P-OLED Burn-in... after 3 days!!!

[ED2O9]

If you've read much about the Moto 360, you probably know about the ongoing issue of the thin plastic backs cracking near the band. Unfortunately, it's looking your our LG watches may have a major flaw of their own:
I received my G Watch R on Thursday evening, and after trying a few watch faces decided on the Aviator. I really liked the classic look as well as the weather info. So, the watch ran with that face all day Friday and Saturday, set to Screen Always On and a brightness of 3. At night, I set it to Screen Off.

Today (Sunday) I was showing my daughter the watch and changed to a softball face I found on facerepo.com. When dimmed, I noticed a strange mark in the yellow background. Upon closer inspection, I recognized it as the wings and hour marking of the Aviator face. So... after only 3 days (2 and a half, really) the P-OLED screen as developed burn-in. Granted in only is visible on a yellow or orange dimmed screen, but it is there. Which makes me wonder how long it will be before the burn-in is visible on a non-dimmed face?
The reason I bought the W Watch R over the Moto 360 is because I HATED the way the 360 screen shuts off unless it was constantly moving. I wanted to glance at the watch and see the time without flopping my arm around. Now I'm concerned that the feature that sold me on the watch will result in a damaged screen within a few weeks.

Please do me a favor and install Facer and the softball face, and let me know if you see burn-in on the dimmed screen as well. If so, LG might have a major problem on their hands.

 

[doki81]

if not mistaken..this is not the G watch issue..but the OLED issue. all the OLED have such burn in issue. just like what happen to the playstation vita 1st gen who has the OLED screen on it.

 

[ED2O9]

If an OLED screen is being used on a G watch, it IS a G watch problem. You don't use a screen technology with known burn-in issues (I just read a few minutes ago that P-OLED is supposedly worse than standard OLED) on a smart watch which will display the same icons an characters for days on end. I've had OLED phones in the past with no burn-in issues, so I was not aware of the problem until today. If the burn-in issue gets worse over time (mine is visible after 3 days), LG will have a serious problem on their hands and simply saying "it's an OLED issue" won't make people feel any better especially considering the $300 price tag.

 

[doki81]

If an OLED screen is being used on a G watch, it IS a G watch problem. You don't use a screen technology with known burn-in issues (I just read a few minutes ago that P-OLED is supposedly worse than standard OLED) on a smart watch which will display the same icons an characters for days on end. I've had OLED phones in the past with no burn-in issues, so I was not aware of the problem until today. If the burn-in issue gets worse over time (mine is visible after 3 days), LG will have a serious problem on their hands and simply saying "it's an OLED issue" won't make people feel any better especially considering the $300 price tag.

what i am trying to say is when there is OLED used...it will will burn in issue. what if you use the bright color screen now and see if after 1-2 days..the shadow will go away (please let us know again)?

so far i havent really use a watch face for long period ..i change almost everyday. and now i am more worry on the power saving watch face will cause issue to the phone..

this is the OLED happen to ps vita...and now sony has change the 2nd gen vita to use LCD instead of OLED..many new user has complaint that the new LCD screen has lousier screen than 1st gen OLED..especially the colour..

 

[Hawke84]

well thats worrying. i havent noticed any on mine yet but ive been changing between watch faces almost daily but now ive found one i like and im worried im going to face the same

 

[dunjamon]

I've been using the same face for a while now and haven't really notice any burn. Does the facer watchface have a dimmed mode? It might be because it's constantly on full that it burns in.

 

[ED2O9]

The Aviator isn't a Facer style. It's a purchased face from the Android Market, and it does dim. It doesn't shut off everything but the markers and hands, but it does dim the whole face. Did you try checking for burn-in on the dimmed softball face? It isn't apparent unless you have a solid dimmed background (yellow or orange work best). The default face for an app called WearFaces is orange and shows burn-in as well when the screen dims. Give it a try.
I'm sure it's a result of the screen being always on, even in a dimmed state. I could obviously reduce the burn-in by switching ambient mode off, but it defeats one of the main advantages that the LG watch has over the Moto 360. I had a 360 for a week, and it drove me nuts. It's a nice looking watch, but it always seemed like the screen was off when I wanted it on and it would pop on when I wanted it off. It's primarily a watch, and when you have to keep moving your arm around to check the time, it become a burden rather than a convenience.

 

[mitchellvii]

This is excellent example of why you should not use light colored watch faces. Burns battery and looks terrible. Remember on OLED, black means "off". A mostly black watchface burns almost no juice.

That softball face looks ridiculous anyway. Stick with Aviator.

