Togari = Nexus Phablet

[Poke_N_PDA]

This is more of a discussion starter than a question. I recently switched from the Galaxy Nexus to the Note II. I love the size, but I desperately miss the beauty and compatibility my nexus had with AOSP. It just isn't there with the Note II development. Consequently, I'm REALLY rooting for T-Mobile to get the Togari Phablet when it is released.

From my understanding, Sony devices are pretty dang close to nexus devices with the code they release. Ergo, this may be the closest we can get to a nexus phablet for quite some time. I do expect Google to eventually split the nexus phone line into a phablet and more traditional size phone, but that could be a year or two away.

 

[E90 Commie]

This is more of a discussion starter than a question. I recently switched from the Galaxy Nexus to the Note II. I love the size, but I desperately miss the beauty and compatibility my nexus had with AOSP. It just isn't there with the Note II development. Consequently, I'm REALLY rooting for T-Mobile to get the Togari Phablet when it is released.

From my understanding, Sony devices are pretty dang close to nexus devices with the code they release. Ergo, this may be the closest we can get to a nexus phablet for quite some time. I do expect Google to eventually split the nexus phone line into a phablet and more traditional size phone, but that could be a year or two away.

I don't see any reason to wait if Carrier X will carry Device Y.

When the device is released, just go and buy it. Carrier branded devices are inferior and very expensive since there is a contract involved or an installment plan in the case of T-Mobile.

So just buy the Togari when it is released. To me, it is downright funny with all those people that asks "will Carrier X sell this device?" or "I hope that carrier X will bring this device in". To me, being dependent on a carrier is just an abnormal behavior. If an interesting device is released somewhere in the world, I just buy it provided that it works with my SIM card.

I look forward to the Togari and if it is really good, I will consider selling the Xperia Z in order to get it.

 

[Poke_N_PDA]

I don't see any reason to wait if Carrier X will carry Device Y.

When the device is released, just go and buy it. Carrier branded devices are inferior and very expensive since there is a contract involved or an installment plan in the case of T-Mobile.

So just buy the Togari when it is released. To me, it is downright funny with all those people that asks "will Carrier X sell this device?" or "I hope that carrier X will bring this device in". To me, being dependent on a carrier is just an abnormal behavior. If an interesting device is released somewhere in the world, I just buy it provided that it works with my SIM card.

I look forward to the Togari and if it is really good, I will consider selling the Xperia Z in order to get it.

I feel you. I don't care about if it's got T-Mobile's logo. I just want the frequencies to be right to get decent data speeds. I bought the AT&T Note 2 instead of the T-Mobile because the Wireless Charging pins worked on AT&Ts.

For the frequencies to work, I think we'll likely need to see an official T-Mobile release. US Unlocked versions are becoming more popular, but they are still limited. Given the variety of the major four carriers, how only two are GSM, and those two use mostly different freqs for data, It's hard to "Just go buy the phone" as you state.

 

[E90 Commie]

I don´t think it is hard to buy a phone outright today. The Xperia Z C6602 offers pentaband and works perfect on both AT&T and T-Mobile. There´s no need for a T-Mobile branded device - all it takes is pentaband.

I know the carrier mess in the country but there are many options and since I am used to the way the system works in the EU, I apply the same standards here. I have owned two carrier branded device in my life and won´t allow a third one to enter. My experience with the Vodafone K700i and Verizon Thunderbolt has put me off.

I am pretty sure that Togari will arrive with pentaband since Xperia Z offers it.

When it comes LTE, it is a no go to me as long as it is connected with carrier branding and a lack of compatibility between EU/US frequencies. The lack of VoLTE is another dealbreaker. I will get it when there is a VoLTE device that is unlocked and works on both sides of the Atlantic ocean. Until that happens, I will use HSPA+ on unlocked pentaband products.

