

So why stir up ****?

Because it never really stopped. The same idiots still lurk and pop up here and there.

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[dricacho]

In some forums that I go to, the moderator has very little tolerance to those types of people and they are given a last warning. Disregard for such results in a ban. If that offender comes back and stirs up more trouble, then a permaban is enforced. For the sake of progress, I think such trouble makers should be given very little leniency and a prompt ban if they continue down their disruptive behavior. Dev or user, there's no excuse for disruptive behavior.

 

[xlinth]

Do what i do... ,sit back and be patient....if anybody wants to ***** then take it to verizon and samsung. Let us let the devs do what they do best, develope. Many a times have i seen devs stop working on something because uneducated people rant towards them. I am new to fascinate but i have been in the android community since day one. Last and definately not least...punk.kaos and the rest of the team working on froyo and gb...,you are my heros.
Thank you all that help us make our phone better...,and that includes all who are testing and providing feed back to the devs...soon we will have froyo and gb and it prove to all that our devs are better than the devs at samsung and verizon....so consider donating to them so they and their familys can live better.

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[uslacson1]

Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.

Thanks to the IRC crowd for risking messing their SF's to let lurkers, noobs, non devs get more stable releases.

All your efforts are definitely appreciated.

 

[CNemo7539]

Well, the goal isn't to instill hostility, but to bring awareness to be thankful.

I can see what CNemo means because he doesn't understand what's going on. I can assure you that there is no intended elitism going on. Most of the roms tested in irc are shared here as soon as they are determined to be stable enough for testing.

It may seem like there is no transparency, but actually if you care, there is... The source codes are public. You can see what the devs are doing on github.

I think I understand pretty well whats going on.

Well, may be elitism is wrong word here...

What I'm trying to explain is that cost of entry into the development field might be quite high from regular guy from the street. If one is not one the linux and platform already it might take quite a lot of effort even just to try something. What is somebody tried it already and found inapplicable? Then idea is plain throwout... Then all efforts are in vain. Personally I cannot afford it...

So, asking dumb sounding questions is the way to quickly figure out if I even need to try. Yes, I can read c++ code from git, but it's not going to help because I do not know a thing about kernel. I simply do not have whole picture... What I can to do is look at the list of thing what was tried/rejected/accepted and suggest some ideas and suggestions. It might sound strange at first, because I just said I do not know a thing, but despite of this there are huge similarities in soft development of different kinds, so plain experience/years in the field does matter.

What I often see here is response in the style - "Try to do it yourself first and then ask the question if fail". I imply it as "We are cool! We ahead of you! We did what we can already!" Unfortunately it doesn't give me any useful information. I know that you are cooler than me, otherwise I wouldn't ask the question, because I might figure it myself with Google. NO OFFENSE HERE! Please, just follow my thinking.

That not how the real leader answers. That's not going to set good mood and respect in the forums.

I also understand the motivations behind different types of communications. Forum vs. IRC at. That's cool. But look, if people still continue ask questions here on forum, that means somebody still needs it this way! Because it is old as the world and is proven.

 

[CNemo7539]

Yeah I've tried the whole, "Im just gonna throw it out there on the forums" thing. It does not work well, and you end up ticking people off when things stop working. Always best for the IRC crowd to muddle through the stuff first.

I see you point.

Do not think that I request something from you personally or anybody else, just a wish to improve communication. May I suggest to create a sticky in the devs forum where devs may post on an overall progress?

Something like:

01.11.11. We tried to compile sammys code and it doesn't work because of some sort of problems with RIL. That damn thing is different from what GSM versions have so we cannot port it from there. It also appears that something changed in android itself, like it is mix between 1.6 and 2.0.

01.12.11. Attempted to write RIL from scratch, but interface is pretty complex and we do not have enough documentation on chipset to fully implement it. We cannot proceed with Froyo without RIL.

