Question Vivo x90 pro+ vs S23U
- Thread starter Haskren
- Start date
Well everyone has their own taste and i can't agree with your comment. I don't say oppo is bad and there maybe also some shots where it looks better but overall it's not.
Xiaomi is finally going the "natural pictures" way. It's nice to see they try to avoid the heavy processed pics. Less sharpness, less exposure, with "real" dark shadows that's what I want. Just a natural pic similar to what i get with my DSLR.
Xiaomi used to be great with gcam - soemthing that cannot be said of the X90 Pro+ (colors of hell in gcam).
If they manage full integration of gcam like Xiomi 10 Ultra it will be the ultimate camera phone of this year by a big margin (for daytime at least).
Even if the integration is only as good as in Xiaomi 11 Ultra it will still be the most DSLR like camera by leaps.
At night in very low light I'm not a fan of gcam. Very low light as handeld somewhere with very little street lights. If it's night on a rather busy street / decent lightning I still prefer gcam by bounds over what Vivo photo camera does.
Also that those sensors are meant to complement each others - is a huge plus especially for gcam.
Plus you can take group photos with the main sensor - unlike on X90P+ or Xiaomi 13 Pro or Find X6 Pro or Honor Magic 5. F4 instead of F1.9 is a big difference.
Plus Xiaomi said they improved the optics a lot - Xiaomi 13 Pro had clearly inferior optics vs X90 Pro+ so maybe it wasn't as much the algos but the lense...
If they manage full integration of gcam like Xiomi 10 Ultra it will be the ultimate camera phone of this year by a big margin (for daytime at least).
Even if the integration is only as good as in Xiaomi 11 Ultra it will still be the most DSLR like camera by leaps.
At night in very low light I'm not a fan of gcam. Very low light as handeld somewhere with very little street lights. If it's night on a rather busy street / decent lightning I still prefer gcam by bounds over what Vivo photo camera does.
Also that those sensors are meant to complement each others - is a huge plus especially for gcam.
Plus you can take group photos with the main sensor - unlike on X90P+ or Xiaomi 13 Pro or Find X6 Pro or Honor Magic 5. F4 instead of F1.9 is a big difference.
Plus Xiaomi said they improved the optics a lot - Xiaomi 13 Pro had clearly inferior optics vs X90 Pro+ so maybe it wasn't as much the algos but the lense...
Did you know that you can also change color settings in gcam?
Of course I know, now you tell me how I get a proper white balance in gcam with just fiddling with RGB values without any feedback mechanism and for different light conditions (which gcam has no setting for adjustment!). Because white balance at 1000K needs to way different from 6000K.
I even wrote settings that get gcam somehow realisting in the gcam thread for each camera module.
So far all Samsung and Xiaomi flagships that worked with gcam had same white balance to stock camera. Vivo however completely botched that up. For example for the Xiaomi 13 Ultra - will the variable aperture work with gcam? I am pretty sure it will not be implemented as a quick switch. I would thing that this will not work but well maybe some gcam devs can figure it out.
A fair comparison should always be with the best available software that works reliably. For Samsung S23U that's gcam. As for Xiaomi 10/11 Ultra.
And yeah for camera centric phones I think it can be well expected that the user choses the right scene mode too instead of just using auto. However than divide the test in snapshot (auto) or some effort (but not Pro/manual mode) and than maybe comparison of pro mode/manual mode and photoshop/lightroom (because very likely that for pics you shoot in that mode you will still postprocess vs very unlikely people postprocess all of their snapshots.
In my opinion we would be very close ... Once again with vivo that will be unbeatable on portraits with its 2x (f1.6 and 1/2.4 inches), a sensor slightly larger than the 13U
And at night again ISP V2 will make difference
11U shot better foto Vs 12U
12U for me shot very ****ty photo, hw and sw not work fine for me
13pro si a big step , but vs X90PP LOSE by far
13U again very close Vs X90PP
And at night again ISP V2 will make difference
11U shot better foto Vs 12U
12U for me shot very ****ty photo, hw and sw not work fine for me
13pro si a big step , but vs X90PP LOSE by far
13U again very close Vs X90PP
Mi 11 Ultra GCam is great for "natural" pictures. 13U could be amazing. But I would wait for GCam and 50MP mod before selling the X90PP, let's hope it's possible with the 13U like 10U and 11U.
Or maybe Xiaomi finally created a good stock camera. But I wouldn't bet on that.
