@surfer63, even under this condition comparison like "Intel vs PX5" would show correct results (close to correct). My phone Galaxy S6 shows some 100000 AnTuTu "sheeps" as compared to 20000 of Joying's, and one can really feel it in real life. I am not sure I would notice 20th vs say 30th though.
General [Review] Joying PX5 2GB+32GB on Android version 8.0.0 (FYT unit)
- Thread starter surfer63
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ouch! my PX5 is D E A D !!! very sad =( made a stupid mistake and flashed something to the wrong partition! work must stop for now =( grrr! ;(
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I'm new to the HU scene but I'm an embedded hardware/firmware developer by profession. I've not opened my HU up yet (time has been scarce) but surely there are programming hardlines over JTAG or some other interface? Surely you can't kill the boot loader at the lowest level...it's a linux box of sorts after all.
There must be a way to bring a unit with good hardware back regardless of what the firmware condition is???
The px5 is very well documented due to it's age, though on our SoM, there might be something else that reboots the CPU if there is no valid recovery or system partition.
The mistake I made was to flash a non bootable recovery partition while the system partition was blank (never ever do this!!!)
Now, if I can figure it out, is how to access the otg port on the unit. The Sofia has a usb hub chip on the SoM. I can't find one on the px5. Does the CPU have a hub built in???
The next step I will do is find the TX/RX pins on the SoM and see if there is any boot logging like on the Sofia.
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@surfer63... could you assist? is there a way you can upload a full partition dump of all partitions minus system data and cache?
---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------
there is...sort of. There is a "MASK ROM" loading mode...but I'm not sure how to enable it. Actually scratch that, I do know how to enable it, by shorting the data pins on the NAND. The problem is the USB OTG port...which pins are they? Unlike the Sofia SoM which had a USB Hub IC on it, this one doesn't seem to, is there multiple USB ports integrated into the PX5 SoM???We need to figure out what they are in order for the computer to recognize it. We have no schematic for these SoM's... ;(
I attempted to use the RK SD Tool...i was able to have the unit boot from it, but due to variances in images that I used from other units, my PX5 doesn't even turn on anymore, not even an LED! Looks like the CPR I tried to give it finally killed it. sheesh. still sad
---------- Post added at 08:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------
there is...sort of. There is a "MASK ROM" loading mode...but I'm not sure how to enable it. Actually scratch that, I do know how to enable it, by shorting the data pins on the NAND. The problem is the USB OTG port...which pins are they? Unlike the Sofia SoM which had a USB Hub IC on it, this one doesn't seem to, is there multiple USB ports integrated into the PX5 SoM???We need to figure out what they are in order for the computer to recognize it. We have no schematic for these SoM's... ;(
I attempted to use the RK SD Tool...i was able to have the unit boot from it, but due to variances in images that I used from other units, my PX5 doesn't even turn on anymore, not even an LED! Looks like the CPR I tried to give it finally killed it. sheesh. still sad
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I already did that when I received my unit. See https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AfvdQqMURwkExZ7qag_HmS_ZjbIv0KF1
(Note: the coming 2 days I'm on business trip without access to my own car. About to leave now.)
Thanks a lot! Now I am confused a little as how to interpret the results in order to compare Intel Sofia and PX5: should Sofia's ~20000 be compared to PX5's 44737 or to 19352?
I will do the same test on my Sofia next Wednesday. Currently on business trip.
PX5 Antutu benchmark
Sofia 3GR Antutu benchmark
The overall benchmark: 18491
CPU = 8691
GPU = 0
UX = 7038
MEM = 2762
(Got home relatively early in the evening)
Sofia 3GR Antutu benchmark
The overall benchmark: 18491
CPU = 8691
GPU = 0
UX = 7038
MEM = 2762
(Got home relatively early in the evening)
Indeed. W.r.t. the GPU: On the PX5 I really had to download a 3D additional app. On the Sofia that was not asked. Maybe that's why the GPU mark is zero on the Sofia.
Another thing I did see is the fact that the intel temperature daemon was stopped on the Sofia.
It is just as I said (I think): As soon as Antutu starts, the Sofia boosts its performance and stops other "things". I think that the intel temperature daemon was stopped as it might throttle down the CPU frequency, and as supplier you don't want that during performance measurement.
To check this I ran the test 2 times with a reboot and "cool down" in between. The variation was between the mentioned 18419 and 19006 (I think it was).
Can't get my px5 to update!!
