Sony's Camera isn't great, but it could be worse...

[Cronis]

You know I get the frustration with the camera, given its hardware it should perform quite a bit better if matched with equivalent software.

But at the same time you really cannot compare this phone with other full sized phones. Its competition is the Samsung Alpha, HTC one mini and S5 mini. To find any real competition for this size range you have to look at a nokia or apple product.

With that in mind the Z3c is still the best camera out there in a compact android phone.

 

[Crewville96]

You know I get the frustration with the camera, given its hardware it should perform quite a bit better if matched with equivalent software.

But at the same time you really cannot compare this phone with other full sized phones. Its competition is the Samsung Alpha, HTC one mini and S5 mini. To find any real competition for this size range you have to look at a nokia or apple product.

With that in mind the Z3c is still the best camera out there in a compact android phone.

My old Droid Incredible 2 has a 4 inch screen, the Z3C is 4.6, so that theory is dead right there. Its a software problem, period. Everyone knows this.

 

[PuffDaddy_d]

You know I get the frustration with the camera, given its hardware it should perform quite a bit better if matched with equivalent software.

But at the same time you really cannot compare this phone with other full sized phones. Its competition is the Samsung Alpha, HTC one mini and S5 mini. To find any real competition for this size range you have to look at a nokia or apple product.

With that in mind the Z3c is still the best camera out there in a compact android phone.

I understand what you're saying, and even somewhat agree with you (in principle), but the size of the phone should have little to do with it's camera performance. The Z3C uses the same camera and software as the Z3 (which is a large phone) and it can't keep up with other flagship phones either. The article in my original post proves that. But not only can't it keep up with flagship devices, it's performance is hardly able to keep up with mid-range devices from YEARS ago!

Here's an indoor scene with fairly low light (not dark, just ambient light from the windows in the room). I took the same photo with 3 different phones (Z3C, iPhone 4, and Htc One Mini). I then cropped the photos to 100% so you could see the details of each photo. The Z3C is newer and has twice the resolution at 8MP than the obsolete HTC One Mini, and yet, the picture quality is somehow slightly worse than what either of these outdated phones can do. This is why we are complaining about the Z3C - not because we're comparing it to DSLR's.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/dscarter_tech/7Bdw3Z

https://www.flickr.com/gp/dscarter_tech/2RQ85E

https://www.flickr.com/gp/dscarter_tech/U06GRx

EDIT: Does anyone know why my photos aren't showing?!??!
(I gave up and just posted links)

 

[Crewville96]

Shouldn't it be [ img ][ /img ] (with no spaces)?

 

[PuffDaddy_d]

Shouldn't it be [ img ][ /img ] (with no spaces)?

I didn't see any spaces, so I just posted links instead. Thanks though

 

[Crewville96]

I understand what you're saying, and even somewhat agree with you (in principle), but the size of the phone should have little to do with it's camera performance. The Z3C uses the same camera and software as the Z3 (which is a large phone) and it can't keep up with other flagship phones either. The article in my original post proves that. But not only can't it keep up with flagship devices, it's performance is hardly able to keep up with mid-range devices from YEARS ago!

Here's an indoor scene with fairly low light (not dark, just ambient light from the windows in the room). I took the same photo with 3 different phones (Z3C, iPhone 4, and Htc One Mini). I then cropped the photos to 100% so you could see the details of each photo. The Z3C is newer and has twice the resolution at 8MP than the obsolete HTC One Mini, and yet, the picture quality is somehow slightly worse than what either of these outdated phones can do. This is why we are complaining about the Z3C - not because we're comparing it to DSLR's.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/dscarter_tech/7Bdw3Z

https://www.flickr.com/gp/dscarter_tech/2RQ85E

https://www.flickr.com/gp/dscarter_tech/U06GRx

EDIT: Does anyone know why my photos aren't showing?!??!
(I gave up and just posted links)

Yeah, those are all pretty crap

 

[Cronis]

My old Droid Incredible 2 has a 4 inch screen, the Z3C is 4.6, so that theory is dead right there. Its a software problem, period. Everyone knows this.