Or maybe Xiaomi finally created a good stock camera. But I wouldn't bet on that.
Don't know for sure but most of people are happy with choosing build in awb profile or they just insert awb values manually.
Some gcams does have aperture change for Samsung (F2.4/F1.5 if i remember right) but i don't know does that work with other phones too.
Well most people don't know how to do a proper config. That's why they say xxx phone is bad for gcam usage. Even the nothing phone with a proper config is pretty good for example. (Main camera)
The Auto white ballanc works like absolute crap on X90PP in gcam.
Now the only way to get a setup is if you have access to a colorometer device and use that on a photo that you took and even then it will only work for one specific Kelvin value.
You would need at least 3-4 setups and then guess which setup to activate before shooting a picture.
AWB on Xiaomi/Samsung works - on Vivo X90 P+ doesn't work at all - because it's way off. The strange thing is the preview picture you see is identical to the stock camera in color - the picture after taking will be very different. That's what makes it worse - if at least preview would be same color as picture - but no you have absolutely no way of knowing how the color of the picture will turn out.
Because I hate shadows and some other things on the stock camera I usually still go for gcam but end up with loads of photos I can straight delete because color is off so much you cannot fix it in post. And again yeah can shoot raw but then I don't want to edit pics later - not that important to me. I may edit 3-4 pics a month but shoot hundreds a week - so for me Vivo camera really is inferior to S23U and expecially Pixel 7 Pro.
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Xiaobai review alraedy has some battery stats for heavy use / gaming of X13U - and the Chinese display doesn't do well vs Samsung at high brightness. It's good at low brightness.
Idle drain has never been a strong point on Xiaomi either - but it surely will be leages ahead of 90P+ which hits rock bottom for standby with fingerprint sensor not disabled and China OS. X13U you can buy global or if band 20 not important buy chinese and flash global.
For me X13U isn't an option. I would still rather get S23U or hope for Pixel 8 Pro (if Samsung GAA 3nm because it doesn't look like Samsung can get good efficiency at 4/5nm processes).
But yeah strictly for photo only - from the first reviews it looks to me like X13U is a winner.
The portrait mode on X90 pro plus has a face recognition setting in portait mode that will make a fusion of photos on different planes to have all in focus.
Vivo X90 pro plus has saturation and exposure settings presettable, like dsrl interfaces, no other phones have that, this makes it the most flexible of all.
I like it very much and I have compared with my S23 Ultra and Xiaomi 13 pro.
The xiaomi already sold, thinking to sell also S23U but I have to test the Vivo if normal phone usage always is ok for me.
Xiaomi 13 Ultra is very exciting, I will give it a try for sure.
That fusion doesn't seem to work too well - especially if someone moves. Same for food even food mode is not good - basically only chance is to zoom in and move away.
The only place that fusion workd okay is if you take a group photo in portrait mode of everyone lined up in a row - that's my experienc to it.
And what if someone moves? Any kind of fusion creates problems. I wonder if Xiaomi 13 ultra will try for fusion on ultrawide photos - the sensors are supposed to be matched so it could take just the outside on ultrawid and inside from main sensor... Huawei tried this on P30 Pro for zoom levels between 3x and 5x and removed it again later because it just didn't work well then. Now AI has advanced a lot in 4 years. With sensors color matched it could be useful again to take center of pic with main sensor. Even at night - usually at night if the center of the pic is lighter and outside darker that gives more ambiance anyhow (IF focus is on the center too - if focus is on outside of picture stupid idea).
The only place that fusion workd okay is if you take a group photo in portrait mode of everyone lined up in a row - that's my experienc to it.
And what if someone moves? Any kind of fusion creates problems. I wonder if Xiaomi 13 ultra will try for fusion on ultrawide photos - the sensors are supposed to be matched so it could take just the outside on ultrawid and inside from main sensor... Huawei tried this on P30 Pro for zoom levels between 3x and 5x and removed it again later because it just didn't work well then. Now AI has advanced a lot in 4 years. With sensors color matched it could be useful again to take center of pic with main sensor. Even at night - usually at night if the center of the pic is lighter and outside darker that gives more ambiance anyhow (IF focus is on the center too - if focus is on outside of picture stupid idea).
Ok but better than nothing, group photos is supposed all dont move. Yes, for objects this dont function, but, again not a big problem for me. Instead I would try to use the ultrawide for food.
And at f4 food in usually dim conditions will put at risk of microshakes or use of too great iso that will ruin the photo.
