Should Carriers have the right to use CarrierIQ?

[twolostminds]

This thread is to discuss CarrierIQ with its current capabilities. It is not to debate the performance benefits that may or may not occur when it is removed.
We all know that CarrierIQ currently does not log any information, but logging and transmission can be activated at any time without user notification.

The objective of this thread is to discuss user privacy and safety. We all agree that a carrier has the right to gather reasonable metrics about their network. The question at hand is does a carrier have the right to use a software package as potentially invasive as CarrierIQ.

Please do not engage in flaming or a thread war. Respect eachothers opinions and share your own.


EDIT: 6/5/2011 1:18PM EASTERN TIME

For disclosure purposes I fully admit I am NOT a developer. I do not create ROM's nor have I ever removed CIQ from a ROM. The information I have posted has been provided to me by 3rd party sources. Unfortunately I can not release their documentation at this time. I ask that each member in this discussion to please provide any information they feel comfortable providing on CIQ that either supports or disputes the capabilities I have posted. Also, please provide any links to other sources you may wish to.

I am asking this because I do not wish this thread to become an argument over theory and supposition of what CIQ is or isn't capable of.

EDIT 6/5/2011 2:32PM EASTERN TIME

One of my purposes of this thread is to bring to light the full potential of CIQ. There are many very intelligent, very experienced developers on XDA and I am hoping they will take the time to provide information on what they have learned about CIQ. It was also created to gauge the Samsung Epic users feelings on just how invasive CIQ is as implemented in the Epic.

As for contacting representatives on a state and federal level as well my state attorney's office, I have. I urge anyone who is concerned about CIQ to do the same.
United States House of Representatives
United States Senators of the 112th Congress

Also contact directly the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Privacy who are investigating Apple & Google's invasion of consumer privacy.

I will be the first to admit that I am not a great orator or writer. I would like to ask the forum members who feel that CIQ as it is implemented is too invasive and should be removed. Maybe a paralegal?? I believe all carriers have the right to protect their network, gather metrics and improve services for their customer base. There are many ways for a carrier to do this but CIQ as it is implemented in Android phones is far too invasive.

 

[austin420]

yes they do. just like you have the right to not buy a cellphone from them.

 

[chris41g]

they have the /right/ to do whatever you sign a contract allowing them to do...

 

[Shoulon]

they have the /right/ to do whatever you sign a contract allowing them to do...

That include a no contract phone? I recall only signing for my unlimited everything plan. And ovbiously the terms of use and blabla.

Sent from my Epix 4G using XDA

 

[chris41g]

That include a no contract phone? I recall only signing for my unlimited everything plan. And ovbiously the terms of use and blabla.

Sent from my Epix 4G using XDA

willing to bet its in the terms of use about analysis of usage patterns and so on and so forth

 

[twolostminds]

they have the /right/ to do whatever you sign a contract allowing them to do...

I'm sorry, I must of missed where in the contract that it states they can have access to your contacts list, calendar information, user names and passwords of webpages you visit, the content of your text messages, and much much more.

Can you provide a link to that clause in the contract?

 

[southpark-droid]

That include a no contract phone? I recall only signing for my unlimited everything plan. And ovbiously the terms of use and blabla.

Sent from my Epix 4G using XDA

it would be in the terms and conditions of service.

 

[twolostminds]

yes they do. just like you have the right to not buy a cellphone from them.

They did not disclose that this spyware was on the phone when I signed a 2 year contract. The capabilities of this software are a blatant violation of privacy. Don't think just because the law has not caught up with technology that it is not.

 

[josidhe]

When you ship something overseas, customs has the right to examine that shipment. Is that a violation of privacy? I don't remember signing an agreement etc etc.

People grossly misunderstand rights, and there are better battles to be fighting than whether a machine is processing and dumping your sexts somewhere. But I guess life must be pretty easy and sweet if this battlefield is your top priority.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[chris41g]

remember if you take the phone off their network, they cant track anything.. they have the right to do as they see fit as long as you are on their network.... regardless, dont like it, dont use the network.

 

[twolostminds]

When you ship something overseas, customs has the right to examine that shipment. Is that a violation of privacy? I don't remember signing an agreement etc etc.

People grossly misunderstand rights, and there are better battles to be fighting than whether a machine is processing and dumping your sexts somewhere. But I guess life must be pretty easy and sweet if this battlefield is your top priority.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

Custom's is a government agency and the governments of each country had to create laws to specifically allow customs agents to inspect packages. Wireless carriers are NOT governments.
I believe carriers HAVE THE RIGHT to collect metrics to improve and protect their networks. CarrierIQ has that ability. BUT, CarrierIQ as implemented in Sprint's Android phones also has the ability to monitor, read and transmit your contact list, your calendar, your pictures with geo-tagging information embedded (remember, the FROYO release took away your ability to disable geo-tagging photo's), it keylogs so it has the ability to transmit the page you visited along with your user name and password. These are NOT things that a carrier has a right to be able to know. Whether CarrierIQ is currently logging this information or not, NO carrier has the right to install software on a phone that with a simple command has the ability to be that invasive.