 

[E90 Commie]

I wrote this in another comment on branded devices:



Use a credit card instead but even better, do the simple math:

Carrier branded device: $99 down payment (depends on the credit rating).
Monthly bill: (Unlimited data) $70 per month
Taxes and fees: $10-20 per month
Monthly installment: $20 per month
Total monthly cost: $100-110 (depending on the regulatory taxes and fees)

Total cost for the device (provided that 24 months of installment is selected):

$99 + $100-110/month x 24 = $2499-2740 (depending on the taxes).

You can trim this by buying it outright and put T-Mobile prepaid on.

Then we have the method I always use:

Unlocked Xperia Z: $599
Monthly cost: $30-49 per month (T-Mobile prepaid $30 plan, Straight Talk (T-Mobile) or Solavei (T-Mobile)
Taxes and fees: $0
Monthly installment: $0
Total monthly cost: $30-49

Total cost during 24 months: $1319-1775

Savings: $965-1180

Don't tell me that a carrier branded device is "cheaper" than the unbranded, unlocked version and please don't complain about device costs when you are ready to sign away $2499-2740 when the alternative saves you approximately $1000.

I don't get people that complain about buying a device unlocked when they are ready sign away a huge amount of money. The same people seem to understand that computers don't cost $99 and then $100 in Internet Service or that TV sets are $199 paired with minimum cable package of $75. They can buy a computer for $699 or a TV set for $699 without complaining. But when it comes to a smartphone, it is a lot of moan and gritting teeth when the price tag says $599 so they prefer to pay $2499 for it instead since they are forced to sign a contract.

T-Mobile don't do contracts any more, I know that perfectly well but the fact remains: a T-Mobile branded device with 24 months of installments paired with service cost a lot more than the unlocked edition.

To me, $2499 and more is way too expensive for a smartphone so I always opt for the cheap route and buy it unlocked. I got a superior device, no carrier bloatware at all, no carrier branding at all, updates straight from the manufacturer, unlockable bootloader (for the Xperia Z) and everything the way Sony intended.

So buying a T-Mobile Xperia Z and truly believing that it is "cheaper" is a less optimum action. But it is obviously not my money, those that want to give $1000+ to a carrier are free to do so. We live in a free world.

But they should not even try to claim that those extra $1000 somehow is a "cheaper" deal. It is like claiming that $10 is more than $20 ($20 is 5 + 1 x 15 in this case).

I prefer to have $1000 in my wallet rather than giving them to a carrier and then "enjoying" branding, bloatware and locked bootloaders.

As I wrote, I wonder how people can buy a new computer, a car, a TV etc without subsidies but when it comes to a phone, then it is disaster to pay $599 and a cheap monthly plan when you can pay $1000 more just in order to think that "I paid only $99 for the device, it is cheaper than $599!"

 

[colacin]

I don't see any reason to wait if Carrier X will carry Device Y.

When the device is released, just go and buy it. Carrier branded devices are inferior and very expensive since there is a contract involved or an installment plan in the case of T-Mobile.

So just buy the Togari when it is released. To me, it is downright funny with all those people that asks "will Carrier X sell this device?" or "I hope that carrier X will bring this device in". To me, being dependent on a carrier is just an abnormal behavior. If an interesting device is released somewhere in the world, I just buy it provided that it works with my SIM card.

Whenever I return to the US I'm always astounded at how the carriers can ruin a phone - all the way back to the original Moto Razrs... It makes me feel sorry for the majority US phone customers who accept what the carriers give them actually have no idea what the phone manufacturer intended with the device.

 

[Poke_N_PDA]

Whenever I return to the US I'm always astounded at how the carriers can ruin a phone - all the way back to the original Moto Razrs... It makes me feel sorry for the majority US phone customers who accept what the carriers give them actually have no idea what the phone manufacturer intended with the device.