And at f4 food in usually dim conditions will put at risk of microshakes or use of too great iso that will ruin the photo.
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8If you lucky there will be some review of the X90 Pro with comparison to S23U in english. You can hope for some Chinese reviews but even in China the X90 Pro+ is not that popular - there will be much more comparisons with Xiaomi 13 Pro.
It's rare that chinese only phones will be reviewed by quality review websites like notebookcheck or gsmarena. Though a review of the X90 Pro is quite likely after the huge advertisement campaign by Vivo and expensive laucnh events... Europe and US are not that likely to feature big events however with the Nokia vs BBK copyright claims. Something strangely rarely mentioned here.
Better battery life is clearly Samsung - many users reporting 10h Dot even on 4G/5G Data. Unherd of for X90 Pro+ (maybe X90 and X90 Pro could get close - they have much better idle drain/battery life).
Price in Europe is definitely in favour of S23U - which sells for 1169 for the 512GB version with warranty, with update policy that will end in 5 years not maybe in 2 years (older Vivo flagships X flagships - only the Funtouch X versions have 3 major updates promised and updates are already running late - no January securiy patch for X90 Pro+ even on trial channel). Yeah no charger but any PD charger works full speed, vs 18w on X90 Pro+.
It's too early to call out the cameras - I feel both aren't top. But Samsung bags Video easily and over 10x zoom. Vivo will likely win 3.5-9x zoom range.
Gorilla Glas Victus 2 vs unknown (likely Schott)
Bootloader Unlock/Root and after updates are over in 5 years likely Lineage OS and others to continue vs crippled software.
Accessibiltiy to Samsung shops for battery replacement in 2-3 years of time - vs unlikely to be able to get any authentic new batteries for the X90 Pro+ outside of China (and looking at the reports on here on older Vivo phones - batteries don't seem to age very well on Vivo flagships)
Android Backup/Auto/Assistant/Maps Timeline and maybe in future more (this list got bigger every 2 years)
The only points that clearly speak vor Vivo are the fingerprint reader and yeah I personally prefer the design too on the Vivo. Though I don't know how well the Vegan leather ages. Some conflicting reports here. And yeah fast charging on original charger with original cable (missing either means slower than Samsung)
Display is identical, processor mainly just a newer batch (but that means lower voltages in general)
Front Camera goes Samsung all the way. Vivo has a midtier phone grade front camera and only 1080P video on the front camera as the sensor does not support 4K/UHD (1440P woudl be possible by third party apps - but none offers that yet. The sensor does support it).
I feel v2 is a joke - seeing that I mainly use Gcam (which cannot use the v2 chip). 8gen2 ISP would be sufficient as I don't see what the v2 brings at all.
Both have much worse colours than Pixel/Iphone in my opinion. Both show great detail at night but that isn't everything. Both have big shutter lag but Samsung at least got the autofocus right (on all cameras and not missing on 2 out of 5) and the autofocus working accurately (while that is not true for the main sensor on Vivo).
Yeah portrait may be better on Vivo 2x camera - but ONLY for typical upper body portrait. If you do full body portrait with the body at 2/3 of the picture size or less - the 2x sensor without autofocus isn't very sharp anymore. Falling back to main sensor is not possible in portrait mode on the Vivo stock camera...
Vivo X90 Pro+ only has Qualcom Fastconnect 6900 vs 7800 on the S23u (meaning no wifi-7, maybe not even wifi-6e, so far no one could confirm it to work! and missing the newest bluetooth LE additions)
S23U got Qualcom X70 modem - unsure what Vivo uses (either botched firmware on X70 or is it x65 or is it a chinese modem?)
Software in general is miles better on Samsung and less buggy. Yeah Vivo is fluid but Samsung too.
I much rather trust Samsung to fix the software deficiencies it has (mainly on camera - everything else seams great) vs Vivo (which has many many fields to catch up - and some like anything google related will not improve except google goes back on offering full support for it's app that aren't system apps. However with EU/USA and so on pressuring google to allow manufacturers to supply phones without google apps as system apps, that strategy will likely widen in future - as it's an indirect pressure point to include maps, assistant and so on as system app - which is impossible for Chinese market phones if China doesn't allow google which is highly unlikely in the next years).
The 2x sensor on the Vivo would be useless if the 1x sensor had variable aperture (because the 2x sensor has only bokeeh that speaks for it, low light/resolution/autofocus and basically everything else are worse vs a crop from the main)
The case on the x90 is a nice plus, but I don't trust cases without air cushion and camera protection - so I don't really see the use for it. If you feel safe enough with that tiny case - you should feel safe enough without any case.
