[ROM] [DEV] Archlinux Phone - GNU/Linux for Android devices project

[mirhl]

And just to make it clear, postmarketOS does not fit the Halium model, as it avoids the Android build system entirely and does not run any part of the Android userspace next to its more or less typical Linux userspace.

Noble scope and all, but no way you can consider freedreno/mesa usable.
Then perhaps in the future it may even become a thing, on way newer phones. Very hardly on A2xx.

EDIT: just checked gpu/drm/msm better, and A2xx doesn't even seem mainlined at all.
EDIT2: and it makes sense too. That's actually what the wiki was saying.
For some relatively petty reason, A2xx never got support of official DRM/KMS mainline driver.
I.e. we are stuck with the other one, KGSL, that qualcomm in all its infinite almost-openness got refused long time ago.
It's a bit bitchy to get to work with freedreno userspace - still it should work too.
Only pity is that since maintainer could never work on it on actual hardware, the thing misses tons and tons of polishing, aside of what I assume mostly guesswork.

So, the proper way forward™ imo seems to be getting whatever it needs for S3 to work on 3.10 (where some branches that didn't drop A2xx even exist and are still getting updated today!) - then hoping that's similar enough to modern kernels not to spoil the fun of coding to good Rob (if he still has some spare dragonboard available)

EDIT3: very, very interesting bases.

 

[mickybart]

What about PostmarketOS? Isn't the goal similar to this project?

No because PostmarketOS do not use glibc and libhybris so there is not a full Android hardware support. The GPU is not supported and FB is used for example.

Very great news, @mickybart! Thank you and Halium team.

Which phone do you recommend to be future proof for Halium| especially your ArchLinux works?

(I have understood, that there is no way around systemd currently. So ArchLinux it is.)

Which are the relevant repositories on Github for a minimalistic non GUI ArchLinux? Is it only GNU_support? Just trying to understand your magic better. :fingers-crossed:

In fact Archlinux can works on top of Halium. So any phone well supported by Halium can do the job.
You can use any init but Halium will focus only on systemd as it is used by so many major distribution. Systemd is working fine but of course we can't use every systemd features due to the kernel level.

For a non-GUI archlinux (or maybe you mean non-libhybris), pretty much everything is working for Xperia S already (so I mean, wifi, boot, usb port). Bluetooth is untested.

So you just need the kernel and initrd of the gnulinux_support repository for that.
You can create a rootfs with this project:
https://github.com/mickybart/rootfs-builder/tree/archlinux

This is the one used for Archlinux/Halium but not everything is merged. You just need to remove the halium.list part on customization/halium/package-lists.

You can follow halium website or telegram too.

 

[bigsupersquid]

I didn't see a direct link for the halium project, so dug one up myself.
https://halium.org/
Nice work, I need to look into Arch on phones. My previous attempts have all been using Debian or Ubuntu. Never did get ofono or libhybris working while I was directly booting Linux, but WiFi and Bluetooth worked ok with a bit of GL acceleration from freedreno libs on the old adreno 200.
Nice that Arch supports armv6 and armv5te as well... Ubuntu stopped long ago and, while Debian supports older chips, it seems harder to configure hardware.

 

[mirhl]

@mickybart
https://github.com/flto/linux-next/commits/tenderloin

 

[worlddevelopment]

@mickybart
https://github.com/flto/linux-next/commits/tenderloin

Excuse me sir, which commits are you referring to explicitely? Has something happened on linux-next that makes us reach a full easy to use GUI linux on ARM phones soon?

I heard about improvements to lib input related to touch. Reliable open AI comprehension of human-like languages for real voice control might still be unavailable but proper [multi-]touch input on linux looks O.K.
https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/drivers/hid/hid-multitouch.c
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchscreen

mickybart, wifi and serial communication is enough, bluetooth is not important to me. I wondered whether one might create an open phone using beaglebone blue. It has wifi, we can add an XBee with GSM or LTE, sim card slot, Kernel-well supported touch screen and print a nice case or make it fit elegant available ones and there we go ...

 

[mirhl]

That already happened. Check postmarketOS for other newer xperia devices.
The commits I'm referring to with relevance to fuji are those concerning the adreno 2xx gpu which, obviously, is the elephant in the room.

I don't know what you are over about then. It's not like we are even 1/4 done here.
Mickybart announced his retirement besides, so RIP.

 

[worlddevelopment]

The GPU is the elephant in the room not to a phone as a communication device.
If you think of a phone like a media device, then this statement is true. Or did I miss something and CPU-rendered minimal Xorg or Wayland + Openbox or other lightweight DE GUI is not possible on a CPU only system?

The idea with Convergence is to have programs written once and run on all devices. Write a bash script that queries your server services or does network analysis and information gathering while abroad or on the road via voice control.

This is the definition of a modern phone to real world applications for real world people. Not playing games to get time pass by. Time is already rare because tech probs are very wide spread nowadays. In this sense it is understandable that Mickybart retired.
Still convergence will not retire at all.

If you say we are 1/4 here, then why not break the problem to the most minimal configuration. Why even deal with an elephant if one can leave it alone in peace and smartly bypass it. This is what ArchLinux is about in the first place. KISS.

 

[mirhl]

CPU compositing would suck on a desktop, let alone a senior phone.

And I'm totally shocked by whatever regard of "real people" you have - while talking about nuking 90% of what the phone could even afford to do.

 

[worlddevelopment]

On a desktop with the proper display sizes and input devices just play or 3D create or heavy GPU GUI enjoy in general what you want. Just joking. Has nothing to do with being real or not. That wording I chose was not helpful. I just wanted to provoke people to rethink the convergence goals to start with basics, i.e. GPU optional.

This would make our lives easier because no doubt you are right, GPU is the elephant in the room. Aren't most GPU closed source anyway. Isn't it an illusion to be able to keep up with the pace of GPU companies with freetime effort?

There is a reason why Linux has issues with modern graphics cards.

Any evidence for it sucking btw.? Sucking is application dependent. I have a CPU only PC since decades. No issue even with heavy blender3d use. Maybe it's because I am on slick ArchLinux. :highfive:

Intelligence and speech and other algorithms surely not "nuke 90%" of what the phone could do.
Do you know 0A.D.? It is not the GUI that leads to performance issues. It's the algorithms (like pathfinding) that are costly. And those do not need a GUI. I remember profiling showing the graphics is just a tiny fraction of the time spent. Unfortunately GPU coding is not easy with OpenGL and who really is a Vulcan coding expert?

For many open source efforts nowadays not even full OpenGL support is there and Vulcan is far away. Simply because it is work, a lot of work. And now you tell me the GPU is worth it? Won't we fall far behind and apart. Exhausted resources of some few well-motivated humans. At some point devs abandon projects. That's often because momentum is less than the overwhelming amount of work to be done and thus time to be spent. Consider mickybart?

I think it's in our open, free community's interest to keep things simple and target command line + CPU usage. Then attack GPU support as a bonus once all the rest works reliably and epic and can spread to a big enough developer community to not only survive at the edge of existence but have the GUI LinuxPhones live as useful ethical device in the center of our world and values.

Of course I agree GPU is extremely useful for algorithms so it does no harm supporting it in general. I am not saying it's nonsense to support a GPU. My point is to reduce the problem to exclude the GPU and get all else going to finally be 3/4 there and get convergence happen to reach final audience.

Because convergence would be a major plus for Linux/Android.