At least now on T-Mobile we can get plans where we aren't losing money by bringing our own phone. That can't be said for the other carriers meaning there is a significant added cost to buying unlocked handsets (higher monthly rates caused by subsidy payback). Additionally, if we want working HSPA+ and LTE (3G/4G), 95% of the time we can't use unlocked handsets or at least can't use them to the network's fullest potential.

For instance, the C6602 Xperia Z doesn't work perfectly. Here are the frequencies.

GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/900/1800/1900 and HSPA Bands 850/1900/2100

AT&T uses 1900 for HSPA+, but T-Mobile is actively refarming this frequency and it's coverage for it is low. It's main HSPA+ is on AWS 1700/2100 which doesn't work on this phone. Meanwhile, it lacks LTE all together. Additionally, the C6603 that does have LTE doesn't work on either AT&T or T-Mobile's bands.

With a few exceptions (like the Nexus 4), unlocked devices aren't made for the US because of the carrier lock down and subsidization business model. However that does look to be changing. We are starting to get unlocked US devices (the HTC one for example). However, it's a slow process. So my point is, it's not simple at all. If it was, I would be doing it.

 

[colacin]

With a few exceptions (like the Nexus 4), unlocked devices aren't made for the US because of the carrier lock down and subsidization business model. However that does look to be changing. We are starting to get unlocked US devices (the HTC one for example). However, it's a slow process. So my point is, it's not simple at all. If it was, I would be doing it.

Well, the devices themselves would work fine if given a chance to- it's the carriers who are the problems. After being in Singapore for such a long time where carriers are prohibited from selling locked handsets, visiting the US makes the whole system there seem a bit archaic.

I don't really know how the carriers here do it, since the cost of the phone (to the consumer) is about the same, and the monthly plan is usually cheaper.

 

[Poke_N_PDA]

Well, the devices themselves would work fine if given a chance to- it's the carriers who are the problems. After being in Singapore for such a long time where carriers are prohibited from selling locked handsets, visiting the US makes the whole system there seem a bit archaic.

I don't really know how the carriers here do it, since the cost of the phone (to the consumer) is about the same, and the monthly plan is usually cheaper.

yeah. I'm just REALLY hoping T-Mobile's plans catch on so the other carriers adopt it. If that happens, prices will drop like crazy, just like it did for tablets. If you are an American consumer who wants change in the mobile industry, the best thing you can do right now is switch to T-Mobile.

 

[E90 Commie]

At least now on T-Mobile we can get plans where we aren't losing money by bringing our own phone. That can't be said for the other carriers meaning there is a significant added cost to buying unlocked handsets (higher monthly rates caused by subsidy payback). Additionally, if we want working HSPA+ and LTE (3G/4G), 95% of the time we can't use unlocked handsets or at least can't use them to the network's fullest potential.

For instance, the C6602 Xperia Z doesn't work perfectly. Here are the frequencies.

GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/900/1800/1900 and HSPA Bands 850/1900/2100

AT&T uses 1900 for HSPA+, but T-Mobile is actively refarming this frequency and it's coverage for it is low. It's main HSPA+ is on AWS 1700/2100 which doesn't work on this phone. Meanwhile, it lacks LTE all together. Additionally, the C6603 that does have LTE doesn't work on either AT&T or T-Mobile's bands.

With a few exceptions (like the Nexus 4), unlocked devices aren't made for the US because of the carrier lock down and subsidization business model. However that does look to be changing. We are starting to get unlocked US devices (the HTC one for example). However, it's a slow process. So my point is, it's not simple at all. If it was, I would be doing it.

The specifications for the C6602 says (taken from GSM Arena):

HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100 - C6602

The Xperia C 6602 is fully capable of working on T-Mobile even in non-refarmed areas. I tried a SpeedTest on that carrier with my C6602 and got decent speeds.

Then I don't see the point of having LTE in the US just yet. To me, it is only useful if the data plan includes 10 GB or more. 2 GB of LTE data is just not interesting at all since no high quality streaming can be used, especially not if there is a desire to be able to browse the Internet etc.

