• Introducing XDA Computing: Discussion zones for Hardware, Software, and more!    Check it out!

*Solved: CHF3D Plugins done* no Mali-GPU support for some games (texture compr.)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Search This thread

TML1504

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2007
1,020
353
Vienna
hi,

just a short info for everyone who wants to use x-plane (the best flight-sim atm) as well as some other high-end games on the sgs2:

since i have my sgs2 i wasn't able to run the game "x-plane", it always gave me the error message "Error detecting texture compression formats"

yesterday i wrote an email to folks @laminar research! today they contacted me and asked me if i could provide a logcat protocol of the x-plane crash. few minutes later i received a reply from Chris, stating that the reason is indeed the Mali-400 MP used by our SGS2!

"the Mali-400 GPU doesn't support any texture compression formats that XPlane requires (PVR, ATITC, DXT). It only supports ETC which we cannot use for various reasons."

perhaps this info is usefull not only for x-plane users, because
"A lot of premium content games are going to hit this issue as well. I'm a bit astounded at this discovery but their own documentation confirms it."

also laminar was very friendly and offered me a refund!

i hope this can be fixed in the future...

regards,
markus

update 21.05.2011:
i think all people concerned have read and understood the actual situation,
to make it short for new readers here a small update of the current situation:
the problem is not mali, but developers not using standard ETC texture compression
(which is the ONLY specified OpenGL ES texture compression format), for various
reasons (for example such as simple product politics).

what does this mean for us:
because of the big impact the SGS2 will probably have, developers will sooner
or later support ETC. some games (from gameloft) have already beed updated.
this is a step into the right direction, especially because as said by some members
this could at least be some counterpart to android fragmentation.

nevertheless, as long as some developers insist to use (only) DXTn, ATITC or PVRTC
this games (or programms) wont work on SG2, BUT:

the fabulous genius CHAINFIRE has programmed an application called Chainfire3D,
which "is an intermediary OpenGL driver. What does that mean? It means that
Chainfire3D sits between your apps and the graphics drivers, and can intercept
and/or change commands between the two. It has some built-in functions, and
can be further extended with plugins to provide extra functionality."
see here for details: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1087427

what we would need now is a developer who sacrifices a few hours to build us some
plugins (warning: maybe there are legal issues, so this has to be clarified as well),
which should be, according to chainfire, no real problem for a skilled programmer:
"To make some of these plugins work you will need to add a bit of code. Though
well documented in various places on the internet, in various countries this trivial
code is protected by patent law, which is why it is not included in the source or
binary packages."
all information which is needed is in the before mentioned thread from chainfire,
just look into his API document...

soooo, can someone please be so nice to have a look at the creation of the needed
plugins?? this would be the last step necessary for getting all the games or
programs we want to work!
:))


update 23.05.2011:
regarding the plugins:
just google for "chainfire" and open your eyes!!!

:D:D:D
 
Last edited:

TML1504

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2007
1,020
353
Vienna
Hi, do you get these games from android market?
hi, i bought x-plane in the market around christmas, was on my "old" desire hd! there it worked without any problem!

since a few hours laminar has disabled xplane for the SGS2 in the market, so if you search for it there you won't find it! if you want to see it though you would have to use a software such as market enabler! but again: it wont work!!
 

TML1504

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2007
1,020
353
Vienna
If the Mali 400 doesn't support this, then which gpu's processors do?

Ian

as far as i know all adreno chipsets (200, 205 and 220 used by HTC), the "old" PowerVR SGX540 of the SGS1 and many more.

really strange that samsung decided to do not support these texture compression types anymore...

AND: hopefully some clever dev can fix this! :)
 

awesome-member

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2010
198
19
kent uk
As much as I'd like dev to optimise games for this device I highly doubt this is going to happen. Even Samsung has shortage of its own new soc and there aren't any major phone manufacturer using Mali.it gives devs very little incentive to code these games for Mali.until Samsung really makes an effort or this device becomes extreamly popular only few games will be available for us. I still can't understand why Samsung didn't stick with power VR.


Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
 

juniorbattle

Senior Member
Aug 3, 2010
74
3
I just wonder if this can be fixed via software update. If I had SGS2, I'd contact Samsung. Any chances for you guys to do that? I can't believe they messed the gaming part so much...
 

tomhoward

Member
May 5, 2011
23
6
That's a real shame, was thinking about getting that game, quite a fan of the desktop version.
I also wonder what else it will effect, not good for their new flagship Android phone.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
 

murklor

Senior Member
Aug 18, 2008
73
16
as far as i know all adreno chipsets (200, 205 and 220 used by HTC), the "old" PowerVR SGX540 of the SGS1 and many more.

really strange that samsung decided to do not support these texture compression types anymore...

AND: hopefully some clever dev can fix this! :)
Actually its optional.

ETC (which X-Plane doesnt support) is the ONLY specified OpenGL ES texture compression. All compliant devices must have it.

DXT is Nvidia specific (ie Tegra) and if others use it its licensed.

PVRTC is PowerVR specific (ie SGX) and just like DXT, if others use it its licensed.

So what you are looking at isnt "Samsung not supporting it" - its Android hardware fragmentation at its best. So while it may be a critical hardware flaw of the Mali-400, its not like they've done anything wrong.

Wanna bet that all these "OMFG TEGRA 2 ULTRA-AWESOME-POWER" games simply use DXT compression to lock out the games from other platform, while having pretty much same image quality?

Of course its only we consumers that suffer in the end. And people wonder how the singular platform known as iPhone became so popular despite its flaws, lol.
 

kostasalfa

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2008
278
5
Actually its optional.

ETC (which X-Plane doesnt support) is the ONLY specified OpenGL ES texture compression. All compliant devices must have it.

DXT is Nvidia specific (ie Tegra) and if others use it its licensed.

PVRTC is PowerVR specific (ie SGX) and just like DXT, if others use it its licensed.

So what you are looking at isnt "Samsung not supporting it" - its Android hardware fragmentation at its best. So while it may be a critical hardware flaw of the Mali-400, its not like they've done anything wrong.

Wanna bet that all these "OMFG TEGRA 2 ULTRA-AWESOME-POWER" games simply use DXT compression to lock out the games from other platform, while having pretty much same image quality?

Of course its only we consumers that suffer in the end. And people wonder how the singular platform known as iPhone became so popular despite its flaws, lol.

+ 1

That sums it all up great my friend


Sent from my LG-P990 using XDA App
 

Funkym0nkey

Senior Member
Jul 10, 2007
916
355
Moving around in the ancient land
Actually there is nothing wrong with Mali. Its fully OpenGL ES 2.x complaint.
And its about time someone made the move Samsung made with Mali.
All texture compression formats that OP mentioned are proprietyformats.
DXT, PVRTC, ATITC are not part of OpenGL ES API.
All current devices support OpenGL ES. Tegra, PoweVR, Mali all must support it to be OpenGL ES complaint. But all of them for their own interest support some propriety
compression formats and so far game developers had been using them.
So dont complain to Samsung, but rather demand game developers to stick to the standard that all devices will be following.
Its about time the so called hardware fragmentation is dealt with properly. And it can be achieved only by sticking to the open Standards that are in place.

So if you have bought X-Planes, complain to developers and demand a version that uses the standard API and not sticking to propriety standards.

And if someone can force this change, its Samsung. The game developers simply cant ignore the Samsung devices with shear number of devices they will be selling. Its good for the Android gaming scene. And I am glad that this happened.
 

nk7600

Senior Member
May 26, 2010
138
18
TBH it will all come down to how popular the SGS2 is. If more Tegra devices get sold, that will be the lead format. However, it all depends as that isn't taken into account the marketing that Nvidia is pushing towards developers.

I bought the O2X over the SGS2 because I felt that Tegra would get more support from developers. Nvidia are pushing Tegra with there marketing, but Samsung aren‘t..

Overtime each chipset will be compatable, but at the moment. The Galaxy S2 is a new product and needs a good 6 months plus for things to be optimised.
 

Jude188

Member
Jan 7, 2010
5
0
This fragmentation is getting unbelievable... So now we can't use Tegra 2 games or games which rely on other proprietary format... Really disappointing... Hope devs will sort this out soon...
 