01.13.11. Wrapped existing RIL to provide logging of existing calls.Wrapper loads undelying RIL and is able to initialize it. The number of calls and possible results from is finite, so once if we know all of them we might come up with translation layer.

01.14.11. Collected enough stats to understand whats going on. Looks like some calls work exactly as expected so we can simply delegate these calls to underlying Samsung RIL. Others will need translation. Work is moving way slower, because async calls are difficult to debug.

01.15.11. Created Wi-fi call translations. We have enough new functionality to start user testing. People who can test? We need to test this and this...

Update: PunkKaos SF passed away and we need another one to continue our efforts. Please donate <here>.

As you see it's not much longer that your tweets (though some more insights and tech details will be appreciated), but I guess it is way more digestible by general public than anything else.

I'm pretty much positive that it will cut the number of stupid useless threads significantly.

Am I asking to much, people?

 

[ivorycruncher]

Im as curious about what's going on as much as anyone, but I think that working on fixing code is a.much more important use of the dev's time than posting constant status updates. It's not like we're their project managers and are requiring status updates to prove that they're still doing their job. They do this because they want to, and it's up to them whether or not they want to provide regular status updates. Kaos has graciously done so via Twitter, which should be enough.

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[CNemo7539]

Totally agree. The things you hear about IRC make it sound like going in there is the equivalent of an 18-year old girl walking into some backwoods biker bar in a bikini thong... you're just asking for trouble.

In reality, even the questions that a 5 second Google search could answer are answered, as long as you're nice about asking. I like to hang and handle the easy ones, as I'm sure the regulars get REALLY tired of questions like "Where can I find DL09"

Very often the context directing people to IRC sound like "U r a moran if u cannot setup IRC and read from there. Go f**k uself". And it is well... Offensive and unexceptable!

And then you go there and you see chat between people, not necessarily technical. From my brief observation mostly non technical. And yes, you still have to ask same question. And yes, same people have to answers same answer. But, hey! Now, you part of the club!

 

[CNemo7539]

Im as curious about what's going on as much as anyone, but I think that working on fixing code is a.much more important use of the dev's time than posting constant status updates. It's not like we're their project managers and are requiring status updates to prove that they're still doing their job. They do this because they want to, and it's up to them whether or not they want to provide regular status updates. Kaos has graciously done so via Twitter, which should be enough.

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I would agree only if I didn't see so much MORE text typed by devs here in forums everyday. Even sum of responses "Stop asking about where is Froyo/GB" is longer than I've outlined here.

Kaos does good! It feels good! Why do not embrace if it is so good?

Project manager! You gotta be kidding me! If you only know what kind of crap my project manager collects!

But, you know what - somehow it moves faster with good project manager
And when I think about it, I usually come to conclusion that its not PM per se, but because some even minimal thinking about what was done and what I'm going to do next, makes me more efficient. And it makes other people, who works with me, more efficient, thought may be by other reasons.

 

[voghan]

I also would like to know what the op is talking about. I've never read any negative comments towards the devs in this forum.

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It wasn't so much that people questioned the devs work or accused them of hiding their work. It was that they treated people like jerks. One just has to scan this post and see their responses to see why people didn't like them.



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[ivorycruncher]

@CNemo

I hear where you're coming from, but like I said, this isn't a company/employee situation, and I'm not about to try and make it one. All this work is volunteer work, and should be treated as such, which means we don't sit here and talk about effeciency. Instead, we sit back, enjoy the results as they come, and donate to the cause.

The best way to deal with people whining about updates is to ignore them. If you entertain them by responding, they wont quit complaining.

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[uslacson1]

@CNemo

I hear where you're coming from, but like I said, this isn't a company/employee situation, and I'm not about to try and make it one. All this work is volunteer work, and should be treated as such, which means we don't sit here and talk about effeciency. Instead, we sit back, enjoy the results as they come, and donate to the cause.

The best way to deal with people whining about updates is to ignore them. If you entertain them by responding, they wont quit complaining.

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Well said Sir.