The Definitive Answer on Charging a HP Touchpad

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

Yeah, I've done quite a bit of flashing ROMs in the past (My main phone runs LOS), so I'm familiar with TWRP. I may eventually give 7.1 Evervolv a try if it's not too slow, just for a working Jellyfin client. (As Jellyfin doesn't support Android 4.4 at all, with no existing builds ever supporting it)

Flash Evervolv 7.1.2 Android Nougat and use the MaXtreme 1836, kernel. No need for Gapps, just install the apk Apps that you need.
Now you have a Linux Laptop with a touchscreen as fast and responsive as it can be !

 

[Sanras]

Flash Evervolv 7.1.2 Android Nougat and use the MaXtreme 1836, kernel. No need for Gapps, just install the apk Apps that you need.
Now you have a Linux Laptop with a touchscreen as fast and responsive as it can be !

I flashed the MaXtreme kernel 1782 clock on my CM 11 install, and the tablet is definitely faster, but AiDA64 and CM Performed!dance settings report that the tablet is running at a 2800 MHz clock, which can't be right. Why does the kernel do this? I'm sure it doesn't really cause problems, I just don't really like fake specs.

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

I flashed the MaXtreme kernel 1782 clock on my CM 11 install, and the tablet is definitely faster, but AiDA64 and CM Performed!dance settings report that the tablet is running at a 2800 MHz clock,

Congratulations ! You found an "Easter Egg" of Overclocking !
Now flash MaXtreme 1836 and you will get 3000 MHz the fastest Mobile CPU on the planet at this moment !

which can't be right. Why does the kernel do this? I'm sure it doesn't really cause problems, I just don't really like fake specs.

The CPU normal speed is 1.2 then it can be overclock to any frequency: 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, 1.8 and Max 1.9
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/webos-guide-overclock-the-hp-touchpad-to-1-9ghz.1230912/

The frequency number reported to the OS ( Android ) can be set to anything is just a number map to the overclocking frequency the CPU will handle, so 1836 is map as 3000.
Why do this?
There is no damage to the CPU, but any App can set a minimum CPU requirement to RUN, or even the OS ( force upgrade ) We are seen this with current Desktop OS that requires some very specific CPU and TPU requirements to be use, but in reality the OS will work and perform with no problem with unsupported hardware. ( Force upgrade )
Keeping that in mind, the CPU number is mask to reflect a higher MHz and that is what the Apps running will see and will think is running on the latest CPU !
HP sold the 64GB model for more using the same CPU, but overclock. That to me is a scam, because a lot of them can be run at 1.836 with no problem at all.
If you decide to flash 7.1.2, do not install any Kernel or optimization Apps, it will make all worse. You can do it to verify settings, but then removed it.
Have fun with one of the fastest Mobile CPU on the planet in 2022 !

 

[Sanras]

Congratulations ! You found an "Easter Egg" of Overclocking !
Now flash MaXtreme 1836 and you will get 3000 MHz the fastest Mobile CPU on the planet at this moment !

Lol. I know its actually running at the 1782 I flashed, I was just confused why the kernel was faking the clock speed.

I don't think I've ever encountered a single app that actually refused to run because of a lower clock speed. Is there really any good reason to do this?The only thing preventing apps from running is the android API level, and the fact that this tablet is running a 32 bit CPU arch.

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

Lol. I know its actually running at the 1782 I flashed, I was just confused why the kernel was faking the clock speed.

I never faked the true MHz as it says on the file is 1782, but is reported higher to the OS.
Keep in mind a lot of the settings of the HP touchpad had to be fake to run Android as is not a native Android device.
The kernel are just settings that the user can set, withing a range otherwise it would not work.
There is a lot that can be done at the kernel level of any device to override the OS or make changes.
Faking the CPU is just a number and it can be set to anything and the worse the App running the benchmark has no way of really know the true MHz, as it just go by the number set in the Kernel.

I don't think I've ever encountered a single app that actually refused to run because of a lower clock speed. Is there really any good reason to do this?The only thing preventing apps from running is the android API level, and the fact that this tablet is running a 32 bit CPU arch.

