" Where to go? "

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schwinn8

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2010
597
378
Somewhere in Connecticut
Where to go? Another post saying LG may be leaving the mobile market... and dropping us users completely:

Makes me reconsider the S10 again...
 

ChazzMatt

Recognized Contributor
Nov 30, 2010
18,440
14,312
Atlanta, Georgia
Where to go? Another post saying LG may be leaving the mobile market... and dropping us users completely:

Makes me reconsider the S10 again...



Similar story. I commented in the reader comment section:

=======
I still have a 2017 LG V30+, the best phone LG ever made. No notch, 6" 1440p OLED, quad DAC. Make MORE like that! But this time with UPDATES.

No one wants stupid "winged" phones, "rollable" display phones, dual display phones. Stop pushing out mid-tier Snapdragon 7xx phones with 1080p, while still trying to claim they are flagship.

Give the U.S. versions official LG bootloader unlock back, which you took away just as the 2017 U.S. Open market LG V30 were being released...

========
 

ChazzMatt

Recognized Contributor
Nov 30, 2010
18,440
14,312
Atlanta, Georgia
NEW official date to shut down Verizon CDMA:

Verizon will shut down its 3G network at the end of 2022

The new date is officially Dec. 31, 2022.
https://www.cnet.com/news/verizon-will-shut-down-its-3g-network-at-the-end-of-2022/

"We will turn off the last of the 3G CDMA network on Dec. 31, 2022, months after our competitors have shut off their networks completely," says Mike Haberman, Verizon's vice president of network engineering. He says that this new date "will not be extended again," adding that the company is "communicating this again now in order to provide customers plenty of time to complete their migration."
 
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ldeveraux

Senior Member
  • Nov 20, 2008
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    NEW official date to shut down Verizon CDMA:

    Verizon will shut down its 3G network at the end of 2022

    The new date is officially Dec. 31, 2022.
    https://www.cnet.com/news/verizon-will-shut-down-its-3g-network-at-the-end-of-2022/

    "We will turn off the last of the 3G CDMA network on Dec. 31, 2022, months after our competitors have shut off their networks completely," says Mike Haberman, Verizon's vice president of network engineering. He says that this new date "will not be extended again," adding that the company is "communicating this again now in order to provide customers plenty of time to complete their migration."
    4G has been around for nearly a decade now. It's time to let 3G die...
     

    schwinn8

    Senior Member
    Aug 12, 2010
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    Somewhere in Connecticut
    If the coverage of 4G was as good as 3G, I'd agree... but to this day, I can drive in parts of NY and VT where there is no 4G but there is 4-5 bars of 3G. If they will convert these towers to 4G (why haven't they already?) then great, but if they haven't done it yet, then I question if they ever will.
     

    ChazzMatt

    Recognized Contributor
    Nov 30, 2010
    18,440
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    Atlanta, Georgia
    4G has been around for nearly a decade now. It's time to let 3G die...

    I agree, but the issue is VoLTE for people who use LOS-based ROMs. IF you don't have VoLTE capability, the phone calls drop down temporarily to 3G (either HSPA or CDMA) for the duration of the call. With HSPA you even still get data. Then when call finishes it goes back to LTE.
     

    ldeveraux

    Senior Member
  • Nov 20, 2008
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    I agree, but the issue is VoLTE for people who use LOS-based ROMs. IF you don't have VoLTE capability, the phone calls drop down temporarily to 3G (either HSPA or CDMA) for the duration of the call. With HSPA you even still get data. Then when call finishes it goes back to LTE.
    No, I know, that's why I haven't used LOS ROMs in years. There are many reasons really, but this is the icing on the cake. Modified stock for me!
     

    tech_infinity

    Senior Member
    Jun 16, 2014
    2,450
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    aakashverma.com
    Are any of you considering getting one last LG while there's still stock?
    Software updates will probably be dead outside Korea but prices may fall making it a good deal.