To me, the most logical option in the US is to buy an unlocked phone and put a prepaid card in since the postpaid plans are just ridiculous. $100 per month for a basic plan is just insane but is the result of the carrier pretending to be a manufacturer (altering devices, buying a huge batch of them, support, recovery of subsidies etc). It is very naive when people believe that it is the "quality" that cost extra. No, it is not the quality but a disastrous business model.

To me, there's no doubt that having a postpaid contract in the US is just a waste of money when an unlocked, unbranded device with a prepaid card offers a superior deal. My experience of postpaid is simply that not even Verizon can be compared with a carrier like 3 in Sweden. When the monthly bill is included in the judgment, it is evident that prepaid and unlocked is the way to go.

For those that are using T-Mobile, their prepaid plans or one of the MVNOs (Straight Talk, Solavei) offers a better deal - especially with an unlocked, unbranded device.

It has been easy for me to ditch the contract and switch over to the unlocked, prepaid route but I am used to that model from Europe. Even if the market conditions in the US is very bad, there are still solutions available so the reasons to stick to postpaid are very limited. And no, 2 GB of LTE data doesn't change that.

I would even say that I rather use EDGE on an unlocked phone rather than LTE with a carrier branded one. To me, branding and $100 monthly bills are such a huge drawback that 2 GB of LTE data just can't compensate. On the same way I rather use a decent computer on a slow Internet connection than an inferior one on a fast connection.

Fortunately, it is possible to get perfectly good HSPA+ data from the MVNOs.

 

[Spectre51]

At least now on T-Mobile we can get plans where we aren't losing money by bringing our own phone. That can't be said for the other carriers meaning there is a significant added cost to buying unlocked handsets (higher monthly rates caused by subsidy payback). Additionally, if we want working HSPA+ and LTE (3G/4G), 95% of the time we can't use unlocked handsets or at least can't use them to the network's fullest potential.

For instance, the C6602 Xperia Z doesn't work perfectly. Here are the frequencies.

GSM/GPRS/EDGE 850/900/1800/1900 and HSPA Bands 850/1900/2100

AT&T uses 1900 for HSPA+, but T-Mobile is actively refarming this frequency and it's coverage for it is low. It's main HSPA+ is on AWS 1700/2100 which doesn't work on this phone. Meanwhile, it lacks LTE all together. Additionally, the C6603 that does have LTE doesn't work on either AT&T or T-Mobile's bands.

Yeah as noted above me that is incorrect info. The C6602 works just fine on T-Mobile HSPA+

C6602
UMTS HSPA+ 850 (Band V), 900 (Band VIII), 1700 (Band IV), 1900 (Band II), 2100 (Band I) MHz
GSM GPRS/EDGE 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz

But the C6606 is coming soon and will be exclusive.

As for the Togari Sep/Oct US release unlocked.

 

[23Six]

Is "Togari" just an internal codename or has Sony run out of letters?

 

[Spectre51]

Is "Togari" just an internal codename or has Sony run out of letters?

Internal code name

 

[Poke_N_PDA]

Yeah as noted above me that is incorrect info. The C6602 works just fine on T-Mobile HSPA+

C6602
UMTS HSPA+ 850 (Band V), 900 (Band VIII), 1700 (Band IV), 1900 (Band II), 2100 (Band I) MHz
GSM GPRS/EDGE 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz

But the C6606 is coming soon and will be exclusive.

As for the Togari Sep/Oct US release unlocked.

Well, I cut and pasted that info from Amazon.com. So it's only as accurate as that. Good to know Sony is one of the few who offer proper freqs.

Hopefully though T-Mobile's open nature will increase our unlocked offerings. Specifically, I bet the Motorola X will be available. Also, if the Xperia Z is I bet the Togari will be too.

 

[Poke_N_PDA]

So, back to point of the thread, do people agree that Sony devices work about as well as nexus devices for AOSP roms?