The Samsung Secret - Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1 Still

tlogank

Senior Member
Sep 24, 2010
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I am cross-posting this from another thread, but thought it needed to be shown here for those that don't venture out to other forums on XDA. It may be true or may not, if this has been posted here before I apologize, but it didn't show up having been here when I made the title.

This same story has also been posted to LifeHacker as factual information: http://lifehacker.com/5736836/this-is-why-your-galaxy-s-phones-havent-updated-past-21

Hello,

I’m going to step across the NDAs and explain the issues behind the Android Froyo update to Samsung Galaxy S phones in the United States. I think most of you have come to this realization yourself now: the withholding of the Froyo update is a largely political one, not a technological one: Froyo runs quite well on Galaxy S phones, as those of you that have run leaked updates may have noticed.

To explain the political situation, first, a primer on how phone firmware upgrades work for carriers. When a carrier decides to sell a phone, a contract is usually written between the phone manufacturer and the carrier. In this contract, the cost of updates (to the carrier) is usually outlined. Updates are usually broken into several types: critical updates, maintenance updates, and feature updates. Critical updates are those that resolve a critical bug in the phone, such as the phone overheating. Maintenance updates involve routine updates to resolve bugs and other issues reported by the carrier. Finally, feature updates add some new feature in software that wasn’t present before. Critical updates are usually free, maintenance updates have some maintenance fee associated with them, and feature updates are usually costly.
In the past, most phone updates would mainly consist of critical and maintenance updates. Carriers almost never want to incur the cost of a feature update because it is of little benefit to them, adds little to the device, and involves a lot of testing on the carrier end. Android has changed the playing field, however – since the Android Open Source Project is constantly being updated, and that information being made widely available to the public, there is pressure for the phone to be constantly updated with the latest version of Android. With most manufacturers, such as HTC, Motorola, etc. This is fine and considered a maintenance upgrade. Samsung, however, considers it a feature update, and requires carriers to pay a per device update fee for each incremental Android update.

Now, here’s where the politics come in: most U.S. carriers aren’t very happy with Samsung’s decision to charge for Android updates as feature updates, especially since they are essentially charging for the Android Open Source Project’s efforts, and the effort on Samsung’s end is rather minimal. As a result of perhaps, corporate collusion, all U.S. carriers have decided to refuse to pay for the Android 2.2 update, in hopes that the devaluation of the Galaxy S line will cause Samsung to drop their fees and give the update to the carriers. The situation has panned out differently in other parts of the world, but this is the situation in the United States.

Some of you might have noticed Verion’s Fascinate updated, but without 2.2 : This is a result of a maintenance agreement Samsung must honor combined with Verizon’s unwillingness to pay the update fees.
In short, Android 2.2 is on hold for Galaxy S phones until the U.S. carriers and Samsung reach a consensus.

Some might wonder why I didn’t deliver this over a more legitimate news channel – the short answer: I don’t want to lose my job. I do, however, appreciate transparency, which is why I'm here.
Source
 
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adrynalyne

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Dec 13, 2008
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Proof?

It's annoying how quick you guys are to dismiss something immediately then try to make a joke of it. I never stated it as fact, but it hasn't been shared in this detail on our forums.


The best proof is common sense.

1. Verizon knows what they are doing, before they signed the contract.
2. If Samsung changes the rules mid contract, Verizon is likely to sue them, and Samsung knows this.
3. Were it true, then there would not be new builds being leaked all the time for the other big carriers, and there would not be new Verizon builds (that have not leaked). Yes, all these builds are marked with compile dates. Samsung is not going to tie up their resources on something that is not going to happen due to carriers refusing. They would simply halt all work until a settlement was made.
4. Neither Samsung, nor Verizon would sell docks requiring 2.2 to work properly, if they had not already had a plan to release it in the future.
5. I take the word of an actual Samsung employee who said it was bullshit, over an internet rumor.
(new!)
6. Samsung would have taken legal action by now, subpoena'ed XDA, and forced them to hand over the whistle blower's IP address, and made them pull it off the forums. None of which has happened.

People dismiss stuff like this, just like they dismiss tall tales of BigFoot, Aliens, and the Female Orgasm. Actually, that last one is true ;)


 
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beeblebrux

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2008
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Proof?

It's annoying how quick you guys are to dismiss something immediately then try to make a joke of it. I never stated it as fact, but it hasn't been shared in this detail on our forums.
really? After scrolling all the way down to page 2 of this forum, I came across this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=916692

I really had to dig for it, though, so I understand why you didn't see it. I mean, who looks at page 2 anyway? Page 1 is where it's at.

Sarcasm aside, yes it has been discussed already in this forum. And on another note, it's annoying how quick some people are to believing things like this. Legitimate reasons have been stated for this not to be true, but the only basis of fact in this is the original poster's word. We aren't being naive, just realistic. And, trust me, these things turn out to be false more often than not anyway.
 

kcasner

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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The best proof is common sense.