    Just this morning I was reading about LG's demise becoming official , at that very moment, my v30 display finally got messed up( I'd already cracked it but it worked fine for a few months). Now it randomly stops displaying or throws random colors making it unfit for daily use 😅.

    Now I'm not sure which phone to buy next, most phones are filled with ads, bloatware or lack SD card and headphone jack.
    Only LG Velvet, Wing and G8x sell here in India for now. Might get G8x as it has a Hifi DAC and SD card if the price drops but lack of software and customer support is troubling.
     

    ChazzMatt

    Recognized Contributor
    Nov 30, 2010
    18,440
    14,312
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Are any of you considering getting one last LG while there's still stock?
    Software updates will probably be dead outside Korea but prices may fall making it a good deal.

    Just this morning I was reading about LG's demise becoming official , at that very moment, my v30 display finally got messed up( I'd already cracked it but it worked fine for a few months). Now it randomly stops displaying or throws random colors making it unfit for daily use 😅.

    Now I'm not sure which phone to buy next, most phones are filled with ads, bloatware or lack SD card and headphone jack.
    Only LG Velvet, Wing and G8x sell here in India for now. Might get G8x as it has a Hifi DAC and SD card if the price drops but lack of software and customer support is troubling.

    I just bought my mother an 2018 64GB AT&T V35 ($138) off eBay as AT&T Prepaid is sending her and my wife "3G Shutdown" text messages stating their "phone" (native Open Market US998 V30 from B&H Photo) will not work on AT&T after next February 2022. :rolleyes: It must mean they are reserving VoLTE for AT&T branded phones on AT&T Prepaid service.

    However, they also said starting April 12 (next week) they MAY route your outgoing calls FIRST to AT&T Customer Service -- so someone can explain to you from a script how AT&T is greedy and stupid. And of course they want to sell you a new Samsung phone for $1100 or whatever. My 90-year old mother doesn't understand any of this and I don't want AT&T Customer Service to hassle her for the next 10 months every time she makes a phone call.

    I already have a like-new 64GB AT&T V35 in a box for my wife -- but problem with it is it has non-AT&T firmware on it (from previous owner). It probably needs AT&T firmware for the VoLTE on AT&T Prepaid. Or if they only check IMEI (which is AT&T V35) and my wife starts using it, maybe the nag messages will go away and I can decide what to buy her by next February. Or maybe I can send it back to LG Service Center and they can put AT&T firmware back on for low price?

    I have NOT received any such 3G Shutdown messages myself on my native Open Market US998 V30+, but I have AT&T Postpaid. Also I'm rooted and have VoLTE flag enabled through the Shortcuts. I don't think it works, as it may not be enabled on AT&T's side, but nevertheless they are not hassling me to change phones.
     
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    ldeveraux

    Senior Member
  • Nov 20, 2008
    2,375
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    I just bought my mother an 2018 64GB AT&T V35 ($138) off eBay as AT&T Prepaid is sending her and my wife "3G Shutdown" text messages stating their "phone" (native Open Market US998 V30 from B&H Photo) will not work on AT&T after next February 2022. :rolleyes: It must mean they are reserving VoLTE for AT&T branded phones on AT&T Prepaid service.

    However, they also said starting April 12 (next week) they MAY route your outgoing calls FIRST to AT&T Customer Service -- so someone can explain to you from a script how AT&T is greedy and stupid. And of course they want to sell you a new Samsung phone for $1100 or whatever. My 90-year old mother doesn't understand any of this and I don't want AT&T Customer Service to hassle her for the next 10 months every time she makes a phone call.

    I already have a like-new 64GB AT&T V35 in a box for my wife -- but problem with it is it has non-AT&T firmware on it (from previous owner). It probably needs AT&T firmware for the VoLTE on AT&T Prepaid. Or if they only check IMEI (which is AT&T V35) and my wife starts using it, maybe the nag messages will go away and I can decide what to buy her by next February. Or maybe I can send it back to LG Service Center and they can put AT&T firmware back on for low price?

