[Q] Upgrade/Downgrade/headaches.

[globalsearch]

This is my first post here so please be gentle. I have a Note pro 12.2 (p900/WiFi) tablet that I purchased last year after 2 months of reading/doing research/and hands on between it and the Surface3 pro. Biggest problem was I had to go to Florida to actually get my hands on a Pro because no one in the tri state area (MD/PA/NJ) had it in stock or even as a display. And when I bought it i HAD to order it.
Past all that, the Note has been invaluable to me, 64GB plus 128GB card. I use it every day, 8-12 hours minimum. I have not rooted it because I am worried about support. I also have a Note 3 running 4.4.2 - I turned off the auto updates and have refused to allow the upgrade to Lollipop on that device because of all the problems I have been reading about. That device works perfectly. My wife's first S4 did and auto update which completely messed up that phone. So I have experience trying to get those children at the Sprint store to try to help. _anyway, I digress. Today, I checked, an update is available for the Note Pro (+1GB file to download by the looks of it) I would not mind trying it but first I want to do a complete backup snapshot of my device. Just like I do on my pc's and laptops. For example, I use Clonezilla and can image the whole thing, perfectly, and restore it COMPLETELY - at will. I have not found ANY tool that allows me to do that to ANY android device. It is like I am being help hostage. I hate it.
1. I want to be able to get a complete (Clonezilla style image) of my NOTE PRO and I want to be able to restore that should the Lollipop experience be Lollypoop.
2. I want to be able to capture that snapshot of the device with all its settings intact - including the Knox

Can this be done? What tool is there that allows a real complete snapshot of an android device and allows you to restore a previous or older version, SHOULD I CHOOSE TO (from 5.02 to 4.4.2 - something the Sprint children told me is not possible with android)

Any useful help and pointing into a direction that can do this would be greatly appreciated. I know that I am not alone in this frustration with Google forcibly controlling EVERYTHING ( I was livid last year when my Notes upgraded to 4.4.2 and I lost the ability to write to the external card on nearly every app that I had paid for, even sent multiple e-mails to Samsung, to no avail)

 

[dcartwright]

Following along

I'm curious about whether that is possible as well beyond a nandroid backup. I'm not likely to upgrade to the 5.02 firmware because I have the logitech keyboard case. If

I've been an XDA member for nearly 7 years, but I don't usually ask much in the way of questions. I hardly post at all, actually. I can usually find my answers by searching and reading the forums. This is my first Samsung device (I've always had either Nexus or HTC phones. & Nexus tablets) and I find working with it to be kind of frustrating. I've kept it stock at 4.4 because it works 95% of the time. The only problem I have is with wifi at times.

I'd like to put an alternate ROM on it and find a way to keep most of the S-pen functionality, but so far the array of "X works, but Y" doesn't info associated with various roms I've read about is daunting.

 

[globalsearch]

serious lack of understqnding

Can you imagine, making an upgrade and blowing out a major manufacturer like Logitec? Not some hokum chinese knockoff, but a name brand. This is exactly what is wrong with android. It seems inexperienced and oblivious children are driving it. That is one of the major reasons android was lacking serious professional support and respect all these years. Making boneheaded decisions that destroy existing functionality, for what? A new color scheme? A flat screen lay out? Really, thats what we need?
And when they PUSH the upgrades, its like you are trapped. A cloned backup and the ability to restore to a previous good setup is absolutely essential. I have looked at all these mods of the kernel and tweaks, etc. The fact is that NONE of them have 100% functionality. You always lose something, sometimes a lot. And the gains do not seem to be worth destroying the stock setup. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CAN NOT UNDO IT.
The loss of direct access to external sd cards for example, because google is pushing phones with no external sd slots. Really? I avoided apple products EXACTLY because there was no expansion slot. Then google goes and kills it.
Here is a suggestion. NOT ALL DEVICES ARE PHONES. Tablets have been around for years. Enough already with phone upgrades for tablets. Tablets should have their own firmware and operating system.
Here is a novel idea. You want loyal customers? Give them what they are clamoring for. Give them the ability to save their systems. Then upgrade fo your hearts content. BUT IF IT IS A CRAP UPGRADE. Allow them to undo it. Think about how much less bad feedback and emergency support you can avoid. Thats real dollars being save.

And by the way, as unresponsive as Samsung has been, they see the writing on the wall. Android on Samsung devices is heading the way of the dodo. Some skinned version of a tablet/phone linux replacement is coming. It will be one of the first major rejections of google power grab by a major player in the market.

So give us the ability to backup our systems. WITHOUT HAVING TO ROOT, when even that does not guarantee 100% sucess

 

[globalsearch]

and the list grows

Judging by the slew of problems, an ever increasing list, Lollipoop is so not a worthwhile upgrade. This is exactly why we need to be able to snapshot/backup the complete system BEFORE ANY UPDATES.

After two days of waiting, it is disappointing to me that no answer has been posted. I thought if any place had it it would be here. I might be wrong.

 

[muzzy996]

Judging by the slew of problems, an ever increasing list, Lollipoop is so not a worthwhile upgrade. This is exactly why we need to be able to snapshot/backup the complete system BEFORE ANY UPDATES.

After two days of waiting, it is disappointing to me that no answer has been posted. I thought if any place had it it would be here. I might be wrong.