 

[chris41g]

http://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml?ECID=vanity:termsandconditions


Protecting Our Network & Services
We can take any action to: (1) protect our network, our rights and interests, or the rights of others; or (2) optimize or improve the overall use of our network and Services. Some of these actions may interrupt or prevent legitimate communications and usage - for example, message filtering/blocking software to prevent SPAM or viruses, limiting throughput, limiting access to certain websites, applications or other Data Content, prohibitions on unintended uses (for example, use as a dedicated line, or use as a monitoring service), etc. For additional information on what we do to protect our customers, network, Services and equipment, see our Acceptable Use Policy and Visitor Agreement at our website.

Your Privacy
Our Privacy Policy is available on our website. To review the policy, visit www.sprint.com/legal/privacy.html. This policy may change from time to time, so review it with regularity and care.

-------------------------------------------

Information that we automatically collect. We automatically receive certain types of information whenever you use our Services. We may collect information about your device, your computer, and online activities. For example, we collect your device's and computer's IP address, the date and time of your access and the type of browser you use. We also collect information about your device's and computer's operating system, your location, and the Web site from which you came and then went and Web sites you visit on your device. We may link information we automatically collect with personal information, such as information you give us at registration or check out.

Information we collect when we provide you with Services includes when your wireless device is turned on, how your device is functioning, device signal strength, where it is located, what device you are using, what you have purchased with your device, how you are using it, and what sites you visit.

We may use systems or tools to follow your use of our Services, including using cookies, web beacons and other tracking mechanisms. For example, we allow collection by analytic service provider(s) of site click-stream and cookie data to help us track aggregate and individual use of our Services. We sometimes use cookies to enable features on our sites, like the ability to save your shopping cart or set preferences. Advertisers and advertising networks that serve ads on our sites may also use their own mechanisms, like cookies. These third party cookies are governed by the privacy policies of the entities placing the ads and are not subject to this Policy.

USE OF PERSONAL INFORMATION

We use your personal information for a variety of purposes, including providing you with Services. We use your personal information to do things like:

Process your orders.
Protect our and our customers' rights and property.
Respond to legal process and emergencies.
Develop or inform you of new products and services.
Anonymize or aggregate personal information for various purposes like market analysis or traffic flow analysis and reporting.
Customize or personalize your experience with our Services.
Customize or personalize advertising and communications to bring you information about products and services of Sprint Nextel or others that may interest you, including co-branded offers. For example, we may customize the ads you see when you are using our Internet-enabled devices. If we use information about your online activities to deliver advertising or communications tailored to your interests, we may share that information with third parties who select tailored advertising.
Monitor, evaluate or improve our Services, systems, or networks.

 

[CrfEpic4g]

When you ship something overseas, customs has the right to examine that shipment. Is that a violation of privacy? I don't remember signing an agreement etc etc.

People grossly misunderstand rights, and there are better battles to be fighting than whether a machine is processing and dumping your sexts somewhere. But I guess life must be pretty easy and sweet if this battlefield is your top priority.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

YES but when your shipping its for security make sure your not transporting illegal merchandise its completely different

 

[ghostrid3r]

http://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml?ECID=vanity:termsandconditions


Protecting Our Network & Services
We can take any action to: (1) protect our network, our rights and interests, or the rights of others; or (2) optimize or improve the overall use of our network and Services. Some of these actions may interrupt or prevent legitimate communications and usage - for example, message filtering/blocking software to prevent SPAM or viruses, limiting throughput, limiting access to certain websites, applications or other Data Content, prohibitions on unintended uses (for example, use as a dedicated line, or use as a monitoring service), etc. For additional information on what we do to protect our customers, network, Services and equipment, see our Acceptable Use Policy and Visitor Agreement at our website.

Your Privacy
Our Privacy Policy is available on our website. To review the policy, visit www.sprint.com/legal/privacy.html. This policy may change from time to time, so review it with regularity and care.

-------------------------------------------

Information that we automatically collect. We automatically receive certain types of information whenever you use our Services. We may collect information about your device, your computer, and online activities. For example, we collect your device's and computer's IP address, the date and time of your access and the type of browser you use. We also collect information about your device's and computer's operating system, your location, and the Web site from which you came and then went and Web sites you visit on your device. We may link information we automatically collect with personal information, such as information you give us at registration or check out.