RyanZA

Senior Member
Jan 21, 2006
2,023
778
JHB
It should be possible to modify/hack any Tegra 2 came to work with some fairly straight forward conversion, and maybe a small smali hack to set the opengl texture format there as well.

In short: it's not impossible to get around it.
 

rovex

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2008
1,129
217
Its nvidia all over really. They did it to the PC market as well with custom shaders and 'The way its meant to be played' scheme.
Its not JUST nvidia, its also the devs who are too lazy to use regular standards, Companies like nvidia help devs out, but do so by guiding them to use proprietary extensions.

Im not a great gamer anyway, so the Mali gives me what i value more, HD movie playback and full HD recording at 30fps. I love that i can just put a normal HD MKV file from the interwebs on my phone and it plays it flawlessly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top Liked Posts

  • There are no posts matching your filters.
  • 14
    as far as i know all adreno chipsets (200, 205 and 220 used by HTC), the "old" PowerVR SGX540 of the SGS1 and many more.

    really strange that samsung decided to do not support these texture compression types anymore...

    AND: hopefully some clever dev can fix this! :)
    Actually its optional.

    ETC (which X-Plane doesnt support) is the ONLY specified OpenGL ES texture compression. All compliant devices must have it.

    DXT is Nvidia specific (ie Tegra) and if others use it its licensed.

    PVRTC is PowerVR specific (ie SGX) and just like DXT, if others use it its licensed.

    So what you are looking at isnt "Samsung not supporting it" - its Android hardware fragmentation at its best. So while it may be a critical hardware flaw of the Mali-400, its not like they've done anything wrong.

    Wanna bet that all these "OMFG TEGRA 2 ULTRA-AWESOME-POWER" games simply use DXT compression to lock out the games from other platform, while having pretty much same image quality?

    Of course its only we consumers that suffer in the end. And people wonder how the singular platform known as iPhone became so popular despite its flaws, lol.
    8
    Already working on a fix :) I don't have the SGS2 yet, but I already have a lot of code running on my SGS that should be able to fix the problem in software.
    8
    Well the X-Plane devs are certainly lazy ;) All of this can be fixed in software.

    As others have stated, this is not a hardware issue. It would have been nice if Mali had supported multiple texture formats, but keep in mind that the two most used formats are PVRTC and ATITC, both of which are hardly documented and vendor specific (PVRTC - PowerVR, ATITC - Adreno) and neither are standards. Mali does support the one and only "standard" texture compression format.

    A bit miffed that after 4 years of releasing hacked 3D drivers implementing this sort of stuff, it still all isn't standard and I have to do it yet again... *sigh*

    I'm not close to release (I need an SGS2 first, and I don't expect it before the 23rd) but I have a complete intermediary OpenGL layer up and running (demonstrated here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NvRvMRkS4Q), that was the hard part.

    The plan is to ultimately support all formats supported by Android, but we'll see. Luckily for some of these formats (like ATITC) I have reverse engineered the format and written the relevant code years ago already :)
    6
    Actually there is nothing wrong with Mali. Its fully OpenGL ES 2.x complaint.
    And its about time someone made the move Samsung made with Mali.
    All texture compression formats that OP mentioned are proprietyformats.
    DXT, PVRTC, ATITC are not part of OpenGL ES API.
    All current devices support OpenGL ES. Tegra, PoweVR, Mali all must support it to be OpenGL ES complaint. But all of them for their own interest support some propriety
    compression formats and so far game developers had been using them.
    So dont complain to Samsung, but rather demand game developers to stick to the standard that all devices will be following.
    Its about time the so called hardware fragmentation is dealt with properly. And it can be achieved only by sticking to the open Standards that are in place.

    So if you have bought X-Planes, complain to developers and demand a version that uses the standard API and not sticking to propriety standards.

    And if someone can force this change, its Samsung. The game developers simply cant ignore the Samsung devices with shear number of devices they will be selling. Its good for the Android gaming scene. And I am glad that this happened.
    4
    Cant find it either. Remember that Google gives different results in different regions.
    it took me also a while to google it, just google for chainfire, this should do the trick...

    HIAPK

    hmmm, sometimes i have the strange habit to post words without meaning...
    damn drugs :D