    I have NOT received any such 3G Shutdown messages myself on my native Open Market US998 V30+, but I have AT&T Postpaid. Also I'm rooted and have VoLTE flag enabled through the Shortcuts. I don't think it works, as it may not be enabled on AT&T's side, but nevertheless they are not hassling me to change phones.
    Reason #8948473 to switch from AT&T
     
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    Ashtrix

    Senior Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    1,629
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    As much as I do not like the DRM wiping keys Bootloader unlock shenanigans, the Xperia 1 Mark III looks like an extremely solid contender guys. Check it out. So many features are there...my small write up.

    Battery with some kind of battery protection technology remember Qnovo ? LG V30 has it. Sony phones used to have it as well, it just vanished now anyways they are saying it has good battery longevity after 3 years..4500MaH is pretty good. I heard Sony battery optimization is good apparently. Then that H.S Power control is super neat for power usage.

    Display with the 120Hz with 240Hz Touch response, that 4K OLED is truly overkill, I wish they just went with 1440P OLED panel instead, however I think it might switch dynamically also I think it's not that new VRR panel, which has Variable Refresh Rates (I don't know much Anandtech has pretty good writeup on the tech from OnePlus 9 series). Oh I almost forgot, they are advertising "Symmetry Design" sounds familiar ? Yes, it was "Balanced Design" on LG V30, shame that they abandoned it. This phone also has symmetric bezels with no BS notch or hole and flanked by FF stereo speakers.

    Audio
    360 Reality sound might be DTS X type DSP system however I heard xda news that, Sony is bringing that technology to Android itself, like LDAC, so probably it might be exclusive to future Sony Wireless Audio products, 1000MX series is the only one that I know which has 900Kbps data rate with LDAC, higher than AptXHD (550Kbps) they are having some kind of ecosystem around it as well.

    3.5mmjack part is a downgrade vs LG, ESS9218P with Impulse Response filters and capability to drive even those Final Audio IEMs like E5000 is a feat from LG. I doubt Sony can do that, they could have beat that with their Walkman DAC technologies where Sony simply builds their own tech (WM1A / WM1Z check those DAPs out, however LG is king in this area, as it crushes DAPs due to the hw package). Missed oppurtinity I would say since ASUS ROG5 got ESS DAC this round. However having analog port is a huge plus.

    Stereo Speaker system looks promising this time, I listened to old Xperia flagship speakers which was the first Xperia flagship that removed 3.5mm jack. It was okay sound but not great in output but quality was good. They are mentioning this one has 40% powerful speakers than Xperia 1 Mark II, was told in their event video & also some guy from their Sony Battery Studio worked on Xperia mark 2 and this 3 phones it seems for the tuning, god knows if it's snake oil or not, I don't have much expectations on line out since I'm spoiled by LG.

    Cameras, not much into knowing a lot, but looks definitely promising HW esp that Variable Optical Zoom looks superb along with their 3D ToF sensor for fast AF (V30 has Laser) & that dedicated shutter button will be real game changer for this work. The Software lacks Focus Peaking sadly, and the LG Audio features of 24Bit FLAC and LCF, and all that tech is gone, the things it has is a Solid UI, exactly like V30 but the display won't fully show the video instead it will have a black box with all the UI elements and camera feed will be 70% of that, just see any video of these phones you will understand what I'm saying. Then they have that Wind Noise filter in this, which is useful for us. More AF and Eye Focus features are there too. Read more here at DPReview Press release page (check comments, interesting stuff there), Apparently there's some Temporal Noise Reduction in this phone which looks very good in those press shots.

    SoC
    5G is sub 6Ghz and not mmWave, maybe it's better for us since it lacks insane HW that pumps out EM waves and consumes battery since those modules are tiny ones still generate a a quite substantial amount of heat (LG V60 managed to get them in the phone, Xperia 1 II Pro did it with a poly carbonate back but they deployed an insane Vapor Chamber cooling solution check Jerryrig guy teardown for that phone to know about it) and it's still not useful in N.A market, apart from the world this is used only in US for now and we do not have that tech matured at all, I read it works on T-Mo and Verizon but not ATT 5G network, could be wrong, checking out is better.