The Droid incredible 2 is also .14 inches thicker, which is enough to make a difference in a lense stack. While it might be older, having a better lense stack will make a big difference. just look at the high quality camera modules used in Nokia Phones, an N925 will blow most of the phone cameras available today out of the water and that "only" has an "old tech" 8.7 megapixel cam. The HTC incredible 2 was also one of the best reviewed phone cameras of its time.

I'm not arguing the fact that sony really dropped the ball on their camera software/drivers.

I'm curious, what other phones are using the same Sony sensor as the Z3c but are considered excellent phone cams?

 

[Crewville96]

The Droid incredible 2 is also .14 inches thicker, which is enough to make a difference in a lense stack. While it might be older, having a better lense stack will make a big difference. just look at the high quality camera modules used in Nokia Phones, an N925 will blow most of the phone cameras available today out of the water and that "only" has an "old tech" 8.7 megapixel cam. The HTC incredible 2 was also one of the best reviewed phone cameras of its time.

I'm not arguing the fact that sony really dropped the ball on their camera software/drivers.

I'm curious, what other phones are using the same Sony sensor as the Z3c but are considered excellent phone cams?

It's not just about hardware, software matters too. Example, the 2014 Moto X, LG G3, and Samsung Note 3 all have the same sensor (Sony Exmor IMX135), but everyone knows Moto can't make cameras and pics to save their lives. How can these three phones all have the same hardware (literally) but produce such wildly different pics?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor

 

[hawkeeyee]

I have z3c for few days but camera is big step from m7 and so far I've got pretty good pictures (manual mode, 15.5Mpix)

 

[PuffDaddy_d]

I have z3c for few days but camera is big step from m7 and so far I've got pretty good pictures (manual mode, 15.5Mpix)

Despite the fact that you switched to manual mode (we're taking auto mode here)...Yes, it has more resolution, and can take nice pictures outdoors, but it's indoor performance is the issue. The HTC one has always been known for lacking sharpness and detail because it was only 4mp, but when compared to other 8mp shooters of today and even yesteryears, the z3c still isn't as sharp when viewed side by side.

Once again, the article in the first post supports this. It's just disheartening to see our brand new $500 flagship phone get publicly embarrassed by finishing dead last in nearly every category. It's almost like Sony never checked their picture quality against the competition before releasing the phone.

Sent from my Xperia Z3 Compact

 

[handasan10]

The things that keep holding me now to Z3C is battery life, waterproof and magnetic charging..
Camera only produce stunning details when capturing close object other than that nothing to be proud of..

 

[Cronis]

It's not just about hardware, software matters too. Example, the 2014 Moto X, LG G3, and Samsung Note 3 all have the same sensor (Sony Exmor IMX135), but everyone knows Moto can't make cameras and pics to save their lives. How can these three phones all have the same hardware (literally) but produce such wildly different pics?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmor

OIS might have something to do with it in those examples at least. Making it very much a hardware issue. What if with such small high mp sensors the digital stabilization is just not enough anymore? Are there any examples of this sensor producing consistent good results without OIS?

 

[Crewville96]

OIS might have something to do with it in those examples at least. Making it very much a hardware issue. What if with such small high mp sensors the digital stabilization is just not enough anymore? Are there any examples of this sensor producing consistent good results without OIS?

Sony isn't a couple of guys on a forum though, they are f'ing Sony. They should be able to figure this sh*t out. At least make a damn camera that produces pics better than a phone from 4 years ago that by today's standard is a low end device in every single way imaginable. At least give me Moto X capable pics. Seriously, I had the first gen X before this, and while it took some truly awful pics, it was capable of good shots without having to play with the settings for 20 minutes.

 

[pipspeak]

The camera is frustrating as h3ll... but IMO it's primarily a software issue. On occasion I've discovered that it is capable of producing great images, which suggests the hardware can work well. But more often than not it gets things terribly wrong usually due to bad WB, slow shutter speed, wrong ISO or overdone jpeg compression ( which are all software issues).