Last point. Always on is just dumb. Why do you want your watch face on when you aren't looking at it, to impress chicks? Besides burning battery, an always on face is more difficult to activate the on face and thus Google Now. It activates faster from off to on than from slightly on to on.

 

[brianhill1980]

This is excellent example of why you should not use light colored watch faces. Burns battery and looks terrible. Remember on OLED, black means "off". A mostly black watchface burns almost no juice.

That softball face looks ridiculous anyway. Stick with Aviator.

Last point. Always on is just dumb. Why do you want your watch face on when you aren't looking at it, to impress chicks?

Your comment isn't even a solution or helpful at all. He's looking for someone to confirm the burn in issue. Honestly I have a hard time seeing it on the picture he submitted, but as someone who's interested in buying the watch I would like to know if this is a problem as well.

What happens if he takes your advice, sticks with a particular watch face for a long time, then decides he wants to change it to something else? If there is burn in, then it's going to be noticeable, no matter what watch face he uses. Your suggestion could be harmful.

Always on is not dumb. I have a Pebble and love the fact that I don't need to do anything crazy to see the time. I just look at it. No gestures, or interaction required. I would want / expect the same from any watch I plan on replacing it with. Otherwise there is a huge lack of convenience there. It's not to "impress chicks". And if you knew anything about "chicks" you'd know that stuff like this doesn't impress them and 95% of them could probably care less about some gadget.

 

[ro_explorer]

You need to be aware how to handle OLED displays. I learned my lesson in the hard way (with some previous phones) so, I now handle them with care and I have no problems anymore (both my Razr I - 2 years old, and my Watch R - 2 weeks old, are in perfect shape). I intend to buy an OLED TV soon as well .


So, long story short .... if you want long life out of your OLED screen you need to:
A: NEVER use it at max (or high) brightntness more than few seconds with a static image.
B: ALWAYS use more green/red themes because red and green are the most resilient OLED compounds (with the current manufacture technologies).
C: Use very very VERY LOW brightness for the "screen saver" - in our case, always on/dim mode.
D: WHITE has a lot of blue in it ... so, a long time of white theme usage will create burn-in in all colours, especially in the blue colour - the less resistant compound (3 times faster deprecation compared to red, 4-5 times compared to green) so avoid high contrast elements in high brightness mode.
E: Default DIM mode of the Watch G is waaaaay to bright for the purpose of the "dim" mode. A black, transparent layer is needed on top of the dim mode in order to prevent this (with the current firmware at least)

Conclusion: Choose wisely a pre-made face or build your own with the appropriate dim mode brightness.

Attached is my watch face (made for Watch Maker) and the basic colours tests (all photos captured few minutes ago). I tried to capture the appearance of the watch as seen with the naked eye (depending on your monitor calibration, your view might vary).
With this type of face I did not got any burn-ins and I'm using it with always on mode activated (I like the feeling of a real watch so I'll be able to take a glimpse at the watch and tell the time, without shacking it, bring it horizontally or pushing buttons). The brightness for "normal" use is set between 1 and 2 (approximate). I'm using Wear Mini Launcher which has an advanced brightness mode under settings.

For testing I used Stuck Pixel Fixer

 

[Hawke84]

@ro_explorer how do you use a tinted watch face only when screen is off but not when on? Using facer app I can apply a tinted black image always and that's it

Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

 

[mitchellvii]

Your comment isn't even a solution or helpful at all. He's looking for someone to confirm the burn in issue. Honestly I have a hard time seeing it on the picture he submitted, but as someone who's interested in buying the watch I would like to know if this is a problem as well.

OLED screens get burn-in. Everyone knows this.

What happens if he takes your advice, sticks with a particular watch face for a long time, then decides he wants to change it to something else? If there is burn in, then it's going to be noticeable, no matter what watch face he uses. Your suggestion could be harmful.

The LG G R shifts the image from time to time to prevent burn-in.

Always on is not dumb. I have a Pebble and love the fact that I don't need to do anything crazy to see the time. I just look at it. No gestures, or interaction required. I would want / expect the same from any watch I plan on replacing it with. Otherwise there is a huge lack of convenience there. It's not to "impress chicks". And if you knew anything about "chicks" you'd know that stuff like this doesn't impress them and 95% of them could probably care less about some gadget.

Yes, always on is dumb. It leads to burn in. I was kidding about impressing chicks. Lighten up dude.