    RAM is 12GB which is too much, storage is 256GB UFS dunno which version of UFS probably 3.1 and MicroSD slot for us folks its IP68 with flap closed (SIM/SD slot) and open it's IP65. In box they are shipping 30W charger, IEMs. Cost will be sky high which is REAL BS damn it, it will be over $1000 for sure. If we drop to Xperia 5 Mark III we will lose Qi and the beautiful design will be replaced by a glossy mess and 1080P display & no Gorilla Glass Invictus (top phone has it on display only) on front but Gorilla Glass 6 on both front and back, 8GB/128GB and rest all same package.


    It is very temping and I liked it a lot, what do you guys think ?

    This promo also looks and sounds superb too..

     
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    schwinn8

    Senior Member
    Aug 12, 2010
    597
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    Somewhere in Connecticut
    Personally I would aim more towards the smaller one, the Xperia 5 III (WTF is up with the naming here?!) and even then I'm not sure I would be interested, certainly not at "new" prices... I expect this would be around a $1000 or higher phone, because it looks like they're just trying to shove any spec they can into it.

    I don't care about the higher speed camera or display. The sound is nice, but honestly with headphones, who cares about the speakers? As for the DAC, I may in the minority, but I do most of my music over BT anyway, so the DAC is not a factor. When I played with the DAC on my V30, I really don't notice much difference (yes it's louder and has different equalization, which I can do with an EQ... but is it "better"? Not to my ears. Granted, others may hear a difference, I simply don't, and neither does my wife.) So those upgrades are lost to me.

    I compared it to the relatively old Galaxy S10, for example... the Sony has a larger battery, faster CPU, and that seems to be about it? Everything else seem to be similar or even worse spec? Again, even at $1k, I'd be happier in the S10 as I'm not seeing much more here to look at, and the S10 would be less than half that price...

    I guess I'm just not seeing any useful upgrade to the 5-III...
     
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    Personally I would aim more towards the smaller one, the Xperia 5 III (WTF is up with the naming here?!) and even then I'm not sure I would be interested, certainly not at "new" prices... I expect this would be around a $1000 or higher phone, because it looks like they're just trying to shove any spec they can into it.

    I don't care about the higher speed camera or display. The sound is nice, but honestly with headphones, who cares about the speakers? As for the DAC, I may in the minority, but I do most of my music over BT anyway, so the DAC is not a factor. When I played with the DAC on my V30, I really don't notice much difference (yes it's louder and has different equalization, which I can do with an EQ... but is it "better"? Not to my ears. Granted, others may hear a difference, I simply don't, and neither does my wife.) So those upgrades are lost to me.

    I compared it to the relatively old Galaxy S10, for example... the Sony has a larger battery, faster CPU, and that seems to be about it? Everything else seem to be similar or even worse spec? Again, even at $1k, I'd be happier in the S10 as I'm not seeing much more here to look at, and the S10 would be less than half that price...

    I guess I'm just not seeing any useful upgrade to the 5-III...
    I'm sure they will be up there in price as the part ii versions of xperia 1 and 5 are still selling for $700-800ish used. It's crazy.

    As for the S10, I started looking at them, you have to purchase the unlock, which I suppose isn't terrible depending on the price. Have you looked into it?

    Edited for spelling and grammer
     
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    • 1
      It's official, let the drooling begin.

      1
      As much as I do not like the DRM wiping keys Bootloader unlock shenanigans, the Xperia 1 Mark III looks like an extremely solid contender guys. Check it out. So many features are there...my small write up.

      Battery with some kind of battery protection technology remember Qnovo ? LG V30 has it. Sony phones used to have it as well, it just vanished now anyways they are saying it has good battery longevity after 3 years..4500MaH is pretty good. I heard Sony battery optimization is good apparently. Then that H.S Power control is super neat for power usage.