I have the SAME noise-with-external-amp problem with my px5. I upgraded from an older Joying unit that was Android 4.4 and Quad-core (MTCD I believe it was) - I was able to use the exact same wiring harness so installation was a cinch -- noise was NOT present on the older unit! So, I know that wiring/installation/amp is not the problem. It has to be something introduced with the new unit.
However, I can't even get mine to update! I've tried the June update and the July updates to no avail. PLEASE HELP! I'm desperate!
From the settings screen on my unit (it doesn't look quite the same as what is found on Joying update page?)
And... I'm not sure what exact model/version I have as nothing seems to match anything on their update page (except for CPU, resolution, ROM, and RAM)
Model: px5
Android version: 8.0.0
Android security patch level: October 5, 2017
Baseband version: Unknown
Kernel Version:
4.4.103
stt-tec@stt-tec #8
Sat Jun 9 02:49:53 UTC 2018
Build number: OPR5.170623.007 release-keys-V3.31
Processor: 8 core 64-bit CPU Cortex-A53@1.5G
Memory: 4.0 GB
Resolution: 1024x600
Machine Code: 0B000A890000AA55
APP version: TP6735 0.0.84
MCU version: TP6735 4.44
BT version: SD/v16.2018:04:18:15:52:46 fw:Apr 18 2018 14:53:15
Could not wait till weekend and installed the update on the HU.
No major changes detected
Everything seems to work like before except the beeping sound from keyboard is no longer present.
Exactly the sound is not there and the button to turn it on and off is also not present one issue resolved
The update was a quick one comparison to my previous units.
I have the SAME noise-with-external-amp problem with my px5. I upgraded from an older Joying unit that was Android 4.4 and Quad-core (MTCD I believe it was) - I was able to use the exact same wiring harness so installation was a cinch -- noise was NOT present on the older unit! So, I know that wiring/installation/amp is not the problem. It has to be something introduced with the new unit.
However, I can't even get mine to update! I've tried the June update and the July updates to no avail. PLEASE HELP! I'm desperate!
From the settings screen on my unit (it doesn't look quite the same as what is found on Joying update page?)
And... I'm not sure what exact model/version I have as nothing seems to match anything on their update page (except for CPU, resolution, ROM, and RAM)
Model: px5
Android version: 8.0.0
Android security patch level: October 5, 2017
Baseband version: Unknown
Kernel Version:
4.4.103
stt-tec@stt-tec #8
Sat Jun 9 02:49:53 UTC 2018
Build number: OPR5.170623.007 release-keys-V3.31
Processor: 8 core 64-bit CPU Cortex-A53@1.5G
Memory: 4.0 GB
Resolution: 1024x600
Machine Code: 0B000A890000AA55
APP version: TP6735 0.0.84
MCU version: TP6735 4.44
BT version: SD/v16.2018:04:18:15:52:46 fw:Apr 18 2018 14:53:15
@surfer63: So I receive the new PX5 Android 8.0 4gig 32 gig in exchange for my black screen Sofia 6.0. I have experience sudden reboots. I believe its because it gets too hot and just reboots and also when I hit it with the ac the reboots are none. So my question what are healthy levels of temperature for it? And should I open it up and add a fan? Heat sink?
I think your unit is a QD unit, not a FYT unit, so are you using the right ROM to flash?
Secondly: please ask Joying for confirmation what unit you have (they should have your order details) and which ROM you need to flash.
carjoying@gmail.com
Short answer: Yes, you should open it up and at least install a fan.
"Healthy levels" is an extremely grey area. The lower, the better of course.
What I get from the technical papers is that the chip should stay below 90 C on continuous load.
My unit is constantly at 70-75 C with extremes to 85 C with only a small 3x3 cm 5V usb fan in a unit with a DVD-player leaving little room for air circulation and actually no room for a heatsink.
So I think my CPU is safe, but I don't know about the other components in close vicinity.
I would always advice a fan over a heatsink if you would only use one. The heatsink will only delay the heating up of the unit if the air can't circulate.
Both is best. There are several topics about this question with example pictures of the several solutions.
Hey guys,
I got a PX5-unit offered as a replacement for my broken Sofia.
What would you guys recommend at the moment, the 2gb px5 or 4gb?
I got a PX5-unit offered as a replacement for my broken Sofia.
What would you guys recommend at the moment, the 2gb px5 or 4gb?