Information we collect when we provide you with Services includes when your wireless device is turned on, how your device is functioning, device signal strength, where it is located, what device you are using, what you have purchased with your device, how you are using it, and what sites you visit.

We may use systems or tools to follow your use of our Services, including using cookies, web beacons and other tracking mechanisms. For example, we allow collection by analytic service provider(s) of site click-stream and cookie data to help us track aggregate and individual use of our Services. We sometimes use cookies to enable features on our sites, like the ability to save your shopping cart or set preferences. Advertisers and advertising networks that serve ads on our sites may also use their own mechanisms, like cookies. These third party cookies are governed by the privacy policies of the entities placing the ads and are not subject to this Policy.

USE OF PERSONAL INFORMATION

We use your personal information for a variety of purposes, including providing you with Services. We use your personal information to do things like:

Process your orders.
Protect our and our customers' rights and property.
Respond to legal process and emergencies.
Develop or inform you of new products and services.
Anonymize or aggregate personal information for various purposes like market analysis or traffic flow analysis and reporting.
Customize or personalize your experience with our Services.
Customize or personalize advertising and communications to bring you information about products and services of Sprint Nextel or others that may interest you, including co-branded offers. For example, we may customize the ads you see when you are using our Internet-enabled devices. If we use information about your online activities to deliver advertising or communications tailored to your interests, we may share that information with third parties who select tailored advertising.
Monitor, evaluate or improve our Services, systems, or networks.

/End Discussion

Quote by SYMS "An educated consumer is our best customer"

 

[twolostminds]

http://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml?ECID=vanity:termsandconditions


Protecting Our Network & Services
We can take any action to: (1) protect our network, our rights and interests, or the rights of others; or (2) optimize or improve the overall use of our network and Services. Some of these actions may interrupt or prevent legitimate communications and usage - for example, message filtering/blocking software to prevent SPAM or viruses, limiting throughput, limiting access to certain websites, applications or other Data Content, prohibitions on unintended uses (for example, use as a dedicated line, or use as a monitoring service), etc. For additional information on what we do to protect our customers, network, Services and equipment, see our Acceptable Use Policy and Visitor Agreement at our website.

Your Privacy
Our Privacy Policy is available on our website. To review the policy, visit www.sprint.com/legal/privacy.html. This policy may change from time to time, so review it with regularity and care.

-------------------------------------------

Information that we automatically collect. We automatically receive certain types of information whenever you use our Services. We may collect information about your device, your computer, and online activities. For example, we collect your device's and computer's IP address, the date and time of your access and the type of browser you use. We also collect information about your device's and computer's operating system, your location, and the Web site from which you came and then went and Web sites you visit on your device. We may link information we automatically collect with personal information, such as information you give us at registration or check out.

Information we collect when we provide you with Services includes when your wireless device is turned on, how your device is functioning, device signal strength, where it is located, what device you are using, what you have purchased with your device, how you are using it, and what sites you visit.

We may use systems or tools to follow your use of our Services, including using cookies, web beacons and other tracking mechanisms. For example, we allow collection by analytic service provider(s) of site click-stream and cookie data to help us track aggregate and individual use of our Services. We sometimes use cookies to enable features on our sites, like the ability to save your shopping cart or set preferences. Advertisers and advertising networks that serve ads on our sites may also use their own mechanisms, like cookies. These third party cookies are governed by the privacy policies of the entities placing the ads and are not subject to this Policy.

USE OF PERSONAL INFORMATION

We use your personal information for a variety of purposes, including providing you with Services. We use your personal information to do things like:

Process your orders.
Protect our and our customers' rights and property.
Respond to legal process and emergencies.
Develop or inform you of new products and services.
Anonymize or aggregate personal information for various purposes like market analysis or traffic flow analysis and reporting.
Customize or personalize your experience with our Services.
Customize or personalize advertising and communications to bring you information about products and services of Sprint Nextel or others that may interest you, including co-branded offers. For example, we may customize the ads you see when you are using our Internet-enabled devices. If we use information about your online activities to deliver advertising or communications tailored to your interests, we may share that information with third parties who select tailored advertising.
Monitor, evaluate or improve our Services, systems, or networks.

I have thoroughly read the above information and the context they are used in. No where, absolutely no where does the information they refer to consist of the information that CarrierIQ has access to.

CarrierIQ has that ability. BUT, CarrierIQ as implemented in Sprint's Android phones also has the ability to monitor, read and transmit your contact list, your calendar, your pictures with geo-tagging information embedded (remember, the FROYO release took away your ability to disable geo-tagging photo's), it keylogs so it has the ability to transmit the page you visited along with your user name and password

Sprint is very specific about the types of personal information they may collect.