Android API, RAM and CPU. My testing Game App was HearthStone which I played until recently, the limitations is RAM due to the HD graphics now been use, otherwise the Tablet can run it with no problem at normal resolution.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...lizzard-entertainment-on-hp-touchpad.3924170/
Everything on the HP Touchpad got to be Fake to run Android, this is just another little tweak to the basket.

 

[Sanras]

I never faked the true MHz as it says on the file is 1782, but is reported higher to the OS.
Keep in mind a lot of the settings of the HP touchpad had to be fake to run Android as is not a native Android device.
The kernel are just settings that the user can set, withing a range otherwise it would not work.
There is a lot that can be done at the kernel level of any device to override the OS or make changes.
Faking the CPU is just a number and it can be set to anything and the worse the App running the benchmark has no way of really know the true MHz, as it just go by the number set in the Kernel.

Android API, RAM and CPU. My testing Game App was HearthStone which I played until recently, the limitations is RAM due to the HD graphics now been use, otherwise the Tablet can run it with no problem at normal resolution.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...lizzard-entertainment-on-hp-touchpad.3924170/
Everything on the HP Touchpad got to be Fake to run Android, this is just another little tweak to the basket.

Welp, it looks like lost the silicon lottery. Flashed to 1836 Max kernel, and the tablet started flashing blue lines across the screen rapidly. Flashed to 1782Mhz and the tablet is back to normal again.

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

Welp, it looks like lost the silicon lottery. Flashed to 1836 Max kernel, and the tablet started flashing blue lines across the screen rapidly. Flashed to 1782Mhz and the tablet is back to normal again.

That is because you are using 4.4 and that will happen even with 5, but all is good with 7, 8 and 9.
The reason for the blue flashing is because the memory for the display driver has been reduced to allocate more RAM for the OS and those settings are applied to all ROMs. Older Android version and kernel used different way of allocating driver memory. You are using an old Android version and kernel and will run into problems even with swaping.

 

[Sanras]

That is because you are using 4.4 and that will happen even with 5, but all is good with 7, 8 and 9.
The reason for the blue flashing is because the memory for the display driver has been reduced to allocate more RAM for the OS and those settings are applied to all ROMs. Older Android version and kernel used different way of allocating driver memory. You are using an old Android version and kernel and will run into problems even with swaping.

Oh, ok. So 1782 is max for 4.4 and 5. If 1836 never works on 4.4, then why offer that frequency at all in the All_files_for_ROM zip? It's essentially useless, so there should at least be a warning not to use it.

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

Oh, ok. So 1782 is max for 4.4 and 5. If 1836 never works on 4.4, then why offer that frequency at all in the All_files_for_ROM zip? It's essentially useless, so there should at least be a warning not to use it.

It has nothing to do with the frequency, as you saw in the previous link. WebOS can run even 1900, that is the same for all android version depending on the Tablet.
The flashing blue screen, which I am aware of is due to reduce memory display driver. It does work after it finished flashing and boots into Android, you may need to boot twice.
The Kernel settings is not just about cpu frequency, but memory allocation and many more settings.
To get the best experience of Android on the Tablet use 7.1.2, 8 or 9.

 

[Sanras]

It has nothing to do with the frequency, as you saw in the previous link. WebOS can run even 1900, that is the same for all android version depending on the Tablet.
The flashing blue screen, which I am aware of is due to reduce memory display driver. It does work after it finished flashing and boots into Android, you may need to boot twice.
The Kernel settings is not just about cpu frequency, but memory allocation and many more settings.
To get the best experience of Android on the Tablet use 7.1.2, 8 or 9.

Well, as far as I'm aware the only difference between Max kernel 1782 and Max kernel 1836 is the CPU clock speed. Why would the same kernel with different CPU clock speed settings also change the memory allocation for the GPU driver?

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

Well, as far as I'm aware the only difference between Max kernel 1782 and Max kernel 1836 is the CPU clock speed. Why would the same kernel with different CPU clock speed settings also change the memory allocation for the GPU driver?