      Display with the 120Hz with 240Hz Touch response, that 4K OLED is truly overkill, I wish they just went with 1440P OLED panel instead, however I think it might switch dynamically also I think it's not that new VRR panel, which has Variable Refresh Rates (I don't know much Anandtech has pretty good writeup on the tech from OnePlus 9 series). Oh I almost forgot, they are advertising "Symmetry Design" sounds familiar ? Yes, it was "Balanced Design" on LG V30, shame that they abandoned it. This phone also has symmetric bezels with no BS notch or hole and flanked by FF stereo speakers.

      Audio
      360 Reality sound might be DTS X type DSP system however I heard xda news that, Sony is bringing that technology to Android itself, like LDAC, so probably it might be exclusive to future Sony Wireless Audio products, 1000MX series is the only one that I know which has 900Kbps data rate with LDAC, higher than AptXHD (550Kbps) they are having some kind of ecosystem around it as well.

      3.5mmjack part is a downgrade vs LG, ESS9218P with Impulse Response filters and capability to drive even those Final Audio IEMs like E5000 is a feat from LG. I doubt Sony can do that, they could have beat that with their Walkman DAC technologies where Sony simply builds their own tech (WM1A / WM1Z check those DAPs out, however LG is king in this area, as it crushes DAPs due to the hw package). Missed oppurtinity I would say since ASUS ROG5 got ESS DAC this round. However having analog port is a huge plus.

      Stereo Speaker system looks promising this time, I listened to old Xperia flagship speakers which was the first Xperia flagship that removed 3.5mm jack. It was okay sound but not great in output but quality was good. They are mentioning this one has 40% powerful speakers than Xperia 1 Mark II, was told in their event video & also some guy from their Sony Battery Studio worked on Xperia mark 2 and this 3 phones it seems for the tuning, god knows if it's snake oil or not, I don't have much expectations on line out since I'm spoiled by LG.

      Cameras, not much into knowing a lot, but looks definitely promising HW esp that Variable Optical Zoom looks superb along with their 3D ToF sensor for fast AF (V30 has Laser) & that dedicated shutter button will be real game changer for this work. The Software lacks Focus Peaking sadly, and the LG Audio features of 24Bit FLAC and LCF, and all that tech is gone, the things it has is a Solid UI, exactly like V30 but the display won't fully show the video instead it will have a black box with all the UI elements and camera feed will be 70% of that, just see any video of these phones you will understand what I'm saying. Then they have that Wind Noise filter in this, which is useful for us. More AF and Eye Focus features are there too. Read more here at DPReview Press release page (check comments, interesting stuff there), Apparently there's some Temporal Noise Reduction in this phone which looks very good in those press shots.

      SoC
      5G is sub 6Ghz and not mmWave, maybe it's better for us since it lacks insane HW that pumps out EM waves and consumes battery since those modules are tiny ones still generate a a quite substantial amount of heat (LG V60 managed to get them in the phone, Xperia 1 II Pro did it with a poly carbonate back but they deployed an insane Vapor Chamber cooling solution check Jerryrig guy teardown for that phone to know about it) and it's still not useful in N.A market, apart from the world this is used only in US for now and we do not have that tech matured at all, I read it works on T-Mo and Verizon but not ATT 5G network, could be wrong, checking out is better.

      RAM is 12GB which is too much, storage is 256GB UFS dunno which version of UFS probably 3.1 and MicroSD slot for us folks its IP68 with flap closed (SIM/SD slot) and open it's IP65. In box they are shipping 30W charger, IEMs. Cost will be sky high which is REAL BS damn it, it will be over $1000 for sure. If we drop to Xperia 5 Mark III we will lose Qi and the beautiful design will be replaced by a glossy mess and 1080P display & no Gorilla Glass Invictus (top phone has it on display only) on front but Gorilla Glass 6 on both front and back, 8GB/128GB and rest all same package.


      It is very temping and I liked it a lot, what do you guys think ?

      This promo also looks and sounds superb too..

      1
      Personally I would aim more towards the smaller one, the Xperia 5 III (WTF is up with the naming here?!) and even then I'm not sure I would be interested, certainly not at "new" prices... I expect this would be around a $1000 or higher phone, because it looks like they're just trying to shove any spec they can into it.