 

[ro_explorer]

@ro_explorer how do you use a tinted watch face only when screen is off but not when on? Using facer app I can apply a tinted black image always and that's it

I have no idea what are the advantages&limitations of "Facer". In "WatchMaker" I'm adding a black picture on top of everything, set the proper transparency to achieve the desired brightness ... then I set that object to be visible only in "dim mode"

 

[Hawke84]

I have no idea what are the advantages&limitations of "Facer". In "WatchMaker" I'm adding a black picture on top of everything, set the proper transparency to achieve the desired brightness ... then I set that object to be visible only in "dim mode"

Thanks just been playing with facer and seems to be a limitation of that app. Thanks for your help

Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------

The LG G R shifts the image from time to time to prevent burn-in.

How do you know it does this? I've not seen it do this.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

 

[ED2O9]

OLED screens get burn-in. Everyone knows this.



The LG G R shifts the image from time to time to prevent burn-in.



Yes, always on is dumb. It leads to burn in. I was kidding about impressing chicks. Lighten up dude.

Please stop while you're behind. You are embarrassing your fellow Charlotteans. You need to realize that your opinions are not shared by everyone, so expressing yourself the way you do just makes you look like a troll. Not everyone knows that OLEDs burn-in. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of people who buy consumer electronics don't know what an OLED is let alone that a burn-in problem exists. Finally, I was using the Aviator face and only switched to the softball one temporarily because my daughter asked me to. Even if I did prefer that softball watch face, that's my choice so please refer back to my previous statement. In short, do people a favor and actually read posts before you comment on them and even then, ask yourself if you are actually contributing anything to the conversation. If not, don't hit the enter key and just move on.

 

[ro_explorer]

How do you know it does this? I've not seen it do this.

It does and it's shifting randomly between one pixel and 4-5 pixels. You can see it if you have enough patience to watch the dim mode for 2 minutes continuously. The shift happens every minute and it is most visible on watch faces with hour markers. You will se a misalignment every minute and every time in another direction.

With this I also want to make everyone aware that if they are using bright elements in their designs, if the respective elements are no more than 2 pixels wide, they will not cause that much burn-in because the dim mode pixel shifting will move that object around enough to let the main pixels "rest". That why you can see in my design, all objects (letters/numbers and watch hands) are thin.

One more tip for designers: leave a 4-5 pixels wide circle, black, around your watch face in dim mode. In this way you will prevent ugly visible misalignments when pixel shifting does occur.

 

[Icefeldt]

Thanks for this thread.
I was not aware of this "issue".

Will be interesting how this thread evolves and how other users experience the burn-ins.

 

[ED2O9]

In case you weren't able to see the burn-in in my original post, this picture is a bit better. I created a gray background which I dropped into the WearFaces app (standard and dimmed). When the screen dims, this is the burn-in I'm seeing. I did run the brightness at 6 for an hour or two when I was outside in daylight, but otherwise it was set to 3 or less. Please keep in mind that this is only visible when the screen is dimmed in ambient mode, but I'm concerned that it will get considerably worse over time and will eventually be noticeable all the time. It's not visible on the Stuck Pixel app because the brightness for the individual colors is too high.
I realize that Android Wear shifts the image, but if the illuminated area is wider than a few pixels it's not going to do much to eliminate the burn-in.
As for the comments that from certain people that everyone knows about OLEDs burn-in and only idiots set the screen to always on... apparently LG didn't know any better either, since they ship the watch set to ambient mode by default and the brightness on 4.
I've attached the gray PNG background if anyone wants to try it. Remember, the burn-in is only visible when the screen is dimmed (on mine anyway).

 

[ro_explorer]

I recommend you to use this software for one or 2 hours.
Crank up the watch brightness to maximum, set the app to switch colours every 500ms and let it cycle for an hour between RGB only. Then put the whole colours and let it run for another hour.
The default switching time is very short because the app is designed to unstuck stucked pixels ... you want to force even output of all pixels so you need to keep them ON for longer time.

I cannot guarantee it will completely fix your issue but it will make it far less visible for sure.

Remember, do this with the brightness at max level for about 2 hours.

Explanation: even illumination of ALL pixels of the same colour (RGB switch phase) should even a little the "wear" of the pixels so, all the pixels of the screen will become more equal in terms of light level output.
When you run all the colours (the other colours are mixtures between 2 major RGB components) so it will equalise the light output between each pair of RGB, resulting in the end an even illuminated display.

If you are going to try that, post here the results please. That methodology worked on 2 personal AMOLED phones until now (showing similar issues).

 

[Hawke84]

it possibly explains the designs of the stock watch faces, all with thin lines to allow for the pixel shifting to work. im wondering if LG will be funny about RMA as the cause is technically the custom unofficial watch face. I hate to suggest it and i hope im wrong because your burn in is really bad on the gray background. ive switched back to stock watch faces but its a bit disappointing as i loved my custom Tag face
@ED2O9 do you plan on sending for RMA?