The CPU is the same and has the same frequency settings from WebOS to Android 9.
There are over 100 different settings when compiling a kernel and those settings will not be display on the OS, or the user will be aware of, only the frequency. MaXtreme has the same frequency but others settings applies to make it ever more responsive.
If you want to learn how to recompile a kernel take a look at my guide:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/how-to-recompile-the-hp-touchpad-android-kernel.3889025/
That is the basics, as you can see it gets complicated but it can be done.
The Kernel for 4.4 and 5 is not the same as 7,8 and 9.

 

[Sanras]

The CPU is the same and has the same frequency settings from WebOS to Android 9.
There are over 100 different settings when compiling a kernel and those settings will not be display on the OS, or the user will be aware of, only the frequency. MaXtreme has the same frequency but others settings applies to make it ever more responsive.
If you want to learn how to recompile a kernel take a look at my guide:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/how-to-recompile-the-hp-touchpad-android-kernel.3889025/
That is the basics, as you can see it gets complicated but it can be done.
The Kernel for 4.4 and 5 is not the same as 7,8 and 9.

I know that the kernel is different for different Android versions. But flashing the 4.4 Max kernel @ 1836Mhz causes the blue lines issue, while flashing the 4.4 Max kernel @ 1782 does not.

Since these two kernels are for the same Android version (and the same "Max" version of it), the only difference between the two should be the clock speed, right?

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

I know that the kernel is different for different Android versions. But flashing the 4.4 Max kernel @ 1836Mhz causes the blue lines issue, while flashing the 4.4 Max kernel @ 1782 does not.

The kernel version is the same for 7,8,9, but with changes to run newer version.
The reason Android 10 can not run is due to the Kernel version can not be upgraded due to the old hardware. But some are trying and who knows any day we may get a surprise.

Since these two kernels are for the same Android version (and the same "Max" version of it), the only difference between the two should be the clock speed, right?

The kernel frequency is the only thing that changes from the zip files, but that does affect other settings as well, again is not just a frequency change and the kernel of 4.4 and 5 is older and also Android, but I did applied the same settings to all ROM.
Give 7.1.2 a try and get the most of the Tablet.

 

[Sanras]

The kernel version is the same for 7,8,9, but with changes to run newer version.
The reason Android 10 can not run is due to the Kernel version can not be upgraded due to the old hardware. But some are trying and who knows any day we may get a surprise.

The kernel frequency is the only thing that changes from the zip files, but that does affect other settings as well, again is not just a frequency change and the kernel of 4.4 and 5 is older and also Android, but I did applied the same settings to all ROM.
Give 7.1.2 a try and get the most of the Tablet.

If I want to flash to another ROM, do I flash the "Automatic_Wipe_All_and_Create_Android_with _Swap" zip, or do I just use the wipe menu in TWRP like on a normal Android device?

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

If I want to flash to another ROM, do I flash the "Automatic_Wipe_All_and_Create_Android_with _Swap" zip, or do I just use the wipe menu in TWRP like on a normal Android device?

To flash another ROM old or New, go to the TWRP 3.2.1-0 menu:
Wipe
Advance Wipe
( Select Partitions to Wipe )
/Dalvik / Art Cache
/Cache
/Data
/Internal Storage
/System
( Micro SD card ) there is no need to wipe, this is the USB drive that gets mounted when the Tablet is connected to PC and copy the ROM to be flash.
( It can also be wipe ) All the ROM files that were used will be gone.

( optional: Format data ) you will need to Type YES to continue

Automatic_Wipe_All is used to create the Android Partitions with swap partition ( same as WebOS ) and it only needs to be done one time only.

 

[Sanras]

To flash another ROM old or New, go to the TWRP 3.2.1-0 menu:
Wipe
Advance Wipe
( Select Partitions to Wipe )
/Dalvik / Art Cache
/Cache
/Data
/Internal Storage
/System
( Micro SD card ) there is no need to wipe, this is the USB drive that gets mounted when the Tablet is connected to PC and copy the ROM to be flash.
( It can also be wipe ) All the ROM files that were used will be gone.