      I don't care about the higher speed camera or display. The sound is nice, but honestly with headphones, who cares about the speakers? As for the DAC, I may in the minority, but I do most of my music over BT anyway, so the DAC is not a factor. When I played with the DAC on my V30, I really don't notice much difference (yes it's louder and has different equalization, which I can do with an EQ... but is it "better"? Not to my ears. Granted, others may hear a difference, I simply don't, and neither does my wife.) So those upgrades are lost to me.

      I compared it to the relatively old Galaxy S10, for example... the Sony has a larger battery, faster CPU, and that seems to be about it? Everything else seem to be similar or even worse spec? Again, even at $1k, I'd be happier in the S10 as I'm not seeing much more here to look at, and the S10 would be less than half that price...

      I guess I'm just not seeing any useful upgrade to the 5-III...
    • 4
      @ChazzMatt and really everybody, why has the V50 not been considered? Seems to check all the same boxes (external SD, 1440p, qi charging, headphone port). It's on sale today for $260 here: https://ebay.to/2Z1Wydl

      Also it appears to be bl unlockable here:
      and

      What am I missing??

      Hmmm.... This is very new development. Late January 2021. I didn't know about it, but then I have two new children. :)

      But until now, all the non-European V50 (Korean, U.S. Sprint) could only get some kind of temp root, not permanent root. (Euro V50 of course has official LG bootloader unlock.)

      With this new development for people using T-Mobile (Sprint), with the Sprint V50 seems (since it was a "Sprint" branded phone) they would have VoLTE/VoWiFi) if they stay on rooted stock firmware. AT&T people would probably be out of luck. AT&T users have a year until HSPA shuts down.

      Sprint V50 does have LTE band 13 so should work with Verizon SIM card. Curious about Verizon VoLTE with an already-activated Verizon SIM card.

      The root guide says Android 10 is required, so you would have to buy one with that already installed since Sprint didn't release public KDZ. Sprint (now T-mobile) wouldn't allow updates unless you had their SIM card installed. This was why non-Sprint owners of LS998 had to Frankenstein to US998 even before the WTF exploit was created. Frankenstein was to 1) carrier unlock and 2) help users update to newer KDZ firmware.

      I see those on eBay are already carrier-unlocked, but you would need to make sure they have Android 10 installed...

      4
      My v30's display and back glass got cracked at the corners.
      Fingerprint also stopped working.
      But I'm so appalled by the so called "flagship" phones' lack of features that I'm going to stick with V30 until it falls apart.
      My love for V30 is also playing a part in the decision I guess.
      But personally it makes no sense to spend a lot of money to get a Phone without SD card, headphone jack and root
      4
      My v30's display and back glass got cracked at the corners.
      Fingerprint also stopped working.
      But I'm so appalled by the so called "flagship" phones' lack of features that I'm going to stick with V30 until it falls apart.
      My love for V30 is also playing a part in the decision I guess.
      But personally it makes no sense to spend a lot of money to get a Phone without SD card, headphone jack and root

      Well, unfortunately i broke mine too. It was a stupid accident. The glass panel is cracked at the very rounded edge of the assembly, a deep crack million pieces held by screen guard. The display took a hit at the lowest it shows white lines (not a big deal). The screen protector is a that water based one which is holding it well. The display doesn't flex still thankfully, however the crack is bad. Over the time it will definitely have some impact... Until then I'm not going to move to any other phone.

      Once it dies off, going to pay for the display repair and other servicing at LG repair and get a new battery and make this into a full rooted Oreo DAP without any SIM usage it will run for 10 years for sure If I just keep it topped off at Charging and then maybe even request LG to ship me a battery if possible. There are so many DAP reviews at Head Fi and YT. They have garbage OS / Stupid form factors / extremely underpowered chipsets / no root no mods nothing fun and more.. LG phones are to be honest Class A DAPs which have no rivals in the industry.