The crummy camera is the one thing that would make me dump this phone in an instant if there were any competing-sized phone with decent battery life.

 

[Crewville96]

The camera is frustrating as h3ll... but IMO it's primarily a software issue. On occasion I've discovered that it is capable of producing great images, which suggests the hardware can work well. But more often than not it gets things terribly wrong usually due to bad WB, slow shutter speed, wrong ISO or overdone jpeg compression ( which are all software issues).

The crummy camera is the one thing that would make me dump this phone in an instant if there were any competing-sized phone with decent battery life.

Yeah, ditto. I just shattered the front of my Z3C yesterday I went with Sony because I didn't like the options from the other 4 big OEM's. Now I'm debating fixing my Z3C or going with the GS6. Battery life isn't great with the GS6, and it's front and back glass as well, but the camera looks great and I think I can handle 5.1 inches. Dunno what to do....

 

[Cronis]

I'm actually thinking about getting a Nokia to try out Windows Phone. Their cameras tend to be superb too, which is a nice perk. The Lumia 925 is a bit wider than my Z3c but not any taller, Plus I like the rounded edges. Not sure though, would be a big step down spec wise. But I only use my phone for email, web browsing, texting and taking pics anyways. So its not like i need a quad core. Honestly the first gen Moto X would have been perfect for me if its camera was better.

 

[degraaff]

I'm actually thinking about getting a Nokia to try out Windows Phone. Their cameras tend to be superb too, which is a nice perk. The Lumia 925 is a bit wider than my Z3c but not any taller, Plus I like the rounded edges. Not sure though, would be a big step down spec wise. But I only use my phone for email, web browsing, texting and taking pics anyways. So its not like i need a quad core. Honestly the first gen Moto X would have been perfect for me if its camera was better.

If you're going for Windows Phone then the Lumia 930 is much better than the 925, much much sharper photos and it's said that the 925 is very slippery due to the thin, rounded aluminum sides; it's said to provide very little grip while taking photos

 

[Cronis]

If you're going for Windows Phone then the Lumia 930 is much better than the 925, much much sharper photos and it's said that the 925 is very slippery due to the thin, rounded aluminum sides; it's said to provide very little grip while taking photos

Yea I agree on the image quality points, still I feel like the 5 inch phones are just too big for me. Even the 925 is pushing it. Plus I can get a 925 in mint condition for $80

Also I like the rounded edges, why everyone is going square and blocky beats me. Something thats been amazing about the Moto Xs is how they conform to the hand. I think thats one of the things I just have not gotten used to with the Z3c as a daily driver, its just not comfortable to use day in day out. The glass back is frankly unpleasant and a poor choice in materials, adding a case makes things worse since the phone stays squarish and just gets thicker.

I will probably watch the market for a bit and see what comes out in the next few months, selling my z3c in the meantime and just using a Moto G or Lumia 925 to tide me over till then.

I honestly do not think things will improve for the Z3c Camera. I doubt RAW is the fix everyone wants either, that just adds the ability to fix pictures after the fact. With a smartphone cam you need to be able to take nice pics right off the bat, not after heavy editing. Sure it will give devs more options, but by that time this phone will be so old the Z5c or Z6c will be out.

 

[dizzyman44]

That must be frustrating. I don't have SLR camera and I love taking photos, so a quality camera is always on priorities when I'm looking for a new cellphone.

 

[degraaff]

Also I like the rounded edges, why everyone is going square and blocky beats me. Something thats been amazing about the Moto Xs is how they conform to the hand. I think thats one of the things I just have not gotten used to with the Z3c as a daily driver, its just not comfortable to use day in day out. The glass back is frankly unpleasant and a poor choice in materials, adding a case makes things worse since the phone stays squarish and just gets thicker.

The back of the 930 is actually shaped to fit in the hand a bit better, more so than the 925. The 925 does have rounded sides, but the back is almost completely flat and the corners are relatively sharp and angular and it's very thin. It's nothing like a Moto G. But it would be best if you could find both phones in a shop so you can know exactly which one lies in the hand better. The 930 has very slim bezels so I don't think it's much bigger than the 925.