Question Vivo x90 pro+ vs S23U

[Haskren]

With the S23U released, has any of you seen a comparison between this and the pro+?
I am currently on the verge of importing an origin vivo in spite of the concerns voiced on this forum. At the end of the day, I want the best camera phone on the market and seems it's down to this and the S23U.
Samsung seems to have taken a different route to reducing noise in low light with that crazy 200mpx/pixel binning but got a feeling the bigger sensor will win. It seems to be a big improvement over the S22U though, and the highlight retainment/hdr in low light seems improved too. Question is how much better the Vivo is and whether it's worth the hassle of getting origin and the issues that come with it.
Has anyone of you had first hand experience with these 2 phones or seen reviews comparing the two? Perhaps it's too early days

 

[Kenshin1870]

Vivo all the way:
Better battery, biggest it doesn't mean better always (mine last 28-30 hours) with my use, (a lot camera, data, two facebooks, whastapp, telegram, signal, a lot of youtube and business apps like bank aps etc)
Better charging speeds (80w) and 50w wireless.
Better price (buy from aliexpress is like 1000$ or low)
Better cameras and sensors (all 4 of them)
Better low light photos and video
Better design
Vivo gives you charger, cable, and premium case.
Both are fast, there is no clear winner.

 

[extremecarver]

If you lucky there will be some review of the X90 Pro with comparison to S23U in english. You can hope for some Chinese reviews but even in China the X90 Pro+ is not that popular - there will be much more comparisons with Xiaomi 13 Pro.

It's rare that chinese only phones will be reviewed by quality review websites like notebookcheck or gsmarena. Though a review of the X90 Pro is quite likely after the huge advertisement campaign by Vivo and expensive laucnh events... Europe and US are not that likely to feature big events however with the Nokia vs BBK copyright claims. Something strangely rarely mentioned here.

Better battery life is clearly Samsung - many users reporting 10h Dot even on 4G/5G Data. Unherd of for X90 Pro+ (maybe X90 and X90 Pro could get close - they have much better idle drain/battery life).

Price in Europe is definitely in favour of S23U - which sells for 1169 for the 512GB version with warranty, with update policy that will end in 5 years not maybe in 2 years (older Vivo flagships X flagships - only the Funtouch X versions have 3 major updates promised and updates are already running late - no January securiy patch for X90 Pro+ even on trial channel). Yeah no charger but any PD charger works full speed, vs 18w on X90 Pro+.

It's too early to call out the cameras - I feel both aren't top. But Samsung bags Video easily and over 10x zoom. Vivo will likely win 3.5-9x zoom range.

Gorilla Glas Victus 2 vs unknown (likely Schott)

Bootloader Unlock/Root and after updates are over in 5 years likely Lineage OS and others to continue vs crippled software.

Accessibiltiy to Samsung shops for battery replacement in 2-3 years of time - vs unlikely to be able to get any authentic new batteries for the X90 Pro+ outside of China (and looking at the reports on here on older Vivo phones - batteries don't seem to age very well on Vivo flagships)

Android Backup/Auto/Assistant/Maps Timeline and maybe in future more (this list got bigger every 2 years)

The only points that clearly speak vor Vivo are the fingerprint reader and yeah I personally prefer the design too on the Vivo. Though I don't know how well the Vegan leather ages. Some conflicting reports here. And yeah fast charging on original charger with original cable (missing either means slower than Samsung)

Display is identical, processor mainly just a newer batch (but that means lower voltages in general)

Front Camera goes Samsung all the way. Vivo has a midtier phone grade front camera and only 1080P video on the front camera as the sensor does not support 4K/UHD (1440P woudl be possible by third party apps - but none offers that yet. The sensor does support it).

I feel v2 is a joke - seeing that I mainly use Gcam (which cannot use the v2 chip). 8gen2 ISP would be sufficient as I don't see what the v2 brings at all.

Both have much worse colours than Pixel/Iphone in my opinion. Both show great detail at night but that isn't everything. Both have big shutter lag but Samsung at least got the autofocus right (on all cameras and not missing on 2 out of 5) and the autofocus working accurately (while that is not true for the main sensor on Vivo).

Yeah portrait may be better on Vivo 2x camera - but ONLY for typical upper body portrait. If you do full body portrait with the body at 2/3 of the picture size or less - the 2x sensor without autofocus isn't very sharp anymore. Falling back to main sensor is not possible in portrait mode on the Vivo stock camera...


Vivo X90 Pro+ only has Qualcom Fastconnect 6900 vs 7800 on the S23u (meaning no wifi-7, maybe not even wifi-6e, so far no one could confirm it to work! and missing the newest bluetooth LE additions)

S23U got Qualcom X70 modem - unsure what Vivo uses (either botched firmware on X70 or is it x65 or is it a chinese modem?)

Software in general is miles better on Samsung and less buggy. Yeah Vivo is fluid but Samsung too.