Yes, they are allowed to know the websites you go to.
No, they are not allowed to know your username and password.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

Yes, they are allowed to know how ofter you text, the size of your texts and if it is sent to someone in or out of Sprint's network.
No, they are not allowed to know the exact content of that text message.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

Yes, they are allowed to know the how many calls you make, how often you make calls and for how long.
No, they are not allowed to know what information in your contacts list is associated with that number.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

Yes, they are allowed to know you take pictures with your phone.
No, they are not allowed to know where you take those pictures and have access to those pictures.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

No, they are not allowed to know what is in your calendar.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

No, they are not allowed to know what you do with your phone when off their network, such as when using WiFi.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

No, they are not allowed to know EVERYTHING you type on your hardware or software keyboard when creating word processing documents.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

The capabilities of CarrierIQ as implemented on Sprint's Android phones goes far beyond the rights of a carrier to protect, patrol and improve its network. The capabilities of CarrierIQ goes far beyond reasonable interpretation of the legal agreement. CarrierIQ as it is implemented on Android phones is a direct violation of personal privacy.

Why am I stirring up this storm? It is not because my life is so simple, free and easy that this is my top priority. It is because history has taught us that this is just the start. If we as customers do not voice our dissatisfaction now it will only get worse, more invasive.

 

[The Root]

http://shop2.sprint.com/en/legal/legal_terms_privacy_popup.shtml?ECID=vanity:termsandconditions



Anonymize or aggregate personal information for various purposes like market analysis or traffic flow analysis and reporting.
Customize or personalize your experience with our Services.
Customize or personalize advertising and communications to bring you information about products and services of Sprint Nextel or others that may interest you, including co-branded offers. For example, we may customize the ads you see when you are using our Internet-enabled devices. If we use information about your online activities to deliver advertising or communications tailored to your interests, we may share that information with third parties who select tailored advertising.
Monitor, evaluate or improve our Services, systems, or networks.

here it is.

 

[faceless]

"We can take any action to: (1) protect our network, our rights and interests, or the rights of others; or (2) optimize or improve the overall use of our network and Services."

that pretty much covers anything that isn't illegal.

they have the right to charge for tethering and they have the right to use Carrier IQ.

i have the right to tether for free and disable Carrier IQ

they have the right to terminate my contract if they find out.

 

[chris41g]

i think you have a gross misinterpretation of /allowed/... who says? why are they not allowed to do these things? first off, if you read the full thing like you said you did, there is no inclusive list of what they can or cannot, do or do not monitor or analyse. further more, you sound like you either know more than a lot of people about carrieriq or you are talking out of your ass on its capabilities....

 

[twolostminds]

"We can take any action to: (1) protect our network, our rights and interests, or the rights of others; or (2) optimize or improve the overall use of our network and Services."

that pretty much covers anything that isn't illegal.

they have the right to charge for tethering and they have the right to use Carrier IQ.

i have the right to tether for free and disable Carrier IQ

they have the right to terminate my contract if they find out.

1. Lets keep this thread on topic and keep the tethering debate out of it.

2. "We can take any action to: (1) protect our network, our rights and interests, or the rights of others; or (2) optimize or improve the overall use of our network and Services."
--- Does not give them the right to deeply invade ones privacy, expose them to the possibility of identity theft or create an environment that may endanger the customer or his/her family. The quoted portion gives them the right to protect their network and gather private information bound by what is legally considered "within reason". The following are not "within reason" in the eyes of the judicial system.

Yes, they are allowed to know the websites you go to.
No, they are not allowed to know your username and password.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

Yes, they are allowed to know how ofter you text, the size of your texts and if it is sent to someone in or out of Sprint's network.
No, they are not allowed to know the exact content of that text message.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

Yes, they are allowed to know the how many calls you make, how often you make calls and for how long.
No, they are not allowed to know what information in your contacts list is associated with that number.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

Yes, they are allowed to know you take pictures with your phone.
No, they are not allowed to know where you take those pictures and have access to those pictures.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

No, they are not allowed to know what is in your calendar.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

No, they are not allowed to know what you do with your phone when off their network, such as when using WiFi.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

No, they are not allowed to know EVERYTHING you type on your hardware or software keyboard when creating word processing documents.
CarrierIQ gives them this ability as it is implemented in their Android phones.

 

[chris41g]

first, i would like you to show something backing that they are not allowed to do what you claim they can... then... show something supporting they can even do that that with CIQ? otherwise you are wasting your breath...