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10Joying got in contact with me and asked me if I would wanted to test one of their new PX5 2GB models on Android version 8.
I decided that I wanted to do so, so I received for some 28 euros a Joying JY-VO130P2.
So what is it:
8" screen 2DIN unit for VW/Skoda/Seat/Audi
ARM Cortex based ARM V8, 1 processor 8 A53 cores (4 running at 1.5 GHz, 4 "low energy" running at 1.2 GHz)
FYT based SOM
2GB internal memory (RAM)
32GB storage (ROM)
Android version 8.0.0
particularities: DVD-player
I made a video review of it which you can find here:https://youtu.be/MH1snfDIU5A
The Good:
- seems minimally faster than the Sofia 3GR
- FYT/syu software the same as on Sofia 3GR.
- Android 8.0.0, longer support
- Android 8 supports split-screen functionality out of the box.
- Improved radio reception (but needs to be tested over longer period)
- Improved sound quality (I think, but I forgot to mention in the review)
The bad:
- Too high temperatures of the cpu
- No user configuration of buttons
- FYT/syu software the same as on Sofia 3GR (I mean that some "weird" things are still there on the PX5 as well)
- FYT/syu applications (radio, bt, music player, etc.) do not support split screen (and it is so simple to enable this)
- No Android 8 Automotive integration
- Chinese translations could be improved using on-line tooling like weblate.org or crowdin.com (or others) by using the user community.
The really bad:
- Too high temperatures of the cpu. It really needs better cooling.
Update Sun 13 May 2018:
There is indeed an issue with the WiFi on this new Version 8.0.0 model. I already mentioned in my video review that it did not auto-connect to my WiFi networks.
- When fully rebooting the unit, it connects automatically to my home WiFi. No issue at all.
- When coming from deep-sleep, WiFi is either switched off ór WiFi is still on, but it doesn't connect automatically to my WiFi networks.
See update Fri 18 May
And maybe some explanation: I mentioned in the review that it is very simple to alter the AndroidManifest.xml to allow resizing the app and make it function in split-screen. So why didn't I do that myself?
The Joying apps are signed. Some parts can be easily changed without touching the signing, but the AndroidManifest.xml is part of that signing as it also contains the security options the application needs. Off course I do not have the Joying signature so I can't recompile the app with the same signature while the AndroidManifest.xml is obviously changed. That is exactly how it should work or any hacker could get access.
FYT/syu should change this.
Update Mon 14 May:
There used to be a bug in the older ROMs that where you gave the BT access to your contacts, it would erase all your contacts.
Well, 8.0 also erases all your contacts!
This issue annoys me highly as it is so old and it still isn't solved.
Update Tue 15 May:
The Google Assistant with spoken searches does not work.
When trying to use the voice search function (clicking the microphone in the search bar), It shows very shortly the 'Speak now' indicator before it turns into an error message that mentions "No internet connection". I checked very carefully and my internet connection is fine. I tried with 2 home WiFi networks and via hot-spot on my phone. All internet connections work fine, but Google search still gives this error message.
Update Fri 18 May:
See post #44
Update Wed 23 May (test of Android auto):
See post #54
Update Sunday 10 June:
See post #77
- OK Google solved.
Update Tuesday 12 June:
Some update about the BT app erasing your Google contacts: Joying is now working full steam on it. Another user made a nice video on youtube about it4
That's the idea!
I've been using a chinese company (seeed) to print my prototype circuit boards, and I've been assembling them by hand.
The boards have on them;
1) TI PCM1865 ADC. This chip has 4 stereo analog inputs, 1 stereo i2s input, 2 stereo i2s outputs. I have that hooked up such that the i2s input and 1 of the i2s outputs connect to the SBC, the second i2s output is connected to the DACs, 1 stereo analog input for microphone(s), 1 stereo analog input for AMFM radio, and 2 stereo analog auxiliary line inputs. The second DSP on this chip has the ability to selectively mix any combination of inputs (whether analog or digital), adjust their relative gain, and direct them to any i2s ouput, so there is a huge amount of flexibility in the audio routing capability.
2) 2x TI PCM5142 DACs. These chips take an i2s input and convert to analog. They also have a built in programmable DSP and volume controls.
3) STPA003 4x52 watt automotive amplifier.
4) Real time clock: PCF85063A with a supercapacitor backup good for around a couple of weeks. If it runs flat, no biggie because the next network connection will pull a time via NTP, reset it, and recharge it.