Gcam support will be much better on S23U as there will surely be nice profiles for color/noise while on X90 Pro+ you are left with dubious colours at night on gcams.
If the X90 Pro+ had bootloader unlock and root - some issures would be fixable (like google apps) and if lucky once Vivo stops updates there could be some Lineage OS support. Vivo that way kinda steels the only way for long term life of that phone.6Vivo all the way:
Better battery, biggest it doesn't mean better always (mine last 28-30 hours) with my use, (a lot camera, data, two facebooks, whastapp, telegram, signal, a lot of youtube and business apps like bank aps etc)
Better charging speeds (80w) and 50w wireless.
Better price (buy from aliexpress is like 1000$ or low)
Better cameras and sensors (all 4 of them)
Better low light photos and video
Better design
Vivo gives you charger, cable, and premium case.
Both are fast, there is no clear winner.5
I hope not. Vivo should be able to go straight for March security updates. I guess in 5-6 days there will be the first quarterly Update in the trial channel with March security update.
The December patch came end of December I think. But really adding security patches should be an effort of some hours for a developer except if you need to dig some security holes up for spyware... Android is really modular by now. If Samsung can push that update within hours of google publishing it, can be expected by others to do it within a couple of days for current or last 2 years flagship devices. And no Vivo receives those things at the same time as Samsung, that is at least one month before it's included in the patches (except for actively exploited bugs that could be fixed as soon as possible) Only google software teams will very likely have access earlier.
And the thing is, as soon as those security updates are rolling and published including description there is a much higher chance of the bug to be exploited.
That's why manufacturers get access to them 1 month pre publication!
And that applies to Vivo/BBK too. Not Huawei anymore as they lost their certification. That's why it's really a shame if any Huawei device is updated quicker than the currently newest/most expensive BBK flagship (candybar not foldable).
And yeah I never had my phone hacked so far, but once my sever fully ransomware encrypted because I had setup windows updates to be installed 7 days delayed... (5 days past update Tuesday my remote desktop access got hacked). Any device that is connected to the internet simply needs to be updated quickly once updates are published. With android/linux it's harder than windows Server (yeah I also use Linux servers, but I need one windows server for some work stuff and make damn sure I can quickly restore it should it get hacked because I don't trust Windows much at all). There really should not be any phone out there not updated within 1 month of the security update being published.
E.g. the March security patches have two critical level bugs on Qualcomm hardware. Critical means they can be exploited without physical access or interaction. I didn't look into them but it's highly likely those two bug apply to 8gen2 phones (too).5
Dude why don't you sell your phone, you clearly hate it. From most of your posts, you've made the x90pp sound like the worst phone on the planet. This is a china only release so you should have known what you were getting into.5Ok. i am going to tell my personal experience with x90PP and a short hands on with s23 ultra, which is an incredible phone exactly like the s22u was
1- Camera:
- there is no way s23 camera can produce better pics than x90, its that simple
- even in zoom range ,if its not daylight vivo is better,
- i prefer vivos videos cuz its sharper, but its not conclusive like the photos part
- USE effects and be creative, this phone can produce DSLR quality photos
Battery
- my vivo's battery outlasts my daily driver iphone 14 pro max so for sure its better than s23
- no need to discuss the charging speed, i mean ... come on!
Biometrics:
- comparing both fingerprint and face unlock between these two is a joke, performance is MILES better with vivo
Software experience
i prefer oneui in general and all the useful options it gives but originOS has its own hidden gems, for example Easyshare application on PC and you can mirror wirelessly your phone to your PC Screen. customizing everything, the awesome widgets ,,,,, etc
gaming:
didnt get the chance to play with samsung but daily minimum 2 hours playing marvel future fight, some casual asphalt races and candy crush i can confirm this phone is built for gaming - no heat no lag no dropped frames and most importantly the days with heavy gaming seasions battery lasts minimum 7 to 8 hours SOT
now for unlocking bootloader- personally i dont care
but seriously who wants to unlock their bootloader these days? but if thats what you want. dont buy the vivo
there is no eSim but again "i dont care"
modem and reception and calls quality top notch
now the most important thing: the WOW Factor.
its a head turner, everyone will ask what the hell is this and it gives the this feeling that you have the best device at most of what it does + you are actually the only one have it