1. Verizon knows what they are doing, before they signed the contract.
2. I Samsung changes the rules mid contract, Verizon is likely to sue them, and Samsung knows this.
3. Were it true, then there would not be new builds being leaked all the time for the other big carriers, and there would not be new Verizon builds (that have not leaked). Yes, all these builds are marked with compile dates. Samsung is not going to tie up their resources on something that is not going to happen due to carriers refusing. They would simply halt all work until a settlement was made.
4. Neither Samsung, nor Verizon would sell docks requiring 2.2 to work properly, if they had not already had a plan to release it in the future.
5. I take the word of an actual Samsung employee who said it was bullshit, over an internet rumor.


People dismiss stuff like this, just like they dismiss tall tales of BigFoot, Aliens, and the Female Orgasm. Actually, that last one is true ;)
I fail to see how any of that is common sense.

1. Verizon's contract may have not included these updates as noted.
2. See #1, that by no means suggests anything was changed.
3. Leaked builds by other carriers has no bearing with Verizon.
4. Samsung isn't going to re-invent the wheel for one carrier, and vzw has sold accessories that didn't work properly in the past (Droid X is a good example of a fail on accessory compatibility), and I don't see how samsung is halting anything due to 1 carrier... the vzw contract may require updates to the current OS, they can't simple halt all work, just what isn't paid for which would be completely legal.
5. Your source to everyone else is just as viable as the source in the first post, and not every single samsung employee is aware of every ordeal within a large company.

Honestly, your entire post holds as much validity as the first. I'm not gullible to take any of these as fact... but the first post makes sense, and could very well be true.

Who knows, honestly does anyone care why? It doesn't change anything knowing the truth of why we don't have froyo, nor will it get us froyo any faster.
 
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adrynalyne

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I fail to see how any of that is common sense.

1. Verizon's contract may have not included these updates as noted.
No, of course not. They just sold docks expecting not to upgrade to 2.2 :rolleyes:
3. Leaked builds by other carriers has no bearing with Verizon.
Nope, but compile dates do. Think hard about this one, its tricky.

4. Samsung isn't going to re-invent the wheel for one carrier, and vzw has sold accessories that didn't work properly in the past (Droid X is a good example of a fail on accessory compatibility), and I don't see how samsung is halting anything due to 1 carrier... the vzw contract may require updates to the current OS, they can't simple halt all work, just what isn't paid for which would be completely legal.
The accessories require 2.2. They are not broken, they are disabled. I didnt say MRs cease, i said froyo work would cease. By the way, epic fail on you reading the original source that said ALL US carriers were refusing.

5. Your source to everyone else is just as viable as the source in the first post, and not every single samsung employee is aware of every ordeal within a large company.
My source has turned out to be more reliable than any of these rumor mills. I am not the only one who trusts him.
 
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J Shed

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Jan 3, 2008
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Proof?

It's annoying how quick you guys are to dismiss something immediately then try to make a joke of it. I never stated it as fact, but it hasn't been shared in this detail on our forums.
It's more annoying how quick people are to believe stuff on the internet. There are way too many holes in that story. UK, Indian and Canadian carriers have all released Froyo. It is known to be in testing with all four US carriers. Not to mention Samsung and the carriers are releasing Froyo for other devices.

Not to mention the whole NDA thing. You'd have to be a complete idiot to think posting under an anonymous name on the internet protects you. If it WERE true, he'd already be fired (and probably sued), and Samsung/the carriers' lawyers would've ordered XDA to remove the thread.

Posting the lifehacker link is a joke, they were just tipped and linked to the XDA thread. If it had any semblance of truth, it would've been picked up by a lot more places, and to date I haven't seen it on the android blogs, nor on engadget.
 

kcasner

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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I'm not going to bicker back and forth on hearsay, as it's just childish. However, vzw has made mistakes and sold equipment that wasn't compatible in the past. That's fact, and you can look into the Droid X involving their dock and cases, if you are truly that bored.

What was said, not said, or miss-interpreted is irrelevant. None of it is solid proof or holds any validity, and even if it was... it wouldn't matter.

I said it once, and i'll say it again. It doesn't change anything, we don't have froyo, and it won't get us froyo any faster.

/End
 

adrynalyne

Inactive Recognized Developer
Dec 13, 2008
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I'm not going to bicker back and forth on hearsay, as it's just childish. However, vzw has made mistakes and sold equipment that wasn't compatible in the past. That's fact, and you can look into the Droid X involving their dock and cases, if you are truly that bored.