As you've guessed, you're basically looking for an answer that doesn't exist, at least not the specific one you want. The one you don't? . . . Root and install custom recovery? . . that's the only answer at this point . . and yes it trips Knox . . it is what it is . . Trust me, you're not the first or only person to lament about the situation. I've been up on my own soap box many times too.

 

[globalsearch]

ah..

As you've guessed, you're basically looking for an answer that doesn't exist, at least not the specific one you want. The one you don't? . . . Root and install custom recovery? . . that's the only answer at this point . . and yes it trips Knox . . it is what it is . . Trust me, you're not the first or only person to lament about the situation. I've been up on my own soap box many times too.

I had a premonition, considering how no one touched my question. You can get a lot of answers by just by asking the right question, even when they don't answer.
As long as Android remains attached to this childish, closed sandbox and its restrictions, then its days are numbered. From the standpoint of a business owner, if I was a major company with product in the pipeline that needs something to run as the basic operating system, I WOULD BE LOOKING SOMEPLACE ELSE.

Google is not the end-all be-all of software. There were other operating systems before them and there will be operating systems after they move into the dustbin of history. I hope they are paying attention here. I personally have been in the field since the mid-70's, I see a strong pattern here.

Anyway, thank you for flipping on the light bulb. I will contain my rage and re-direct it to something more productive (like those dweebs at Papyrus - jesus)

 

[Sterist]

I was searching the forum looking for an answer to something like this... I have to say, I'm also shocked there have no answers given

regarding Knox... no you cannot restore that under any circumstances.

snapshot of everything else... yes and no. you cannot snapshot (aka nandroid aka twrp backup) your bootloader or STOCK recovery.

bootloader: you can only change this via Odin or OTA updates, and depending on the specific update cannot downgrade these below a certain point of the currently installed (if at all)

recovery:
you can freely flash new versions without a pc, but you cannot backup the stock recovery in a nandroid because the nandroid is generated using twrp -- a custom recovery that takes the place of stock recovery (mostly useless). if you find a copy of the stock recovery on the forum, you could then flash it back using Flashify from Google Play, but you'd then lose the ability to restore your nandroid until TWRP is restored.

also, you cannot take OTA updates while TWRP is installed, and in some cases at all / ever again after installing TWRP or root.

edit:
I can confirm that OF4 (the initial lollipop update) can be downgraded to NK1 (the newest kitkat update). if anyone can confirm for me whether or not OI1 can be downgraded to kitkat NK1 I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Beut]

Depending on what version of Note Pro you have, LTE versions have locked bootloader, so they cannot downgrade.
Wifi Note Pro doesn't have locked bootloader, but downgrade from Lollipop to Kitkat you need bootloader for Kitkat along with the firmware NK1. If you read the threat LogicTech keyboard not working after update to Lollipop, you will see the link to Kitkat bootloader.
Without this bootloader, your tablet will hang at boot up after you flash the Kitkat firmware.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=62371717&postcount=125
This is my current Lollipop OI1

I downgrade it to NK1, this process only takes 5 minutes

I did it only for demonstration but personally I think Lollipop has a better graphic interface, then I go back to Lollipop .
I can go back and forth from Kitkat to Lollipop with ease as long as right bootloader is loaded.
Since I loaded the OH2, the tablet is updating now to OI1 and it's wifi version SM-P900 Note.

 

[ShadowLea]

LTE versions have locked bootloader,

That's not entirely true.

The USA LTE versions have a locked bootloader.

The International P905, however, does not. (Device-locking of any kind is illegal under EU law.)

Now, whether you can downgrade the P905 I really can't say, because mine has been comfortably sitting on 4.4.2, and I have no desire to let Lollipop anywhere near it. :laugh: Just thought I'd clarify that the US and EU devices are not the same

 

[Beut]

thought I'd clarify that the US and EU devices are not the same

If you can post your tablet with back cover removed, I can tell if it's different from US device. I once opened a tablet sold in England, I did not see any differences from US device except the hardware code indicates it's not from US. I swap a mainboard from SM-P907A, an LTE tablet from AT&T to SM-P905V, an LTE tablet from Verizon, it runs normally except the software customized for AT&T. I don't change anything from the Verizon tablet, except the mainboard from AT&T.
Even with a LTE mainboard, I can use any part of a Wifi Note Pro SM-P900 except the rear camera as they are exactly the same.
Or I can change a LTE Note Pro to a Wifi Note Pro by swapping the mainboard and rear camera, the rest are identical.
From my experiences of varieties of Samsung tablets, I don't see any major differences of Note Pro LTE and Wifi versions as they almost use the same parts.

By using a mainboard of Tab Pro in a Note Pro tablet, I can even change a Note Pro to a Tab Pro as they are using the same parts except the Tab Pro mainboard doesn't have S Pen cable connector, it works normally as a Tab Pro.
That means I can downgrade a LTE Note Pro to Wifi Note Pro or Wifi Tab Pro by only swapping mainboard and rear camera.
Given the fact that LTE tablets sold in US have different names but actually they are Identical , I can tell Samsung makes the same tablet but the differences
are software and firmware loaded into it, like SM-P905A, SM-P907V, SM-P907T, they're branded by LTE providers but the hardwares are the same