I much rather trust Samsung to fix the software deficiencies it has (mainly on camera - everything else seams great) vs Vivo (which has many many fields to catch up - and some like anything google related will not improve except google goes back on offering full support for it's app that aren't system apps. However with EU/USA and so on pressuring google to allow manufacturers to supply phones without google apps as system apps, that strategy will likely widen in future - as it's an indirect pressure point to include maps, assistant and so on as system app - which is impossible for Chinese market phones if China doesn't allow google which is highly unlikely in the next years).


The 2x sensor on the Vivo would be useless if the 1x sensor had variable aperture (because the 2x sensor has only bokeeh that speaks for it, low light/resolution/autofocus and basically everything else are worse vs a crop from the main)

The case on the x90 is a nice plus, but I don't trust cases without air cushion and camera protection - so I don't really see the use for it. If you feel safe enough with that tiny case - you should feel safe enough without any case.

Gcam support will be much better on S23U as there will surely be nice profiles for color/noise while on X90 Pro+ you are left with dubious colours at night on gcams.


If the X90 Pro+ had bootloader unlock and root - some issures would be fixable (like google apps) and if lucky once Vivo stops updates there could be some Lineage OS support. Vivo that way kinda steels the only way for long term life of that phone.

 

[extremecarver]

Oh yeah - when it comes to Camera2 API (according to Proshoot Evaluator) - Vivos advantage is HEIC, Samsungs advantage is vendor extensions of bokeeh, HDR, beauty mode and night mode vs none on the x90 pro+.
And sadly on camera2 api 1440P video isn't offered so it's only 1080P30 vs 4k24/30 on the Samsung....
Vivo has 4k video on the 3.5x via camera2while Samsung only has 1080P30 on both zoom lenses.
Both don't have 4k60P on camera2 !

Both only offer pixel binned resolutions via camera2api so are both quite restricted.

 

[Haskren]

Vivo all the way:
Better battery, biggest it doesn't mean better always (mine last 28-30 hours) with my use, (a lot camera, data, two facebooks, whastapp, telegram, signal, a lot of youtube and business apps like bank aps etc)
Better charging speeds (80w) and 50w wireless.
Better price (buy from aliexpress is like 1000$ or low)
Better cameras and sensors (all 4 of them)
Better low light photos and video
Better design
Vivo gives you charger, cable, and premium case.
Both are fast, there is no clear winner.

Have you had any autofocus issues as pointed out in the response above?

 

[Mrxyzl]

Every single member of vivo x90 pro plus xda knows you are trolling . You are stating ' issues' that all the phone holders told you they dont exist . Starting with battery , going to camera , than from internal modems to OS related issues that ONLY you reported out of at least 10 holders here . Those are the real facts . You would normally be banned right now from other forums . Respect to the xda admins for being that patient with you .
And by the way , if you write extremely long texts speaking nonsense ... You dont bring any value at all . At first every single point you got about this phone its negative . Criticism would not be a problem as long as its constructive and positive but the main problem its lying . And you did this several times here .
Who's old here knows you are trolling . Who's new here definately notices immediately that you live on a different planet than earth .

So vivo has no bl unlock? Thats mean rarely update come?

 

[extremecarver]

Bl unlock doesn't mean anything about update frequency. But with official unlock (not unlock via Potential security bug) most popular phones will have a custom ROM community providing updates for a long time, while with without you are at mercy of the manufacturer. Just look up the update threads about older flagships like 50pro+ or 70pro+ to see how likely updates are on 90pro+. Does not look good to me.. . Vivo's update policy is only for international market. Right now X90 even with trial version is stuck on December security patches. S23U will receive February patches on 17 February (it's not officially available until then - strange release by Samsung this time)

I proved all my facts somewhere here before with screenshots or sources (or Link to fast connect 7800 at Qualcomm which states WiFi 7 compatibility which isn't advertised for X90 pro+. Not even WiFi 6e (though it could be possible it's supported but just not advertised in specs).

I reported vendetta17 now for breaking points 2.3 and 2.4 of the forum rules. He accuses me of lying without being able to prove a single lie.

And I posted positive points, quite a lot. This is one of the best cameras on a smartphone. I think even better than place 10 as dxomark indicates as their protocol doesn't value secondary lenses much. I see it as top 6 or 7 right now even for point and shoot. If you shoot RAW only and need huge prints then it's even the best (but I feel apple workflow with RAW is much easier, also s23U has better workflow with RAW as Lightroom comes already pre-installed but quality wise X90 Pro+ is better). Seeing basically very little mention of RAW and super RAW in relation to the X90 pro+ makes me feel professional photographers avoid Vivo phones no matter how much Vivo touts professional photography at it's press releases. Samsung or apple or google forums on the contrary are full with questions or remarks on RAW and comparisons to the jpg output.