( optional: Format data ) you will need to Type YES to continue

Automatic_Wipe_All is used to create the Android Partitions with swap partition ( same as WebOS ) and it only needs to be done one time only.

Ok, thanks, that's what I thought.

Another quick question - is there any documentation that lists the exact differences between the stock kernel of the ROM and the different kernels you configured? I'd like to know what they're really doing.

Also, you should warn about the consequences of using the Performance CPU governor in your thread -

Performance locks the CPU frequency to max at all time. This makes the tablet slightly more responsive because the frequency is always high.

However, CPU governors exist for a reason. Lowering the clock speed when the tablet doesn't need much CPU power saves battery.

I found that leaving the tablet on overnight with the screen turned off and wifi off made the battery drain significantly with the performance kernel.

The Interactive kernel is much better for overall battery life, especially in idle, even if the tablet is slightly less responsive.

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

Ok, thanks, that's what I thought.

If is not done that way, there could be a mixed up of data and files that will create many problems.
A lot of users are not aware and upgrade ROM incorrectly.

Another quick question - is there any documentation that lists the exact differences between the stock kernel of the ROM and the different kernels you configured? I'd like to know what they're really doing.

This has been discussed many times in different threads on XDA, I cannot go into details all over again but will try to summarized it.
Android = Operating System for Mobile Phones. Originally design to maximized battery life, at the end of the day you may need to call for emergency and the phone needs to work, not perform. ( Electricity (voltage) = Performance )
The HPTp is a Tablet not a phone ( an ARM based laptop with touchscreen )
The Stock Kernel uses all kind of limitations that has been used on smartphones even using Zram that compress RAM to be use as swap ( a limitation of Android, that can not use more partitions from the file system )
The HpTp Max MaXtreme Kernel removes everything and makes it very simple and basic the same way as laptops and desktops OS also provides a swap partition on the storage card ( not RAM ). Provides the full voltage ( electricity ) with no restriction = Performance

Also, you should warn about the consequences of using the Performance CPU governor in your thread -

There is absolutely no potential damage, all Desktop and Laptops OS works that way take a look at your CPU monitoring software for how is working.

Performance locks the CPU frequency to max at all time. This makes the tablet slightly more responsive because the frequency is always high.

NO, Performance means there is no restriction as to how high the voltage can go when the CPU needs to work.
The frequency is not running high at all times, only when it needs to and then it goes idle to almost nothing.
If the CPU is lock at high frequency ( means is working at 1.836 non stop ) the back of the tablet will get very hot and the internal thermal control of the CPU will shutdown the Tablet.

However, theres a reason CPU governors exist for a reason. Lowering the clock speed when the tablet doesn't need much CPU power saves battery.

NO, governors exits for smartphones when battery is more important than performance ( is a phone to make calls, not a computer ) The governor works by limiting the amount of time the CPU ( or many cores ) stay active at the maximum frequency. If the CPU is performing a task and needs 100% voltage, the governor settings will prevent how long it can stay at the highest frequency ( it could be seconds or milliseconds ) making it fluctuate, reducing voltage and making it slower. ( more battery )

I found that leaving the tablet on overnight with the screen turned off and wifi off made the battery drain significantly with the performance kernel.

It all depends the types of Apps installed. If there is any App that wakes up the CPU to perform any task, battery will be drain, if is only the ROM, it will be fine.
By HP recommendations, the Tablet needs to be charging when not in use and connected to Wifi if available.
Keep the Tablet charging all the time for better performance, all mobile or desktop OS connected to the internet are constantly syncing data.
A lot of users turn off the Tablet and then have the expectations that the device is going to perform quickly when is awaken.

The Interactive kernel is much better for overall battery life, especially in idle, even if the tablet is slightly less responsive.

The Tablet is 11 years old and by applying restrictions on top of already antique hardware makes it even worse.
The hardware needs to perform at it's Maximum potential to be usable.
I did list all settings to build.prop ( Ramdisk ) swap in the guide, but had to start removing as there is a limitation of how many characters a post can have and I reached the maximum:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...all-android-roms-with-swap-partition.3901773/

 

[Sanras]

If is not done that way, there could be a mixed up of data and files that will create many problems.
A lot of users are not aware and upgrade ROM incorrectly.