5) Level shifter for 3.3v debug interface and/or 4-wire UART expansion.
6) AMFM Radio: NXP TEF6686, and I've actually got the source code to run this thing!!! I've implemented a broadcast radio HAL for it and I have RDS working. I do NOT have AF working, but this is because no radio stations in Canada actually use AF, which means that I have no means of testing it. But all the building blocks needed for it to be implemented *ARE* there for anybody who is in a position to take it on.
7) Microcontroller: ATSAMD21 (ARM Cortex M0+). This is needed for (a) a few 3.3v signals, (b) steering wheel interface ADCs. My code or this is open source, and can be built using Arduino IDE, and installed either from arduino ide, or on the board itself using avrdude. At the moment, I'm running a bit of a kludge with it interfacing with a daemon on the SBC that opens uinput, mainly because an earlier prototype used ATMEGA328p which interfaces with the SBC using UART. The SAMD21 interfaces using USB, so I'll eventually want to reimplement as a USB HID device.
8) 3x input optocouplers for reading the state of car signals (acc, headlight, reverse).
The line-level analog outputs of the DACs are also available on a header before the amplifier, for external amplifiers, and I've included another header that brings out power, i2c, and the i2s output from the ADC, which would make it possible to expand the system with up to 2 additional DACs, for up to 8 channel output. My use of that header is mainly for debug purposes where I can attach a logic analyzer, so I haven't actually designed such a board, but if there is demand, it certainly could be made to happen.
I briefly considered adding a GPS to the board, but you can buy a U-Blox USB GPS for ~$10-$15 new from Acme-zon. Since the thing is going to need an external antenna anyway, it might as well be a more robust self contained unit rather than fiddly coaxial wire connections, and price wise, its just a complete no-brainer.
So the minimal parts list for a completely 100% open source "ultimate" car radio;
1) My mezzanine,
2) A 96boards SBC (currently HiKey960, soon DragonBoard820C, or if you want to dive into the software, technically *ANY* as long as it has implemented the optional i2s input pin or offers some way to recover that pin such as the DragonBoard410C -- though I wouldn't suggest that board due to only 1 GB RAM)
3) Vehicle specific radio pigtail. That's the wire with a plug that fits your car on one side, and a bunch of loose wires on the other side.
4) HDMI+USB Touch display.
5) USB GPS.
6) Analog microphone.
And that's a pretty easy list, I think. The pigtail will need to be soldered onto the mezzanine board, which I set up to be extremely easy to solder to, the display will have to be mounted somehow, and everything else just snaps together.
Another thing I've managed to accomplish, is to completely hijack the 7" 1024x600 displays on joying radios. The LCD was never a problem, just plug it into an HDMI converter board and its working, attach a PWM pin from the microcontroller to the converter board to control the brightness. I had a problem on an earlier attempt to deal with the touch sensor, but more recently discovered that they actually mislabelled the ribbon wire. In fact I have two very different touchscreens sold by joying, and found them both to be mislabelled, which means that it must be intentional. Once that's been discovered, they're just generic GT911 i2c digitizers, and can be used either with a USB touchscreen controller, or goodix driver in the linux kernel.
Optional stuff: USB hub and some UVC cameras. These can be rigged up in any way imaginable. I use 2 for front/back dashcam and record to sdcard, but they can be used for reverse camera or parking assist if so desired.
Oh, did I mention the killer feature? Its 100% open source. AOSP Master! (plus a few of my own pieces, which are also open source. Hope to eventually upstream most of it).3
I suspect that you will find, in very short order, that these chinese car radios are a lot more frustration than they're worth, at least if your objective is to end up with something that actually works *really well*.
From what I understand of the situation, the real issue is cultural. In China, they don't place a very high value on innovation, rather they place a very high value on conformity. Part of that is political, I'm sure, as you probably don't want to make yourself stand out too much under that type of a political regime. At the end of the day, it means that what you produce is simply regurgitation of what you had before. Yeah, maybe this iteration includes a faster and newer CPU core, which isn't innovative, because they're just licensing (or "borrowing") newer IP from ARM, which is from the UK, where they DO value innovation.