If the X90 pro+ would be half price of s23U, iphone 14 pro max then I would praise it too. If it was even just the price of Pixel 7 pro and would have the same update policy I would recommend it all out. At current prices without any update policy and seeing that x50 Pro+ basically stopped getting updates after 2.5 years, and other Vivo x series being neglected after only a year I don't see it recommendable. It was the first phone with 8gen2 and vivo paid for that exclusive right to Qualcomm. It's not comparable to mate 20 pro or p30 Pro which were albeit slower updates great phones and aged well at cheaper price than other flagships back then. Yes right on hardware it looks great, just like s23U too, but not software.....

 

[vendetta17]

So vivo has no bl unlock? Thats mean rarely update come?

You cant unlock bootloader yet .

So vivo has no bl unlock? Thats mean rarely update come?

No bootloader unlock yet . If you talk about updates , i got 4 of them in about 40 days .

 

[Vinzie]

You cant unlock bootloader yet .

No bootloader unlock yet . If you talk about updates , i got 4 of them in about 40 days .

What version are you on then ? I know only of 3 updates... (not counting the last trial version)...

 

[jericho246]

13.0.18.3 is the latest one I believe.

 

[Vinzie]

13.0.18.3 is the latest one I believe.

Latest official ? A week ago I heard this version was release as trial version. I just checked but 13.0.18.2 is the last version for me...

 

[jericho246]

Latest official ? A week ago I heard this version was release as trial version. I just checked but 13.0.18.2 is the last version for me...

I got it earlier today in official update channel. Not trial.

 

[extremecarver]

BTW - eSim is also missing from the X90 Pro+, S23U has dual physical SIM plus 1 Esim support. Dual Active, Tripple Standby. There is no dual e-sim on the S23U however so far (unlike Pixel 7 which now has dual e-sim plus 1 physical SIM. Not sure if tripple standby is supported by Pixel however).
Only Xiaomi 13 Pro so far has Wifi-7 (though not yet enabled because it's draft). X70 modem phones maybe in the future could get wifi 7 enabled - but if the X90 Pro+ has no Wifi-6e - then it's very unlikely it has X70 modem after all.

 

[djshotty]

If the X90 Pro+ had bootloader unlock and root

Yes, but is there confirmation users can unlock the S23 Ultra's BL out of the box? I've had no end of trouble rooting my Note 10+ 5G over the almost three years I've owned it, so using an unrooted Vivo won't be that much of a biggie.

 

[djshotty]

Extremecaver has to much time....

Please explain how a person can "much" time...
if you believe Extremecaver has to do that.

It's TOO much time!

 

[extremecarver]

Well it's assumed to be the same process as on any other Samsung phone. Root is not the same as unlock! On my S7 and S8+ this was very easy. Root can be trouble with banking apps and so on. Bootloader unlock was super easy (yeah you void warranty on Samsung by rooting because of the e-fuse it will be forever but unlike Vivo no need for all that to get google apps fully working)

 

[P6P]

Yes, but is there confirmation users can unlock the S23 Ultra's BL out of the box? I've had no end of trouble rooting my Note 10+ 5G over the almost three years I've owned it, so using an unrooted Vivo won't be that much of a biggie.

Triggering Knox is the worst part with every Samsung ever. Such a crap system

 

[extremecarver]

Triggering Knox is the worst part with every Samsung ever. Such a crap system

Well it's much better than outright not offering bootloader unlock. I find it's a great system - brick your phone by software - Samsung isn't responsible anymore. I'm pretty sure if the phone still boots but doesn't charge anymore or camera dropout Knox will not be important - but I do not know for sure.
The other way but that is more complicated to remove warranty for rooted devices would be to simply hand out unlock codes in your device account and giving you a warning about losing warranty that way.

I find it's understandable manufacturers do not like to warranty rooted/unlocked devices due to the high chance of someone bricking their device in the process. It's giving the user a choice (and after 1 or 2 years depending on the manufacturer it's end of warranty anyhow).

 

[Killuminati91]

Vivo also has some kind of efuse or check system. Portrait mode did not work anymore after unlocking the bootloader / changing firmware on my x70 Pro Plus, even after reverting to stock completely.

But it doesnt matter, since we wont see another exploit for the Vivo. Waited a long time to decide between S23 Ultra / x90 Pro / x90 Pro Plus and with Vivo's price policy for the international model I definitely wont go for the x90 Pro. Software support and official availability in the west are deciding factors here.

If you want to judge vivo's dedication to the western market you just need to follow a phones announcement.
Website with a countdown that ran until 0:00:00, then nothing happened. Website still displays NaN-Timer and there has been absolute silence from vivo on when the global version is available and how much it will cost.

 

[P6P]

Vivo also has some kind of efuse or check system. Portrait mode did not work anymore after unlocking the bootloader / changing firmware on my x70 Pro Plus, even after reverting to stock completely.

But it doesnt matter, since we wont see another exploit for the Vivo. Waited a long time to decide between S23 Ultra / x90 Pro / x90 Pro Plus and with Vivo's price policy for the international model I definitely wont go for the x90 Pro. Software support and official availability in the west are deciding factors here.

Didn't know about vivo has a efuse or check system. But when it's really there its also crap.