This has been discussed many times in different threads on XDA, I cannot go into details all over again but will try to summarized it.
Android = Operating System for Mobile Phones. Originally design to maximized battery life, at the end of the day you may need to call for emergency and the phone needs to work, not perform. ( Electricity (voltage) = Performance )
The HPTp is a Tablet not a phone ( an ARM based laptop with touchscreen )
The Stock Kernel uses all kind of limitations that has been used on smartphones even using Zram that compress RAM to be use as swap ( a limitation of Android, that can not use more partitions from the file system )
The HpTp Max MaXtreme Kernel removes everything and makes it very simple and basic the same way as laptops and desktops OS also provides a swap partition on the storage card ( not RAM ). Provides the full voltage ( electricity ) with no restriction = Performance


There is absolutely no potential damage, all Desktop and Laptops OS works that way take a look at your CPU monitoring software for how is working.

NO, Performance means there is no restriction as to how high the voltage can go when the CPU needs to work.
The frequency is not running high at all times, only when it needs to and then it goes idle to almost nothing.
If the CPU is lock at high frequency ( means is working at 1.836 non stop ) the back of the tablet will get very hot and the internal thermal control of the CPU will shutdown the Tablet.

NO, governors exits for smartphones when battery is more important than performance ( is a phone to make calls, not a computer ) The governor works by limiting the amount of time the CPU ( or many cores ) stay active at the maximum frequency. If the CPU is performing a task and needs 100% voltage, the governor settings will prevent how long it can stay at the highest frequency ( it could be seconds or milliseconds ) making it fluctuate, reducing voltage and making it slower. ( more battery )

It all depends the types of Apps installed. If there is any App that wakes up the CPU to perform any task, battery will be drain, if is only the ROM, it will be fine.
By HP recommendations, the Tablet needs to be charging when not in use and connected to Wifi if available.
Keep the Tablet charging all the time for better performance, all mobile or desktop OS connected to the internet are constantly syncing data.
A lot of users turn off the Tablet and then have the expectations that the device is going to perform quickly when is awaken.


The Tablet is 11 years old and by applying restrictions on top of already antique hardware makes it even worse.
The hardware needs to perform at it's Maximum potential to be usable.
I did list all settings to build.prop ( Ramdisk ) swap in the guide, but had to start removing as there is a limitation of how many characters a post can have and I reached the maximum:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...all-android-roms-with-swap-partition.3901773/

I never said it caused damage. I'm just saying there are consequences to using this governor, because it makes battery life worse in exchange for responsiveness.

It does lock it to maximum frequency. Obviously CPU utilization isn't 100% all the time, so it doesn't get hot, but the voltage on the CPU is always the same. Basically, it behaves like a desktop PC's CPU would.

I confirmed this in CM's performance menu, and with AIDA64. With performance governor, the clock speed is always set to 1782Mhz. With interactive, the CPU clock will drop to 384MHz and fluctuate when the CPU is not in use to save power, since the CPU draws less voltage this way.

This is exactly how modern laptops work as well. When on AC power, they will keep the CPU close to max clock speed, since power saving doesn't matter. When on battery, laptops will drop the CPU clock speed to consume less voltage and maintain better battery life. You can see this happening if you run HW Monitor or Task Manager while doing tasks. When you do something intensive, you will see the clock speed jump, and drop after the operation is complete. This makes the a bit CPU slower, but saves battery.

This thread here also confirms my observations: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...pu-governors-i-o-schedulers-and-more.3048957/

 

[HP_TOUCHPAD]

I never said it caused damage. I'm just saying there are consequences to using this governor, because it makes battery life worse in exchange for responsiveness.

Responsiveness = Performance, Quick, Fast ( More energy is required )
That is expected as everything works that way, the faster you accelerate the car the more energy it will consume, but you get there faster.
There is no magic governor or settings that will extend battery life and offer full performance.