      So just to discuss the landscape...for many of us folks.

      - root with BL unlock
      - no hole no notch, no display mutilation.
      - 3.5mm jack (not much important now because this phone will be used as a DAP and I have an old iPod with modded Firmware and SD flash modded, uses a solid Wolfson DAC)
      - SD card slot (more important than 3.5mm jack for me since this phone is going to be a DAP, Sd slot is must because I cannot rely on a storage which locks behind a display what if the display is cracked and I cannot access anything personal ?)

      And I cannot find a phone ... how low Android has fallen in both Software and Hardware, it's just sad.

      - Samsung phones had them but no more, and US versions no BL unlock, Exynos is a mess (S10 is good, but the Samsung policy of repair is bad and LTE in US is broken due that that regional differences)
      - Sony phones have them still and new Xperia 1 Mark III is about to be announced with 3.5mm jack and SD slot and that useless 4K OLED at $1200+ and bonus DRM keys wiped for Bravia engine, and Sound processing for unlocking BL. Even If I take hit, the price is too much, which killed the XDA scene due to obscene pricing. They could have sold them at low prices with BF and Chrismas / New Year deals but they are not doing it. Utter damn shame.
      - LG, since we all know about this company's fate now (so many reorgs, no BL unlocks, bad software - I love v30 UX esp Oreo one. Because it just works no BS but after V30 they changed whole camera UI and copied Samsung ugly pill design One UI garbage and what not... now they are closing shop ??)
      - ASUS ditched with Zenfone 7 for 3.5mm jack and that motorized camera is improved with this which is superb for no notch/hole but I don't want it tbh and loss of IP rating on top their ZF7 didn't even launch in US plus it lacks US bands I guess.
      - OnePlus, overpriced and heavily markted garbage with no basic features but has solid custom ROM community, which is a great niche bonus which all phones lack now.
      - Motorola phones ? I remember during Moto X days while Nexus 6 was in prime and before selling to Lenovo by Google, not sure if they have any good phones now..

      (ignored display resolution downgrades because HW is more important sadly now.)

      I was checking the Pixel 4a forums, there is no guide for basics on A/B slotting BS I remember that from a long time how bad it is, people are asking if the TWRP even works with no dev response. Horrible state of Pixel phones, what the actual fk really and on top Telegram channels and other BS instead of discussing here on forums FFS. Nexus phones were supreme in this aspect, I owned Galaxy Nexus, it was a breeze to flash and unlock. I really miss those days.

      Does it even make sense for updates guys ? What is that you crave for in the new Android 9 and up ? I saw WiFiman won't work on Pie, that's just one.., Just look at Android 10+ the atrocious recents is really useless, they put horizontal cards that to not even stacked, so basically you won't know which apps are running and how to fast switch since it's gestures. The buttons are optional thankfully which is ofc superior.

      Security updates, yes they are very important but honestly I have been running rooted Android and Windows machines with 7 and 8.1 with no updates yes I can update, but I don't bother since I know what I'm doing so unfortunately this doesn't apply to all since many will click on bad pages, bad browsing habits, poor add-on / extensions utilization etc. So sec updates matter but sadly no OEM nor Google, nor the chipset maker care, because this market is the biggest rip off.

      SAF hits very hard on top. Scoped Storage just killed everything that Android had, for eg - Kiwi Browser, I downloaded an image / pdf. I cannot see it under normal folder structure because it downloads to its own folder. Now there's one Pixel example, Pixel recorder, it has all the recordings but when you go to storage, with files default bs app, you cannot see it because Scoped Storage, one must "Share" through that app's menu to other apps, you know where this happens ? iOS. It's exact same. So basically Android is castrated hard at the basic level - Filesystem. You know which one shares the same disaster ? UWP, Windows 10 DRM. That Xbox Games as a Service bs uses it too, nothing is accessible to user no mods, no tweaks nothing. Any game the overlays won't work - FPS info, HW info and tools like MSI AB / HWInfo / Rivatuner etc. All inspired by control freaks at Apple corp.