Then stop bickering. Did said DX accessories, have a sticker like this on them? I bet not.
 

kcasner

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
192
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Then stop bickering. Did said DX accessories, have a sticker like this on them? I bet not.
Nor is the galaxy s only verizon, as the droid x is.. that sticker proves nothing; and you're just arguing for the sake of. So, i'll just let you attack moving forward on your own so you have some sort of fulfillment if that's your goal.
 

adrynalyne

Inactive Recognized Developer
Dec 13, 2008
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That dock is verizon only, however. If you think that sticker is not an indicator that verizon plans to update to 2.2 which would have been decided prior to release of the device, then you are naive.

The funny thing is, I have not attacked you. You are just unnerved that I disagreed with you. In most places that's called a debate, not an attack.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
 

imnuts

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Jul 27, 2007
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Didn't want to start a new topic for this...either way, interesting read:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/17/ios-android-breakdown/#
It's a lot easier to keep things updated when you have 4-5 hardware revisions to worry about, and you're also controlling all of the hardware in the device. Android has how many different people making the hardware? And none of the hardware makers write the full software for the phone, only pieces of it. And, those hardware makers are constantly pushing to sell new products, so they have to allocate resources appropriately, and new products will almost always get more attention than old products. If you take into account that Android 2.x is just over a year old, and that it is on >85% of devices, I'd say Android isn't doing to bad. Froyo is just over 8 months old and on >50% of devices, and I'm guessing that when Samsung finishes rolling out Froyo to the SGS phones, that number will jump dramatically.
 

smilepak

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2008
415
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If this is all true, I am going back to Moto / HTC. This will be my last Samsung. With the Omnia, they did something similar. Takes forever to release an upgrade, I got fed up and went to BB Storm.



I am cross-posting this from another thread, but thought it needed to be shown here for those that don't venture out to other forums on XDA. It may be true or may not, if this has been posted here before I apologize, but it didn't show up having been here when I made the title.

This same story has also been posted to LifeHacker as factual information: http://lifehacker.com/5736836/this-is-why-your-galaxy-s-phones-havent-updated-past-21

Hello,

I’m going to step across the NDAs and explain the issues behind the Android Froyo update to Samsung Galaxy S phones in the United States. I think most of you have come to this realization yourself now: the withholding of the Froyo update is a largely political one, not a technological one: Froyo runs quite well on Galaxy S phones, as those of you that have run leaked updates may have noticed.

To explain the political situation, first, a primer on how phone firmware upgrades work for carriers. When a carrier decides to sell a phone, a contract is usually written between the phone manufacturer and the carrier. In this contract, the cost of updates (to the carrier) is usually outlined. Updates are usually broken into several types: critical updates, maintenance updates, and feature updates. Critical updates are those that resolve a critical bug in the phone, such as the phone overheating. Maintenance updates involve routine updates to resolve bugs and other issues reported by the carrier. Finally, feature updates add some new feature in software that wasn’t present before. Critical updates are usually free, maintenance updates have some maintenance fee associated with them, and feature updates are usually costly.
In the past, most phone updates would mainly consist of critical and maintenance updates. Carriers almost never want to incur the cost of a feature update because it is of little benefit to them, adds little to the device, and involves a lot of testing on the carrier end. Android has changed the playing field, however – since the Android Open Source Project is constantly being updated, and that information being made widely available to the public, there is pressure for the phone to be constantly updated with the latest version of Android. With most manufacturers, such as HTC, Motorola, etc. This is fine and considered a maintenance upgrade. Samsung, however, considers it a feature update, and requires carriers to pay a per device update fee for each incremental Android update.

Now, here’s where the politics come in: most U.S. carriers aren’t very happy with Samsung’s decision to charge for Android updates as feature updates, especially since they are essentially charging for the Android Open Source Project’s efforts, and the effort on Samsung’s end is rather minimal. As a result of perhaps, corporate collusion, all U.S. carriers have decided to refuse to pay for the Android 2.2 update, in hopes that the devaluation of the Galaxy S line will cause Samsung to drop their fees and give the update to the carriers. The situation has panned out differently in other parts of the world, but this is the situation in the United States.

Some of you might have noticed Verion’s Fascinate updated, but without 2.2 : This is a result of a maintenance agreement Samsung must honor combined with Verizon’s unwillingness to pay the update fees.
In short, Android 2.2 is on hold for Galaxy S phones until the U.S. carriers and Samsung reach a consensus.

Some might wonder why I didn’t deliver this over a more legitimate news channel – the short answer: I don’t want to lose my job. I do, however, appreciate transparency, which is why I'm here.
Source
 

Kevin Gossett

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2010
577
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North Texas
Samsung's official response, as posted on Gizmodo:

"Samsung does not charge carriers for updates to new versions of Android.
We are working to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available to all U.S. Galaxy S owners as soon as possible. Due to the complexity and unique functionality of each Galaxy S device, we are performing additional testing. Samsung feels it is important to make the Android 2.2/Froyo upgrade available only after we feel that we can give the millions of U.S. Galaxy S owners a simple and reliable upgrade experience."