It does lock it to maximum frequency. Obviously CPU utilization isn't 100% all the time, so it doesn't get hot, but the voltage on the CPU is always the same. Basically, it behaves like a desktop PC's CPU would.

Is working as a Desktop PC, the frequency does change. In the Kernel settings the idle frequency is set to 384 the lowest is 190. It instruct the CPU that it can not go lower than 384 to keep the system running but it can use up to 1.836 with no "scaling". Instead of going up in steps, (800) (1000) (1200) it just jump to 1.836 to finish the task, when done it goes back to 384 ( it does not stay at 1.836 ) The 1.836 is reported to the OS as the maximum frequency, when using a governor it will change and provide the new frequency to the OS. But either way the governor idles at the minimum of 384 regardless of any governor been use.

I confirmed this in CM's performance menu, and with AIDA64. With performance governor, the clock speed is always set to 1782Mhz. With interactive, the CPU clock will drop to 384MHz and fluctuate when the CPU is not in use to save power, since the CPU draws less voltage this way.

Fluctuate ( scaling ) with performance there is only two frequencies 384 idle and 1836 max.

This is exactly how modern laptops work as well. When on AC power, they will keep the CPU close to max clock speed, since power saving doesn't matter. When on battery, laptops will drop the CPU clock speed to consume less voltage and maintain better battery life. You can see this happening if you run HW Monitor or Task Manager while doing tasks. When you do something intensive, you will see the clock speed jump, and drop after the operation is complete. This makes the a bit CPU slower, but saves battery.

With new CPU, battery optimization is completely control by the CPU itself and many use (hybrid modes).
Using different frequency cores for specific tasks, but is not control by any software or code. It does get complicated because every single model and platform works differently.

This thread here also confirms my observations: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...pu-governors-i-o-schedulers-and-more.3048957/

That thread is the perfect example of the many tweaks that all the users have done to get the phone to last a day but trying to get the most performance.

Take a look at this youtube video of using one of the HpTp_Max Kernel version running 1.836 ( shows as 1.84 )
At the top center shows all the info, also look at the sensor temp 32f.
The goal is not to save battery, but to be able to use the device.

 

[Sanras]

Responsiveness = Performance, Quick, Fast ( More energy is required )
That is expected as everything works that way, the faster you accelerate the car the more energy it will consume, but you get there faster.
There is no magic governor or settings that will extend battery life and offer full performance.

Is working as a Desktop PC, the frequency does change. In the Kernel settings the idle frequency is set to 384 the lowest is 190. It instruct the CPU that it can not go lower than 384 to keep the system running but it can use up to 1.836 with no "scaling". Instead of going up in steps, (800) (1000) (1200) it just jump to 1.836 to finish the task, when done it goes back to 384 ( it does not stay at 1.836 ) The 1.836 is reported to the OS as the maximum frequency, when using a governor it will change and provide the new frequency to the OS. But either way the governor idles at the minimum of 384 regardless of any governor been use.

Fluctuate ( scaling ) with performance there is only two frequencies 384 idle and 1836 max.

With new CPU, battery optimization is completely control by the CPU itself and many use (hybrid modes).
Using different frequency cores for specific tasks, but is not control by any software or code. It does get complicated because every single model and platform works differently.

That thread is the perfect example of the many tweaks that all the users have done to get the phone to last a day but trying to get the most performance.

Take a look at this youtube video of using one of the HpTp_Max Kernel version running 1.836 ( shows as 1.84 )
At the top center shows all the info, also look at the sensor temp 32f.
The goal is not to save battery, but to be able to use the device.

Well, I flashed the Evervolv 7.1.2 ROM now, amd I have to say, Im actually very impressed. This runs better than CM 11, which is insane.

Anyway, another question - does the wifi chip on this tablet just suck? Im connected to a 5 Ghz WiFi network, and I never really get more than 15mbps in a speed test, even though all my other devices get 50-60 mbps. 15 mbps is fine enough and useable, but it would be nice to get some better wifi speed.