      Now when I looked at phones to buy all I see are hole/notched garbage phones without SD slots, no 3.5mm jacks, broken filesystem with high performance hit on top due to the SAF API. I even said bye to Xposed since Rovo went offline, because I didn't want extra battery drain on this phone (and the stupid 2FA garbage checks, luckily I backed up those apps which work an update to them will render the 2FA broke), but now to give up storage also ? I refuse to play along this stupid game now. Android as a pocket computer is dead. It's just a glorified iOS alternative for Social Media BS nothing more, for instance this phone has USB to Video out, I highly doubt any new phone has it, maybe Sony. HTC, LG, Samsung used to do in the past & that's a niche feature but it's now lacking basic things.

      So I refuse to spend a lot of money for these replaceable garbage consumerism products, $1000 phone value depreciation under 1 year is 40% hit with Android market, and that's a lot of money loss for absolutely 2 years of max lifespan due to Li Ion battery cells. It's really waste of money. I still have to rely on a phone because of Office work due to the stupid 2FA and I need to use banking apps since we all rely on the go computing.. for now I'm fine because WFH.

      And I absolutely agree that LG Dev team really on purpose put this exploit. This dev team is probably that last folks which handled the Software and HW so well, apparently some are still there that's how LG still packs a lot in a phone but the days are numbered for them.

      Tell me if anyone has any ideas...just my opinion/rant maybe. I could only share with my V30 family here.
      4
      You don't have to switch/upgrade a phone just because it's old. If it still meets your basic requirements and functions on a high level, don't buy into the hype. Seems like your only issue with the V30 is the battery capacity over time, which is every battery ever. That's why I bought another relatively unused V30!

      For the record, I just looked in Magisk and I have 15 apps with root access. There's no way I replace those all with non-root apps, no way.
      Oh don't worry, I don't upgrade for the sake of upgrading... not my style. I still have my VERY old desktop computer that runs an old Athlon X2 CPU that I use for computer repair and data recovery purposes.

      Battery is the issue... as you mentioned, they wear out. I could consider another V30, but I'd also like more RAM and performance/efficiency, particularly for my wife who really uses her V30 hard. She's on it constantly and the "2 day" battery never lasted that long for her, and it's down to like half a day for her.

      Maybe that's the trick - I stay on the V30 and get her a new battery via new phone. Her Magisk only has TiBu, and she doesn't even use that app (I use it when I'm working on her phone). My phone adds Tasker, but I don't know that I need it to have root. Hence my direction that maybe I don't need root after all...

      So, again, it looks like I may not "need" root... as much as I'd prefer the principle of having it...

      Again, if people have other devices to recommend, bring it on...
      3
      Finally, months after creating this topic I moved to... the LG V50.

      Bought a brand new one... and as much as I was afraid not being able to to root I'm that satisifed.

      I think it was a great decision. I tested an S10+ and even had a thought about the P30 Pro. They both have more RAM, that seem to be more future proof, but I felt to change to the V50, that might be the last true LG flagship.

      The S10+ is full of Samsung crap, so I dropped that idea pretty fast. I really do not know what was against the P30 Pro, as my brother has that and is very staisfied with it. Probably the MIL-STD-810 rating... I use it for tracking my trail runs, so it is with me all the time. Durability was a major concern.

      It arrived with Pie and I instantly upgraded to the latest Android 10. The system is really free of junk. It is possible to disable all, and I really mean all the unnecessary apps. I rooted the V30 only for this.

      My first experience with the V50 after 2 weeks is great. The 6gigs of RAM is enough (I don't play), the battery easily goes through the day (at least 1.5hrs of navigation), even can make 2 days if have no time to play around with it.

      Cameras are fine. Quality is OK, but as being a photographer, I have at least an RX100 around if real quality is needed.The zoom camera does not work in manual mode (this is frikkin annoying), video stabilization is major step forward.

      All in all it seems to be a great decision... If you thinking about being able to live w/o root... you can. I never thought to be able, but I can.

      Will come back later with more experiences.
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