You can actually follow these things backwards and figure out how they ended up in such a disorganized mess. It traces back to building car radios using mobile versions of windows. You see, if you go back and look even at mainstream aftermarket car radios from several years ago, like your kenwoods and pioneers, you can actually open them up and find that each of the primary "applications" will correspond to a separate piece of *hardware*. So you'll have your garmin navigation board. You'll have your bluetooth board. You'll have your radio board. You'll have your windows board... and these pieces will all be tied together by another board with an MCU and a display switch. The buttons and the touchscreen will be connected to the MCU, and the MCU will set some mode for the rest of the system to operate in, will set the display switch to have the corresponding device's output showing on the screen, and will route data from the buttons and the touchscreen to that particular device.
That's pretty cumbersome, but its what you have to do when you're stuck using simplistic, buggy, closed source software.
Now where the cultural problem comes in is this; with the introduction of Android as a replacement for Windows, they failed to take full advantage of the increased flexibility to manipulate the hardware directly. Instead of completely rethinking the hardware, they just plunked Android in place of Windows and called it good. You see, there's no innovation. They just replace one piece for another and keep everything connected the same way. And then something changes -- like the navigation provider no longer offers a board to physically integrate with the unit, instead, they only offer a piece of software. Now for you or me, this seems like an ideal opportunity to restructure things easily, because the MCU mode concept no longer applies to the navigation. But they don't innovate, so they keep the MCU mode concept, and create a layer of software to link the MCU and the state of the navigation software together unnecessarily. And the sound -- they had an external sound mixer controlled by the MCU to decide which sound source should play back, and even though Android can control it (because they had to extend the mode concept into software that runs on Android), they keep it with the MCU.
And what you can see now, is a massively complex piece of horribly buggy and completely unnecessary software that is running just to avoid having to rethink the relationships between the different elements of the system. And this is even after Android is basically forcing a new paradigm on them by implementing the entire IVI interface and providing HALs and state machines to manage all the different aspects of car hardware. Presuming that they aren't outright lying about having stepped up to Android 8, then they must have gone to rather extreme lengths just to keep on with their buggy and horribly out of date approach. And we all know that they make absolutely horrible compromises in the security of the devices in order to accomplish this, things like setting selinux to permissive. Hacks to "make it work".
Now here is the crazy thing.... you have at least two outfits whose business is to actually manufacture the hardware and make these car radios work -- you've got FYT and you've got MTC. Each of them have a bunch of people who are working their butts off to avoid doing anything that is even remotely innovative -- just make the same thing work with the newer hardware, or the newer Android, or whatever. And then on the flip side, you can have *just one guy* do, in his spare time, something like this; https://gitlab.com/HiKey960-Car -- and that is using the full and proper Android 8 (or 9, its all open source...) Automotive IVI interface, and controlling all the hardware properly using HALs that are designed for the particular purposes. The sound is all controlled by the Audio HAL. The AMFM radio is controlled by the broadcastradio HAL. The GPS is controlled by the GPS HAL. etc. There is still an MCU, but that is mainly for its ADC in order to implement the steering wheel interface.
So to address your question about the MCU and its relationship to CAN, why it has both an external CAN controller as well as one built into the MCU.... They're not using the one built into the MCU because doing so would require them to write new code for the MCU in order to do the same thing that they see as already working, and that is borderline innovative, so we can't have that.
The can box doesn't filter much (or anything). There is a poop ton of vehicle specific code for can in their mess of unnecessary java code.
Now to be quite honest with you, I would never even consider attaching the CAN interface of a chinese car radio up to my car. And the reason is that it introduces a *safety* threat. https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/blackhat-jeep-cherokee-hack-explained/9493/ -- if you read that, you'll see that in the vehicle in question, they had to (a) hack the wifi, (b) hack the cellular network connection, (c) hack the IVI, (d) hack from that into another device that had CAN access because this IVI wasn't actually connected to the CAN directly, (e) rewrite the firmware on a CAN interface controller. After all this, they were able to control things like *steering and brakes*, completely remotely over the internet, wherever the vehicle happened to be.
That kind of hack is scary as heck, and in that case, there was a setup that clearly had a whole bunch of security features implemented, like an "air gap" between the radio and the CAN, and a CAN controller that was programmed to read, but not write. Even with all that, they were able to take over the vehicle and crash it off the road. Now if you want my opinion on connecting a chinese car radio directly to a car's CAN... not a chance! That chinese car radio has no air gap. Its CAN controller is NOT programmed to read-only. That radio has security features intentionally disabled by the manufacturer. That radio actually makes network connections to various untrusted/untrustworthy servers all over the world with unknown security problems (connect it to your home wifi/router and take a peek at the TCP connections it establishes).
